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Old 11-14-2008, 06:40 PM   #1
Scoob5555
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Talking 2009 Autox PAX

Rick Ruth has posted the PAX index for 2009:


2008 2009 Change
SS 0.852 0.856 0.004
AS 0.842 0.843 0.001
BS 0.832 0.835 0.003
CS 0.831 0.837 0.006
DS 0.812 0.819 0.007
ES 0.817 0.823 0.006
FS 0.821 0.833 0.012
GS 0.815 0.821 0.006
HS 0.792 0.802 0.010

Average Stock 0.006

ASP 0.862 0.866 0.004
BSP 0.858 0.859 0.001
CSP 0.856 0.862 0.006
DSP 0.843 0.845 0.002
ESP 0.841 0.846 0.005
FSP 0.833 0.831 -0.002

Average SP 0.003

STS 0.816 0.818 0.002
STS20.818 0.820 0.002
STX 0.820 0.822 0.002
STU 0.830 0.836 0.006
SM. 0.860 0.867 0.007
SM2 0.867 0.876 0.009

Average ST/SM 0.005

XP 0.882 0.882 0.000
BP 0.866 0.868 0.002
CP 0.864 0.864 0.000
DP 0.863 0.865 0.002
EP 0.861 0.861 0.000
FP 0.872 0.872 0.000
GP 0.847 0.841 -0.006

Average P 0.000

AM 1.000 1.000 0.000
BM 0.937 0.944 0.007
CM 0.904 0.907 0.003
DM 0.890 0.900 0.010
EM 0.887 0.894 0.007
FM 0.895 0.903 0.008
FSA0.946 0.954 0.008

Average M 0.007

F1250.948 0.957 0.009
FJA 0.855 0.860 0.005
FJB 0.828 0.832 0.004
FJC 0.770 0.778 0.008

Average Kart 0.007

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Old 11-14-2008, 07:06 PM   #2
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ESP has taken over DSP
CSP has taken over BSP
CS has taken over BS

The Strano-factor in FS is finally starting to show.

All in all, I'm satisfied with these changes.
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Old 11-14-2008, 07:09 PM   #3
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FS 0.821 0.833 0.012

Looks like the Shelby mucked things up there. Can't wait to see it in ESP trim.

Buck
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Old 11-14-2008, 07:34 PM   #4
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In ESP trim the Shelby loses it advantage over the other FS cars -- it might be a good ESP car, but it's hard to say. I'd rather build an '06 WRX TR or '09 WRX for ESP.
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Old 11-14-2008, 08:00 PM   #5
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Hmmmm FSP reduced, eh? hhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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Old 11-14-2008, 08:11 PM   #6
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Hmmmm FSP reduced, eh? hhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

<<<<<
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Old 11-14-2008, 08:41 PM   #7
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295's fit on a BH wagon, right?
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Old 11-14-2008, 09:01 PM   #8
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295's fit on a BH wagon, right?
Just apply Sawzall?
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Old 11-14-2008, 09:24 PM   #9
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I know the 275/35-15 Hoosier fits on a Hyundai Scoupe Turbo....
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Old 11-14-2008, 09:31 PM   #10
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I know the 275/35-15 Hoosier fits on a Hyundai Scoupe Turbo....
They also fit on a '91 Legacy AWD Turbo....I think that would be a killer FSP car. Stock 161hp/181ft-lbs closed-deck turbo, AWD + two factory LSD's. Well, it would also make a great HS car .
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Old 11-14-2008, 09:48 PM   #11
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STS, STS2, and STX barely budged, but STU passed BS? What new tires did STU get, that STX didn't?

I forget if STS and STS2 had a big jump last year.
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Old 11-14-2008, 10:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inmledoml23 View Post
STS, STS2, and STX barely budged, but STU passed BS? What new tires did STU get, that STX didn't?

I forget if STS and STS2 had a big jump last year.
The RX8 moved out... so STU should be faster than... BS..
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Old 11-14-2008, 10:17 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inmledoml23 View Post
STS, STS2, and STX barely budged, but STU passed BS? What new tires did STU get, that STX didn't?

I forget if STS and STS2 had a big jump last year.
All ST classes had a large jump last year. I don't think it is new tires I think that STU is getting better prepped cars and showing better speed now.
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Old 11-15-2008, 06:42 AM   #14
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All ST classes had a large jump last year. I don't think it is new tires I think that STU is getting better prepped cars and showing better speed now.
I haven't heard of any new methods for prep in STU, but anything is possible. If anything, we lost a little in the "exhaust clarification" issue. Accoriding the previous PAX and results from Nationals, STU was .9sec (two day total) off (slower) of where they should have been when compared to BS. And was 1.80sec off when compared to CS. I do, of course, understand that this was just one event, but the other events show just as large, if not greater gaps.

FWIW, this is the expected reaction (pathetic whining), when each year's new PAX comes out. I don't run any prosolo events, and I won the only PAX based event that I entered (Florida's Subaru Challenge). It is probably just a pride thing when us grown ups get upset, because someone tells us that we should be faster than we are. Rick Ruth does a good job.
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Old 11-15-2008, 08:25 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inmledoml23 View Post
STS, STS2, and STX barely budged, but STU passed BS? What new tires did STU get, that STX didn't?

