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Old 11-10-2008, 07:38 PM   #26
nhmtns
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Should have my AP later this week. Can't wait!
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Old 11-10-2008, 08:41 PM   #27
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Great info. Thanks for posting all the details. Two questions:

-Do you feel these cars are safe and knock-free in 11.8 AF range? I don't think the old cars like it up there on sub-94 octane fuel.

-How much boost did the '08 STI in your comparison have? Was it also a 92 octane tune?


Thanks
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Old 11-10-2008, 11:06 PM   #28
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I hope you guys go with a fmic and better BOV (plastic sux) Once you upgrade the IC and dyno it you should put some 100 octane in and dyno tune it again and see how much the 09 WRX safely has in it. I'm gonna guess 320whp 420wtq. I cant wait.... I call dibbs on Perrins stelth fmic

Last edited by RATROKT; 11-11-2008 at 12:07 AM.
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Old 11-11-2008, 04:34 AM   #29
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I am interested to see what happens when the tmic is applied, but this stage 2 set up seems to be a beast.
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Old 11-11-2008, 08:16 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redzfit View Post
I am interested to see what happens when the tmic is applied, but this stage 2 set up seems to be a beast.
Yeah I rather see all dyno runs with the upgrade TMIC 1st and then a FMIC.
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Old 11-11-2008, 10:29 AM   #31
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i want to see what this thing does at the track...any info on that yet?
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Old 11-11-2008, 10:49 PM   #32
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Informative post, great info thanks
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Old 11-12-2008, 01:51 AM   #33
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this is why Tim is the first and the best, all others are just followers. Surgeline is tops in quality and innovation.
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Old 11-12-2008, 01:53 AM   #34
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this is why Tim is the first and the best, all others are just followers. Surgeline is tops in quality and innovation. FTW
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Old 11-12-2008, 01:07 PM   #35
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hahaha edited just for the win
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Old 11-12-2008, 01:37 PM   #36
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The first few beta tester will get their AccessPORT any day now.

Testing another 09 on the dyno this thursday.... will keep everyone updated.

Thanks for the kind words.... Myself and Jeff S will continue to do this kind of posting.

Now that i have a home base at SurgeLine in Portland I'll have to time to make tune documentation a regular part of business. Its FUN!!!

Best regards and thanks
Tim Bailey
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Old 11-12-2008, 04:50 PM   #37
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wow stage 2 09 wrx is amazing!
I worry about that tranny holding that power though!
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Old 11-12-2008, 07:50 PM   #38
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I may be reading this wrong, but the '08 is a good deal torque-ier down low.

As a daily driver (and spending most of my time between 2500 and 4000 RPM) this is a good thing.

Am I just trying to make myself feel better, or are the power gains on the '09 not that big of a deal, especially if you aren't red-lining all the time?
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Old 11-12-2008, 07:52 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surgeline Tuning View Post
The first few beta tester will get their AccessPORT any day now.

Testing another 09 on the dyno this thursday.... will keep everyone updated.

Thanks for the kind words.... Myself and Jeff S will continue to do this kind of posting.

Now that i have a home base at SurgeLine in Portland I'll have to time to make tune documentation a regular part of business. Its FUN!!!

Best regards and thanks
Tim Bailey
This has probably been answered before but is the downpipe the same as previous years and does it bolt right on to the 09?
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Old 11-13-2008, 02:41 AM   #40
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sooooo... how much boost is the stage 2 running?
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Old 11-13-2008, 02:51 AM   #41
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judging by how loud the invidia cb was on my car compared to running it on my friend 08, I would say the dp is more free. It was super loud on my 09, tbe loud.
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Old 11-13-2008, 04:03 AM   #42
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Thanks for posting up a dyno of the 08 vs. the 09. That's exactly what I've been looking for. Too bad it gives me one more reason to get myself to a dealership and take an 09 for a spin myself.
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Old 11-13-2008, 10:19 AM   #43
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man comparing the stock wrx 265 to a 08+ sti

wrxs265
stock + SPT Catback
230 whp
238 wtq

08+ STI (accodring to HM)
230 whp
240 wtq

08+ STI with HM turboback
236 whp
243 wtq

08+ STI (3 week old dyno from another post)
225 whp
235 wtq

you have to wonder if the wrx265 = STI under the hood

what is even more scary is that the stage 2 numbers

wrx 265 (stage 2 tune with SPT exhust and downpipe on 92 (dyno))
281 whp
317 wtq

08 STI (stage 2 protune with HM turboback on 91 (dyno))
269 whp
297 wtq

though HM suggested their protune stage 2 should be
(91 octane)
270 whp
300 wtq
(93 octane)
280 whp
310 wtq

see whats wrong here? seems Dyno or suggested the stage 2 on the STI is equal if not below a stage 2 of the wrx265.

Either the result of this thread for the wrx hit the best tune ever, or basically all these results shows the wrx output wise is equal the STI. The main reason why subaru would underrate their wrx so much is probably the fact they dont want to cut into their STI sales or piss off the already pissed off STI crowd. Going forward I feel the STI will get a semi bump (320hp/310tq) bump for 2010 as a minimum but im sure everyone is screaming 350/375, otherwise there is no way they can maintain this kind of marketing for these two models. They should be fighting to compete with other manufactuers not within itself.

as a quick comment, the STI will and still be worth every penny over the 265 for what its worth because everyone component is nearly stronger and better. You probablly have push the 265 harder to hit your numbers where as it takes less stress on the STI to do the same. But still, for us STI only, this is a kick in the face until subaru decides its the STI's turn and I think it will but when is the question.

