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Old 11-19-2008, 04:30 PM   #1
Odyknuck
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Default Greddy Ultimate addons.

I recently bought a new Greddy E-Manage Ultimate off of Ebay. I will be using it on my 2000 RS 2.5 Turbo conversion. The unit came with a map sensor w/Harness, main Harness, and a Boost control solinoid valve with harness. The MAP sensor and the Boost solinoid harness have plugs on them for the option ports on the unit. My question is has anybody used the Boost solinoid and if so how was it setup in the E-manage

Update. The plug on the solinoild does not fit the option port on the GReddy if that helps.
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Last edited by Odyknuck; 11-21-2008 at 04:41 PM. Reason: Added Info
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Old 11-22-2008, 05:45 PM   #2
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Nobody has used the Boost control Solinoid?
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Old 11-23-2008, 02:32 AM   #3
master c
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i would imagine you could wire it into one of the aux. function maps and make it an on/off setup??? use it for a boost controller or something?? pics would be epic so we could see more exactly you were talking about
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Old 11-24-2008, 07:22 PM   #4
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You cannot use the boost solenoid w/o a controller. The ultimate doesn't control boost. You can however get 2 boost sensors running off the same source and route one to your gauge and one to the ultimate, thus giving you the ability to datalog and adjust for boost levels.
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Old 11-25-2008, 09:12 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by master c View Post
i would imagine you could wire it into one of the aux. function maps and make it an on/off setup??? use it for a boost controller or something?? pics would be epic so we could see more exactly you were talking about
This is what the solinoid looks like:http://www.mohdparts.com/emanage/solenoid.JPG

Based on info on the site it connects to a different controller. However I had read (dont remember what site) that you could utilize the Greddy MAP sensor and the Aux. Injector output on the Greddy to control boost.
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Old 01-06-2009, 04:26 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boostless View Post
You cannot use the boost solenoid w/o a controller. The ultimate doesn't control boost. You can however get 2 boost sensors running off the same source and route one to your gauge and one to the ultimate, thus giving you the ability to datalog and adjust for boost levels.
This is wrong you can control a bcs with the ultimate, I am currently doing so and I also have a solenoid that triggers the ecu to go into open loop whenever I go above 0 psi. You just have to hook a gm bcs to power and to one of the sub injector outputs or use an nvcs output. Then make a map of rpm vs boost for the subinjector/nvcs and mess with the duty cycles until it keeps the boost where you need it. I found several tutorials on google aswell.
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Old 01-07-2009, 12:40 PM   #7
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What rdodger said. I have the GM solenoid sitting at home waiting for me to wire it in. I was going to go for the MBC/Solenoid hybrid controller like posted on nasioc somewhere.

rdodger, do you have any more info on your open loop trigger anywhere? this seems to be my (and a lot of others) biggest hurdle with my 01 RS. MOST of the time it will go into open loop, but sometimes when boost starts to build under 3k it won't. I don't want to hijack, so you can PM me if you want.

Thanks,
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Old 01-07-2009, 01:20 PM   #8
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i am also interested in the open loop trigger as well! please post details or start a new thread describing your boost controller/open loop trigger setup
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Old 01-07-2009, 05:24 PM   #9
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I had PMed rdodger on this and and he suggested I share it in the thread.
I too am interested in the open loop trigger. Can the Greddy solinoid be used in lieu of the GM BCS?

A gm boost control solenoid or bcs is a common mod for sti and wrx's and a few simple searches will show you how to pipe it and where to buy it, one wire then goes directly to 12v and then the other connects to the sub injector ouput on the emu. Then enable the sub injector and make an rpm vs boost map for it. Leave it powered down until half your wastegate pressure then power it up just before full boost psi so it doesn't overshoot. A few tutorials can be found on google. You might want to post this in the thread aswell to help others.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Odyknuck
I read your post and was wondering if you could share exactly how you did it. Wiring and piping diagrams and Greddy maps etc. I am new to the Greddy so every bit helps. BTW what is the GM BCS and were can I get one. What I have now is a CB Performance mechanical single pipe Blast gate to control Boost.
Thanks
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Old 01-07-2009, 05:57 PM   #10
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here is the write up i found on the internet about making the emu control boost, but i still dont know how to make an "open loop trigger"

edit* - did more searching and found some things on open loop triggers.....this is for a different engine management system but im guessing that the emanage could easily be rigged to do this as well
-------------------------

Want open loop? Most cars will trigger open-loop when the TPS sensor exceeds 75-80% maximum. Trigger a STDP relay off the SMT's output, or a boost pressure switch. Run the normal TPS output through the normally closed side of the relay, and pass the TPS's supply voltage to the other side. (or whatever the maximum voltage the TPS can send the ECU - most cars the ECU sends the TPS & load sensor power so the ECU can meter it & adjust to voltage changes of the system)
The relay flips, the TPS signal maxes out - the ECU jumps to open loop.


