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Old 10-27-2008, 06:47 PM   #1
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Default Pink connector next to fuse block - need some help

I'm in need of some help here.

A bit of background:
Car runs fine until put into reverse

Upon putting into reverse:
Reverse lights not operating
Fuse 16 would blow
Fans would kick on
Car would run rough
ECU would kick into limp mode

After this if you put it back into a forward gear:
The motor would smooth out
Fans would stay on
DCCD would flip out in a little bit (make sense since I believe that fuse has to do with DCCD as well).

From the harness off the tranny going into the firewall we found we had a short on the green wire with a black stripe.

We were able to determine that this was the power feed for reverse and should not be shorting. We determined this by checking all the other cars we have here that are STis and looking at the service manual.

So, we figured the wire rubbed and we began with the tranny harness and wires back to the firewall.

Well, no go on there.

So I pulled the fuseblock to find the other end. So much for that as there's something like six green wires with a black stripe (more on that in a bit), and they all ground out.

SO, we pulled the dash, and the heater core, and the supports, and the wiring plenum, and stripped off the electrical tape and loom.

Now, I would more than happily just run a replacement wire, but I didn't know where it ends up down by the fuse box, and if it did rub I was worried about what it rubbed against to short out so it was not an exercise in futility at that point.

Today I got enough of the wiring pulled apart to find out why there's something like 6 green wires with a black stripe. It's because the wire from the tranny runs all the way from the passenger side to right next to the fuse block, and then it's crimped to all the other green/black wires, and hidden by the tape!!!!

Dammit Subaru (there's the more on it later bit).

So I start tracing the individual wires, and I get to a pink connector. Now any time I ran into a connector on all of this I disconnected it, and toned out the wire to see if it was the problem. Every time no luck as it still grounded out.

This time, with the pink connector, it didn't ground out. Plug it back in, and beep. Unplug it, and no beep. Check the little round thingie it plugs into, and beep when I bridge the green/black with black ground.

Check the ones above and below it as they look similar and I get the same thing. So either they are all bad or the one in the middle is supposed to be different. OR I'm just way off base here, and I'm missing something.

Anyway, I'm looking at this round thing that the pink connector plugs into, and I have no clue what the hell it is. I've been staring at the service manual for so long that I think I know what it might be, but I'm not sure so I can't even order a replacement.

So, my question to you, the electrical experts, is this:
Just what the hell is this thing in the middle where the pink connector plugs in?

-Clint (who likes working on suspensions MUCH more)

Oh, and pics:


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Old 10-29-2008, 11:14 AM   #2
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looks to be a relay

generic relay assy

your 04 should take 3 of them

they are all the same pn.

see attached

this looks like it?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg relay-assy-impreza-round.JPG (40.4 KB, 23 views)
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Old 10-29-2008, 11:32 AM   #3
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yup definitely a relay. Assuming you were testing the correct wires (green with black stripe (hot), and black (ground), and the other 2 as the switching wires), the problem isn't with the relay. It's highly unlikely that all 3 relays would fail. It could be that the switching wires are powered on (could be caused by a ground) when they aren't suppose to be.
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Old 10-29-2008, 12:54 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gte123v View Post
yup definitely a relay. Assuming you were testing the correct wires (green with black stripe (hot), and black (ground), and the other 2 as the switching wires), the problem isn't with the relay. It's highly unlikely that all 3 relays would fail. It could be that the switching wires are powered on (could be caused by a ground) when they aren't suppose to be.
AH! I can check the switching wire easily enough since the whole thing is torn apart.
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Old 10-29-2008, 01:37 PM   #5
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More news -

according to the parts diagram that Jamie sent me all those relays are the same part number. So I took out the blue harness, and plugged in the pink harness into the lower relay.

It grounds out like it was doing before. I'm really sure it should not be grounding, but according to the wiring diagram I can't figure out how that's true since the green with black feeds one end of the coil, and the black, the other end of the coil, goes straight to ground.

I'm going to retest that connection on a car I have here and make absolutely sure that it should or should not ground.
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Old 10-29-2008, 02:39 PM   #6
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even more news -

The green/black that is the reverse switch power IS supposed to ground out. Dammit! This keeps getting more annoying.
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Old 10-29-2008, 02:44 PM   #7
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that means you get to keep tracing the other wires, fun fun!
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Old 10-29-2008, 04:38 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gte123v View Post
that means you get to keep tracing the other wires, fun fun!
yep yep.

Started again at the tranny, and worked our way back up.

Lucky for us we have a spare 6MT laying around so we were able to figure things out with some space.

I'm putting all this in in case someone runs into something like this in the future.

There are two switches that we are concerned about. Neutral position switch and reverse position switch.

When both are open (as in just sitting there) they have infinite resistance. This is consistant with the service manual.

When both are closed they are both showing about 30 ohms. This is inconsistent with the service manual. Strike one.

There are supposed to be crush washers under each switch. They do two things -
1) seal out crap
2) space them out correctly

On the NPS if you do not have the crush washer installed you cannot get the car into gear

On the RPS it will work and then "plunge" past the point of working. Not sure what they heck is up with that.