I forget if STS and STS2 had a big jump last year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by moxnix View Post
All ST classes had a large jump last year. I don't think it is new tires I think that STU is getting better prepped cars and showing better speed now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by inmledoml23 View Post
I haven't heard of any new methods for prep in STU, but anything is possible. If anything, we lost a little in the "exhaust clarification" issue. Accoriding the previous PAX and results from Nationals, STU was .9sec (two day total) off (slower) of where they should have been when compared to BS. And was 1.80sec off when compared to CS. I do, of course, understand that this was just one event, but the other events show just as large, if not greater gaps.

FWIW, this is the expected reaction (pathetic whining), when each year's new PAX comes out. I don't run any prosolo events, and I won the only PAX based event that I entered (Florida's Subaru Challenge). It is probably just a pride thing when us grown ups get upset, because someone tells us that we should be faster than we are. Rick Ruth does a good job.

With Tire technology where it is today....ST* Classes should have had the same jump as FS...Not that the ST Classes are setup any different from there SP counter part...But the Tires make all the difference.......When a street tired Civic has FTD WITH Some High level National drivers attending on R comp Cars...and BEATS them RAW...something is wrong with the system...No WAY Street tired class car should beat a R comp'd comparable car in RAW time...EVER...With that said...course setup....car setup....driver....all that...I understand....when a Street tired car can sustain a higher G Load than a comparable R comp...then its gotten out of hand...

I know for a fact that some street tired vehicles running ST* Class pulls almost 1.5 G's around the skidder...account for Slip angle..and tire breakaway on given Top Street Tires...It is almost easier to predict what the car is going to do over a R Comp Car...

my 7 cents

Bill
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Old 11-15-2008, 09:22 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby South View Post
With Tire technology where it is today....ST* Classes should have had the same jump as FS...Not that the ST Classes are setup any different from there SP counter part...But the Tires make all the difference.......When a street tired Civic has FTD WITH Some High level National drivers attending on R comp Cars...and BEATS them RAW...something is wrong with the system...No WAY Street tired class car should beat a R comp'd comparable car in RAW time...EVER...With that said...course setup....car setup....driver....all that...I understand....when a Street tired car can sustain a higher G Load than a comparable R comp...then its gotten out of hand...

I know for a fact that some street tired vehicles running ST* Class pulls almost 1.5 G's around the skidder...account for Slip angle..and tire breakaway on given Top Street Tires...It is almost easier to predict what the car is going to do over a R Comp Car...

my 7 cents

Bill
The jump in PAX should be a direct result of an applied mathematical equation using the ratio between AM's times and the times of the class being evaluated. This can prove to be problematic, if AM, or the classes being adjusted, are not properly prepped and equally driven. But the arguement about the tires is quite valid, but I have witnessed STU cars (with the best tires) switching to r-comps and dropping 1.5 sec on a sub-40 sec course. And the Data aqui system showed the improved G's from grip. But still, none of this really matters, because course design and track conditions should still be factored. If STU got the same jump as FS, then it would be only .001 off of AS, and I can't see the top STU car touching Jason Collett in the S2000. STX seems to be too high according their results throughout the year (same sticky street tires BTW), but STS and STS2 definitely should have been increased ALOT more. I think FS's .012 jump would be only slightly too much for the civics, but maybe not.
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Old 11-15-2008, 10:06 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inmledoml23 View Post
Rick Ruth does a good job.
He attended our local event this past weekend. Thought that was pretty cool
BSP only went up .001. After all the crap about how fast the evos are, I was kind of surprised. Good for me locally, all my competition went up quite a bit more.
I hate Minis
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Old 11-15-2008, 10:43 AM   #18
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I hate Minis


I hate Minis too Off to DS you go!!!
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Old 11-15-2008, 10:56 AM   #19
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I hate Minis too Off to DS you go!!!
Screw that, DS has a lower pax than GS. Send them the BS.
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Old 11-15-2008, 10:59 AM   #20
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He must be mean the non-S.
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Old 11-15-2008, 01:41 PM   #21
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Old 11-15-2008, 05:59 PM   #22
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haha! GP = teh ep1k fayl!
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Old 11-15-2008, 06:07 PM   #23
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Bill, seriously, go back and read your post again. I love ya man, but damn, you're post reads like you learned from professor Cole. 1.5g's sustained on street tires in a skidpad? Really? If so, I must really be a god behind the wheel, cause my car wasn't even NEAR those levels of grip.

To put the difference between 1.1g's and 1.5g's into perspective, I pull mid .9's in my STS car on street tires in the wet. High .9's on the Hoosier wets on the DSP car. In the dry, the STS car was mid 1.1's, the DSP car mid/high 1.2's. Honest to god 1.5g's is simply impossible.
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Old 11-16-2008, 07:05 PM   #24
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As you all know, the PAX is calculated from the National Tour (and some larger regional events) each season. As such, a particularly well-prepped car in the hands of a great driver can effect the PAX. Now, a class with several well-prepped cars in the hands of great drivers can dramatically effect the PAX.

The general trend, which we have seen the last few years, is that nearly ALL classes are catching up with AM. I don't know what's up with FSP and GP??
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:43 PM   #25
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I whined last year, this year is just fine, STU should have been higher since it's inception. STU should be miles faster than the rest of ST, when they aren't it's because of driving and car setup, not because of performance potential.
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