-------------------------------------
How to use Emanage Ultimate as an Electronic Boost Controller

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:


Both the blue and ultimate series emanage offers subinjector control for the purpose of adding an additional fuel injector. Majority of us do not use this feature, and in this article I'll use it for a different purpose. If you already have the greddy boost pressure sensor then you can use the greddy subinjector map as an electronic boost controller map. Blue emanage owners may have to purchase additional wiring.

Parts Needed:

- GM Boost Solenoid (part # 1997152) $10.32 at www.gmpartsdirect.com
- Solenoid Connector (part # 15305891 $18.79 at www.gmpartsdirect.com

I picked up a couple GM solenoid connectors at a local pick and pull junk yard for free. Take your boost solenoid with you to the junk yard and visit some GM cars. Some GM cars use this connector as their intake temperature sensor connector or coolant temperature sensor connector. I don't understand how they could charge so much for a simple connector. And no, I didn't make note as to which vehicles I got them off of.

Electrical Installation:

Since the GM Boost solenoid is non-polarized, it doesn't matter which end of the wire gets ground and which wire gets 12 volts. My wire had one red lead and one blue lead, so I used the red lead for 12 volts, and the blue lead for the emanage ground. If you actually purchased the GM solenoid connector, you'll have two white wires as leads. Wire up the GM boost solenoid as indicated in my diagram.

Vacuum hose installation:

The GM Boost solenoid has three vacuum nipples with one nipple attached to a foam filter. Leave that filter on. The adjacent nipple to the foam should be connected to your wastegates. The remaining nipple should be connected to your Y-pipe, as illustrated in my diagram. Don't reverse the solenoid.

Location:

My GM Boost solenoid fit well near the factory boost solenoid location.

Usage:

100% duty cycle means maximum boost. 0% duty cycle means lowest boost possible (wastegate pressure). The GM Boost solenoid with no power, by default is normally open. This is a good thing, in the event of a failure you will run only wastegate pressure (low boost). You could also use other high speed solenoids in place of the GM Boost solenoid. Be sure to select one that is normally open for safety reasons.

Simulated MBC:

If you're still using a MBC, you can simulate it pretty well with this setup. Just enter the same duty cycle number everywhere on the map. And now you've got a simulated MBC. You'll have no idea how much boost you'll make just like a real MBC. You have to drive your car and check out the results. If you didn't make enough boost, you would turn your MBC knob to make the air passage smaller. Similarly on the GM Boost solenoid, you need to increase the duty cycle to reduce the air passage. This process involves a lot of trial and error until you've reached your goal. What sucks about a MBC is you gotta pop your hood open, undo your seat belt, climb out of the car, adjust the MBC knob, close the hood, climb into the car, put your seatbelt back on and make another run each time. With this simulated MBC, you just reach over to your notebook and change the duty cycle. Enjoy your new simulated MBC.

Spoolup:

The previous example sacrifices spoolup a little bit. Suppose you want a target boost of 17psi. Ideally, you would want the solenoid to be fully closed (100% duty cycle) anything below 17psi for maximum spoolup. But in reality, this control system cannot react that quickly and would overshoot easily. What you should do is keep the wastegate 100% closed a few psi before reaching your target. In my example, I chose 11 psi, but you can experiment to see what works best for you.



Noise:

The GM Boost solenoid is rather noisy especially when you're at idle or crusing around and at WOT you probably won't even hear it over the engine noise. There's no point in over working your solenoid when you're below wastegate pressure. Since the TD04 wastegates open around 6 psi, you could theoritically keep the solenoid turned off during this time. But wastegates don't swing open exactly at 6 psi either, they slowly creep open as they approach closer to their target psi. Anything below 4psi and under I keep the solenoid turn off (0% duty cycle). Having 0% duty cycle here won't hurt spoolup. As you can see in my map, at 5 psi I fully close the solenoid before reaching the wastegate critical pressure of 6psi. I don't want the wastegates to prematurely open as we approach it.



Duty cycle:

As you can see in my map, after 5000 rpms I had to tweak the duty cycle. If your boost falls off, increase the duty cycle. If your boost overshoots, decrease the duty cycle.



Safety:

In my map, anything above 18 psi has 0% duty cycle (wastegate pressure). So if you accidently overshoot, you'll go back to wastegate pressure. This is something your everyday MBC can't do. Protect your engine from overboost.



Adjust your boost:

Now suppose you want to increase your boost, ie. from 17 to 18 psi. Just copy all the cells from 12psi through 17psi and copy them into the new location of 13psi through 18 psi. And copy 100% duty cycle on the 12 psi row to keep the wastagate closed for maximum spoolup. Eventually when you increase the psi a lot more, you'll have to retweak the duty cycle again.

Other solenoids:
For fun, I tried the stock boost solenoid. I could only get about 12 psi, and the boost fell off. Not worth persuing.