Last edited by GenMaster; 11-13-2008 at 10:25 AM.
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Old 11-13-2008, 10:24 AM   #44
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dyno #'s don't mean jack...what do each one of those cars do at the track? that's where the real display of power is shown. I am anxiuos to see what a stg2 cobb ots 09 does at the track. I am really likeing the 09 more and more each day.
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Old 11-13-2008, 10:44 AM   #45
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you realize those are 2 different dynos so your comparisons are invalid...
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Old 11-13-2008, 10:53 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chongl View Post
you realize those are 2 different dynos so your comparisons are invalid...
so whats your point, even if you just look at stock numbers. Eventually more and more dyno post from other tuners will post the smilar results that the wrx265 is indeed monstorous under the hood and these early results shows output is similar to the STI.

This made more sense since didnt car and driver came out the 265 hit 0-60 in 4.7 sec? you got to have similar output to the wheels. Yes you can dicker with the weight difference, tranny and such. But now they are so close, for straight line goers, these mean the world to them.

before the STI is like a totally difference machine, now with the new wrx, the STI feels like a wrx with plenty of aftermarket upgrades. The only difference is, the STI has warranty with the upgrades lol
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Old 11-13-2008, 01:15 PM   #47
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I dont understand have the sti and wrx can be equal...

Sure they share similar turbos but on the 09 wrx smaller ic and no avcs ftl..
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Old 11-13-2008, 01:59 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boostdog View Post
dyno #'s don't mean jack...what do each one of those cars do at the track? that's where the real display of power is shown. I am anxiuos to see what a stg2 cobb ots 09 does at the track. I am really likeing the 09 more and more each day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenMaster View Post
man comparing the stock wrx 265 to a 08+ sti

wrxs265
stock + SPT Catback
230 whp
238 wtq

you have to wonder if the wrx265 = STI under the hood

as a quick comment, the STI will and still be worth every penny over the 265 for what its worth because everyone component is nearly stronger and better. You probablly have push the 265 harder to hit your numbers where as it takes less stress on the STI to do the same. But still, for us STI only, this is a kick in the face until subaru decides its the STI's turn and I think it will but when is the question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenMaster View Post
so whats your point, even if you just look at stock numbers. Eventually more and more dyno post from other tuners will post the smilar results that the wrx265 is indeed monstorous under the hood and these early results shows output is similar to the STI.
before the STI is like a totally difference machine, now with the new wrx, the STI feels like a wrx with plenty of aftermarket upgrades. The only difference is, the STI has warranty with the upgrades lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcganz121 View Post
I dont understand have the sti and wrx can be equal...
Sure they share similar turbos but on the 09 wrx smaller ic and no avcs ftl..
**(First off, the 09 WRX, as with the 06, 07, and 08 WRX, has intake cam AVCS)

Clearly the comparison of unrelated dyno results is invalid to say the least. Take a better look at my post. I did in fact compare the 09 WRX against a stage 2 STI, both 07 and 08. I have published hundreds of dyno plots over the years, so there is a lot of good data you can reference. There are some obvious observations one can make.

First: The 09 WRX turbo appears to be either a VF43 or VF48 center section with a different compressor cover. It may also have a slightly different turbine housing. None the less, it is very close to the same as the 07 and/or 08 STI turbocharger. As a result, a fully tuned stage 2 setup should be similar. The cams are most likely the same as the 07 STI, and the engine block appears to be similar to previous WRX and/or STI blocks (not yet known if it is the higher CR or not).

Second: Given the turbo is pretty much the same, Stage 2 numbers on the dyno, with good airflow, should be about the same. There might be some efficiency differences in the transmission, but that would tend to favor the WRX over the STI. The TMIC is much much smaller on the WRX. On the street, if pushed hard, the WRX might loose a bit more efficiency, especially if you run the turbo hard. An upgraded TMIC on the WRX would probably be a good starting point.

Third: It is not like the WRX is now somehow a huge improvement over the previous WRXs with a larger turbo added. If you have an 08, simply purchase either an 09 turbo, or an aftermarket 16gish size turbo and you will be the same. This has been true for the WRXs since 2006. The only real change is that Subaru is now giving the upgraded turbo as stock. Very little else has changed in the power regard. The notion that you would incur the cost of trading in an 08 to get an 09 seems a mathematical error, given the small cost of upgrading the turbocharger.

There is no reason a well tuned 2006 WRX with a VF39/43 would be significantly slower then a well tuned 2006 STI. There are some differences in the head casting in 2007, but that does not materialize to huge gains with the smallish stock size turbo.

As for the effects of the AVCS setup on the 2008, take a look at the spool on the Stage 2 2008 post I made above. Sure enough, the 2008 STI does have better spool then we see on the 09 WRX. This might be due to the exhaust AVCS, or to some other factors (manifold layout, TMIC design, etc).

Some obvious and perhaps primary downsides of the 09 WRX over the 08/09 STI are two simple things: The 6MT transmission/diff, and the wider body.

Cheers

Jeff Sponaugle

Last edited by sponaugle; 11-13-2008 at 02:44 PM.
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Old 11-13-2008, 02:04 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luveno View Post
I may be reading this wrong, but the '08 is a good deal torque-ier down low.

As a daily driver (and spending most of my time between 2500 and 4000 RPM) this is a good thing.

Am I just trying to make myself feel better, or are the power gains on the '09 not that big of a deal, especially if you aren't red-lining all the time?
The 08 WRX, with its smaller turbo, does in fact spool faster. This is somewhat a given. The 08 WRX spools faster then the 08 STI. The 07 WRX spools faster then the 07 STI.

The 09 WRX has used a larger turbocharger, which trades some of the lower end torque for upper end hp. The comparison between this and the STI is almost the same. The STI has had greater hp in trade for lower low end torque (not peak torque btw).

Jeff Sponaugle
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Old 11-14-2008, 04:11 AM   #50
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well yesterday was thursday, what is the new news?
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