Now, on the NPS:
When the car is in neutral the switch is OPEN.
When the car is in ANY gear the switch is CLOSED.

On the RPS:
In all forward gears and neutral the switch is open.
In reverse, provided the crush washer is there it is closed.

Now, strike 2 on our car -
When in reverse the NPS is still open (this is bad), and the RPS is closed (this is good).

On to my question - can a bad NPS cause the problem that I am seeing? The RPS works fine (except for resistance), but the NPS (in addition to wrong resistance) is acting stupid.

Either way, I'll be ordering new switches to start from there. Jamie - order headed your way.
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Old 10-30-2008, 08:26 AM   #9
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What is the resistance suppose to be for the NPS and RPS when closed? Well, can you do this? With the car off, unhook the wires from the switches, then put the car in reverse. Connect the NPS wires together (without the switch, this will act as if the switch is closed) and RPS wires together (without the switch, this will act as if the switch is closed). Turn the car on, If that doesn't blow the fuse then it's probably the switches that are blown.
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Old 10-30-2008, 11:30 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gte123v View Post
What is the resistance suppose to be for the NPS and RPS when closed? Well, can you do this? With the car off, unhook the wires from the switches, then put the car in reverse. Connect the NPS wires together (without the switch, this will act as if the switch is closed) and RPS wires together (without the switch, this will act as if the switch is closed). Turn the car on, If that doesn't blow the fuse then it's probably the switches that are blown.
according to the service manual less than 1 ohm when closed.

Since they are both acting odd anyway I'm just going to replace both.
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Old 10-30-2008, 11:46 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turn in Concepts View Post
according to the service manual less than 1 ohm when closed.

Since they are both acting odd anyway I'm just going to replace both.
yeah, that sounds about right, although technically they should be 0 since after all, the switch is closed.
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Old 10-30-2008, 05:47 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by gte123v View Post
yeah, that sounds about right, although technically they should be 0 since after all, the switch is closed.
I would agree. now, here's the thing - I can find next to nothing on the NPS in the manual. Where does it go other than the ECU or does it ONLY go to the ECU. I can't find any info on the routing of it, and what it trigger.
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Old 10-30-2008, 10:42 PM   #13
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That's odd. What happens when you leave both switches unplugged and throw the car into reverse?
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Old 10-30-2008, 10:57 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gte123v View Post
That's odd. What happens when you leave both switches unplugged and throw the car into reverse?
No idea. I'll have to put the car back together enough to do that. I guess that means I'll have to reassemble the harness and put all the stuff under the dash back.
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Old 11-02-2008, 09:32 AM   #15
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you said both the sensors are getting 30 ohms or just the one NPS? If its just the NPS I think the answer to your dillema is obvious, replace that sensor and run a new wire to cut out the issue of the grounding wire altogether. The wire, it is a copper wire correct? I bet its starting to turn a bit green on the inside of the insulation from being out in the elements if it is a fairly high mileage car... if not... replace the wire anyways. Those two things are probably the only problems.
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Old 11-03-2008, 07:38 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by sorrowfulkiller View Post
you said both the sensors are getting 30 ohms or just the one NPS? If its just the NPS I think the answer to your dillema is obvious, replace that sensor and run a new wire to cut out the issue of the grounding wire altogether. The wire, it is a copper wire correct? I bet its starting to turn a bit green on the inside of the insulation from being out in the elements if it is a fairly high mileage car... if not... replace the wire anyways. Those two things are probably the only problems.
Both switches. I have new ones on the way.
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Old 11-03-2008, 07:54 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Turn in Concepts View Post
I would agree. now, here's the thing - I can find next to nothing on the NPS in the manual. Where does it go other than the ECU or does it ONLY go to the ECU. I can't find any info on the routing of it, and what it trigger.
It only goes to the ECU. I think one of the general thoughts is that it tells the ECU to adjust the idle when the car is in gear.
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Old 11-03-2008, 11:23 AM   #18
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I am looking things over here trying to understand the wiring layout and I am a little confused. Looking at the thumbnail picture that Subie Gal showed, is that the correct detail of the relay you are working on? The picture shows that relay is for the ABS system. Service data also shows the relay socket as red.

Edit: Relay confirmed by wire colors. The middle relay is for the ABS system. Are you sure you have the correct relay? Does pulling this relay prevent the fuse from blowing?

More info:
Service data shows the power to the relay coil comes from fuse 18, not 16. It also shows that the power goes to pin 7 of the Check Connector on a green/black wire. If fuse 18 is really is the correct fuse and wire that has the trouble on it then check to see if pin 7 of the Check Connector is shorted to ground.

Last edited by Cougar4; 11-03-2008 at 11:40 AM.
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Old 11-03-2008, 03:36 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cougar4 View Post
I am looking things over here trying to understand the wiring layout and I am a little confused. Looking at the thumbnail picture that Subie Gal showed, is that the correct detail of the relay you are working on? The picture shows that relay is for the ABS system. Service data also shows the relay socket as red.

Edit: Relay confirmed by wire colors. The middle relay is for the ABS system. Are you sure you have the correct relay? Does pulling this relay prevent the fuse from blowing?