Conclusion:

Well, there you have it, an affordable electronic boost controller that can be made roughly for the same price as a MBC. My old AEM EMS uses this same strategy to control the GM Boost solenoid, but also offered the option of using two feedback circuits. But one thing I do like better on the ultimate is the ability to change the PSI scale and RPM scale independantly from the fuel map scale. I couldn't get this fine PSI increments on the AEM EMS without screwing up my fuel map scale.



----------------------

Last edited by master c; 01-07-2009 at 06:27 PM.
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Old 01-08-2009, 09:13 PM   #11
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My External adjustable Mechanical Blastgate is Normally closed, meaning it requires Boost pressure to open it to dump the exhaust gas. The above description would not work. The GM solinoid is N.O. and my blastgate would never open because it would not see pressure. Also I would have to set the mechanaical set point high and control below that setting. Or I am missing something here.
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Old 01-09-2009, 05:16 AM   #12
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i would go normally open with a gm boost solenoid like they said because its a safer setup if it fails...
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Old 01-11-2009, 03:14 PM   #13
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Ok you guys want info on the open loop trigger it isn't too complicated and uses the nvcs output and an emu map to trigger whenever above 0psi. You'll need a basic knowledge of electronics to do this. On an '01 i'm not sure if wot triggers open loop, a scanner and a wot pull will tell you that. In my 99 anytime the throttle goes above 95% the car enters open loop. So what we need to do is trick the ecu into thinking that the tps is at wot and the ecu engages open loop. The tps functions on 0 to 5 volts so you need a way to output 5v on command and trick the ecu. To do this you make a simple voltage divider from some resisters to try and get around 4.6 to 4.8v (seach wikipedia for voltage divider) and then use a double pole relay triggered from the nvcs to normally let the tps pass through, then when in boost the relay trips and switches to disconnect the real tps and connect the 4.6-4.8v souce. And viola open loop on command
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Old 01-11-2009, 05:24 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdodger View Post
Ok you guys want info on the open loop trigger it isn't too complicated and uses the nvcs output and an emu map to trigger whenever above 0psi. You'll need a basic knowledge of electronics to do this. On an '01 i'm not sure if wot triggers open loop, a scanner and a wot pull will tell you that. In my 99 anytime the throttle goes above 95% the car enters open loop. So what we need to do is trick the ecu into thinking that the tps is at wot and the ecu engages open loop. The tps functions on 0 to 5 volts so you need a way to output 5v on command and trick the ecu. To do this you make a simple voltage divider from some resisters to try and get around 4.6 to 4.8v (seach wikipedia for voltage divider) and then use a double pole relay triggered from the nvcs to normally let the tps pass through, then when in boost the relay trips and switches to disconnect the real tps and connect the 4.6-4.8v souce. And viola open loop on command
very nice! i had an idea very similar to that - i will go experiment this should help smooth the fuel trims out so learn around is a non issue. Thanks!
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Old 01-16-2009, 01:32 AM   #15
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If any of you have a 4eat turbo 2.5RS, you're going to have to split the 4eat tps signal wire off prior to the voltage pullup to avoid a downshift upon hitting boost. You will need to put a diode between the ecu and the "real" tps to keep the voltage pullup from going to the transmission.

Any of you running a J&S safeguard already have a 5v pullup on the TPS sensor above 0psi - that is if you wired it up.

The downside to doing this is that your map has to take into account that you will no longer be able to see true TPS readings, unless, again you do that same thing as with the automatic transmission and send the "real" TPS to the emanage and the pulled up 5v TPS with dioide to the ecu.

I wouldn't recommend a relay as they are prone to failure and at the nano second level you get a 0v tps signal. I would recommend a pullup resistor on the TPS line (I believe that's what I used at one point, now I used the J&S safeguard with emanage ultimate - double duty).

I've been doing this for 5 years - no worries.

Last edited by Joncas; 01-16-2009 at 01:42 AM.
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Old 01-16-2009, 09:29 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joncas View Post
If any of you have a 4eat turbo 2.5RS, you're going to have to split the 4eat tps signal wire off prior to the voltage pullup to avoid a downshift upon hitting boost. You will need to put a diode between the ecu and the "real" tps to keep the voltage pullup from going to the transmission.

Any of you running a J&S safeguard already have a 5v pullup on the TPS sensor above 0psi - that is if you wired it up.

The downside to doing this is that your map has to take into account that you will no longer be able to see true TPS readings, unless, again you do that same thing as with the automatic transmission and send the "real" TPS to the emanage and the pulled up 5v TPS with dioide to the ecu.

I wouldn't recommend a relay as they are prone to failure and at the nano second level you get a 0v tps signal. I would recommend a pullup resistor on the TPS line (I believe that's what I used at one point, now I used the J&S safeguard with emanage ultimate - double duty).

I've been doing this for 5 years - no worries.
How about a wiring diagram and the resister value in Ohms.
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