More info:
Service data shows the power to the relay coil comes from fuse 18, not 16. It also shows that the power goes to pin 7 of the Check Connector on a green/black wire. If fuse 18 is really is the correct fuse and wire that has the trouble on it then check to see if pin 7 of the Check Connector is shorted to ground.
Mistyped - it's fuse 18.

I've been able to determine that the relay is working correctly, and that wire should short to ground (lesson to be learned - when checking all this stuff check all the pins yourself a second time after asking someone to check it the first time and they tell you the other cars don't ground out that way).

The green/black wire is ganged together with a bunch of others for power feed. Not even a harness, but crimp connector (nice one subaru). Right now leading theory is the switches on the tranny.

We won't be able to tell until I get it all back together and new switches into the tranny.
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Old 11-03-2008, 06:21 PM   #20
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Thanks for confirming the fuse as 18. It looks like you have a few areas to check out after looking at the service data. That fuse ties to FB-16 and FB-17. I provided a list of things that tie to those lines. Before you put things back together I suggest you first check to see if there is a shorting problem still on the line. If there is, try pulling the main fan relays to see if that clears the short.

You could replace the fuse with something like a brake light bulb to limit the current to the short. You can then try disconnecting connectors that you suspect are tie to the shorted leg. The bulb will dim when the short is removed form the line.

As far as the tranny switches go it looks like you are on the wrong track looking at those for the trouble.

FB-16
ABS relay
Back-up light switch (MT)
Check connector
Cruise control main switch
Cruise control module
Daytime running light control module
Daytime running light relay
High-beam relay (Daytime running light)
Inhibitor switch (AT)
Keyless entry control module
Security control module
Vehicle speed sensor (MT)
Wiper deicer relay
Wiper deicer timer

FB-17
Main fan relay (Non-turbo engine model)
Main fan relay-1 (Turbo engine model)
Main fan relay-2 (Turbo engine model)
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Old 11-04-2008, 08:08 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cougar4 View Post
Thanks for confirming the fuse as 18. It looks like you have a few areas to check out after looking at the service data. That fuse ties to FB-16 and FB-17. I provided a list of things that tie to those lines. Before you put things back together I suggest you first check to see if there is a shorting problem still on the line. If there is, try pulling the main fan relays to see if that clears the short.

You could replace the fuse with something like a brake light bulb to limit the current to the short. You can then try disconnecting connectors that you suspect are tie to the shorted leg. The bulb will dim when the short is removed form the line.

As far as the tranny switches go it looks like you are on the wrong track looking at those for the trouble.

FB-16
ABS relay
Back-up light switch (MT)
Check connector
Cruise control main switch
Cruise control module
Daytime running light control module
Daytime running light relay
High-beam relay (Daytime running light)
Inhibitor switch (AT)
Keyless entry control module
Security control module
Vehicle speed sensor (MT)
Wiper deicer relay
Wiper deicer timer

FB-17
Main fan relay (Non-turbo engine model)
Main fan relay-1 (Turbo engine model)
Main fan relay-2 (Turbo engine model)
fb-16 is fuse 18. you've gotta look really close at the service manual on the text on that one so the backup light switch (reverse position switch on the tranny) is on there.

the backup lights are ganged into power for all those. I'll post a picture.

Everything is as isolated as I can get it for testing. I've pulled the entire dash out, and split apart the harness to trace wires. I'll post a pic of that as well.
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Old 11-04-2008, 10:51 AM   #22
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Yes, FB-16 does tie to fuse #18, and so does FB-17 that feeds the cooling fan circuits. That is why I suggested removing the relays to them to see if that clears the shorting problem.

EDIT:
Ok. I just reread your original post and now see why you are focused on the reverse switch. I had forgotten the main details about the trouble. I'm on track now, somewhere down the line I got derailed. I will check things out about the reverse switch and the wiring after that.

Last edited by Cougar4; 11-04-2008 at 11:02 AM.
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Old 11-04-2008, 11:19 AM   #23
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Alright lets go here, now that I'm going the right way.

There is a connector (B12-a square 12 pin connector) that ties to the inhibitor switch. It has the blk/grn wire that you mentioned in earlier posts. Do you see that connector? If so, with the connector pulled apart and measuring the side that ties to the light, what is the ohm reading of pin 10, the brn/yel wire, compared to ground? If you don't see a short there then measure the other side of pin 10 , the blk/wht wire and see if you find a short there.

Last edited by Cougar4; 11-04-2008 at 11:27 AM.
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Old 11-04-2008, 08:31 PM   #24
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Alright lets go here, now that I'm going the right way.

There is a connector (B12-a square 12 pin connector) that ties to the inhibitor switch. It has the blk/grn wire that you mentioned in earlier posts. Do you see that connector? If so, with the connector pulled apart and measuring the side that ties to the light, what is the ohm reading of pin 10, the brn/yel wire, compared to ground? If you don't see a short there then measure the other side of pin 10 , the blk/wht wire and see if you find a short there.
No short there. I'll check brown/white.
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Old 11-04-2008, 10:27 PM   #25
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No short there. I'll check brown/white.
I think the wire color is black/white.
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