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Old 04-10-2010, 11:49 PM   #251
mpsti05
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^OH NO! I hope the driver and car are ok
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Old 04-11-2010, 08:13 AM   #252
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Same, hope everyone is ok.
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Old 04-11-2010, 12:18 PM   #253
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i hope Geoff and his car are ok as well. Yikes.

Lots of good posts in the last day--Martin, Juan, TD and Phatron all have good points.

I'm just hoping the data keeps rolling in on all of these setups, including the one Geoff is testing, and that k series in BW's new catalog. There's probably a "golden" turbo in there somewhere--heck, the one being tested might be it (sounds promising).

I'm going to try and max out this TS t3 s200 first (not a bullseye). I ran out of fuel at 25psi, but the dyno chart is already pretty ridiculous for a street/occasional strip car. I doubt I can get much more than ~ 600 Mustang out of it though (I'll learn more about this Airboy logging and post up all of my findings once I max it out).

I'll shut it about smaller TS setups for now. Now who's going to try that billet k29?!?
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Old 04-11-2010, 01:11 PM   #254
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Hope geoff is ok.... Garage do you have a tactrix cable and do logs, if you do all you do is plug your log wot from 2000 to your redline into the airboy spreadsheet adjust it to your make , weight and tire size , weather and elevation ( use only 100% wot data ) and the spreedsheet will calculate your time/rpm into airboy numbers .... It's pretty sick!! kinda reads somewhere inbetween a dyno dynamics with no cf and I mustang IMO ....airboy spreedsheet is available for download @ romraider.... If you can log it would be sweet to see some of your ts setup logs!
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Old 04-11-2010, 01:58 PM   #255
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http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&postcount=130

Apparently wasn't bad at all, and they finished the race before the fire.
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Old 04-11-2010, 03:23 PM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleBlueGT View Post
I don't remember all the details. It is on IWSTI, his user-name is Daemon (I think), copying the URL doesn't work for their journals.

Search for it and read his journal, all the info is there.

Really interesting thread, I scan the whole journal and quoted the most important posts. It seem that he always run it the car on pure 93 oct, here is the interesting post. T3 30R and 35R and the Full-Race kit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daemon View Post
Here is a quick shot of one of my recent pulls while tuning versus the GT30R plot I posted a while back. I'm still tweaking a bit and have had pulls with the torque at peak a bit earlier than in this one (around 4500 RPM) and the value a little higher, but overall I'm in the ballpark number-wise of where I think I'll finish. I've gained roughly 40whp and 25wtq, give or take. I think when I'm done it might be more like 40wtq with power pulling away from the GT30R at 4000 RPM instead of the 4500 RPM shown here.

The more interesting thing to note and the reason I'm posting this plot is that at no time is this GT35R any less powerful than the GT30R. I haven't lost anything at the low end and the top end pulls away. This either means my tuning sucks in general, or Geoff at Full Race was right about the characteristics of these turbos and his manifolds (and confirms why they stopped selling the GT30R with their kits). There is always that possibility of both being the case.

My goal was always +40whp on pump and I'd be happy. Looks like I'm going to get that. Now on meth or race gas or E85...

I have more tuning to do and need to start seeing what I can get out of 2nd and 3rd gears.


Here is the boost plot of his car vs Modaddict crawford 35r with a .82AR
Quote:
Originally Posted by daemon View Post
Ask and (sometimes) you shall receive.







Cool. Start around 2000 RPM also, just to make sure that isn't what is giving me the leg up in these particular plots.
Quote:
Originally Posted by daemon View Post
I'll take a closer look at it tomorrow. I had the 0.78 on my GT3076R and this turbine housing is physically larger. There is a pic on post #282 (http://www.iwsti.com/forums/2255497-post282.html) although you can't read the numbers in the photo.

Edit: Here are the photos I have online...

GT3076R with the 0.78 turbine.


Current GT35R (photo from post #282)...
Quote:
Originally Posted by daemon View Post
I looked a little bit at the turbine housing, but the place where the A/R is marked is very hard to see on my car the way it is installed. With a mirror, a flashlight, and some contortion, it looks like it is marked 1.08 for the A/R. The standard 1.06 from Garrett is the T4, so there is no reason my T3 should have to be 1.06.

I started poking around to see if there really was a 1.08 A/R divided housing from Garrett to see if what I thought I saw made any sense and I have found some references to a 1.08 housing.

Here are a few of the random references off the Net (both quotes off different forums/conversations)...

"You can get some .82 and 1.08 housings. But you can't get them in the USA unless you know the right people!"

"Now we just need a GT35R .78 and 1.08 Twin Scroll setup to compare to the .63 and .82 Single Scrolls."
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Old 04-11-2010, 07:06 PM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 06rexwagon View Post
My buddy is at the race now and says that Geoff's car actually caught fire. He was running the new prototype turbo. Too bad he didn't get to finish the race from what I hear.
not correct, we DID finish the race, and got 2nd in AWD. GST got 1st.

the fire occured after the race ws over, the aluminum exhaust cracked and melted a power steering line, causing p/s fluid to catch fire. It was just an oil fire under the car. The engine bay, fuel system and driver were perfectly fine. The engine runs perfectly, i cleaned the car up and drove it into the shop. nothing a good cleanup wont fix - and i will never use an aluminum exhaust again.
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Old 04-11-2010, 07:10 PM   #258
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Glad to hear everyone (and the car) made it out ok.
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Old 04-11-2010, 07:13 PM   #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Full-Race Geoff View Post
not correct, we DID finish the race, and got 2nd in AWD. GST got 1st.

the fire occured after the race ws over, the aluminum exhaust cracked and melted a power steering line, causing p/s fluid to catch fire. It was just an oil fire under the car. The engine bay, fuel system and driver were perfectly fine. The engine runs perfectly, i cleaned the car up and drove it into the shop. nothing a good cleanup wont fix - and i will never use an aluminum exhaust again.
yep, I was wrong, and saw it posted in your other thread. Glad that everything is ok. Now take the time that you would have spent fixing your car to rush the build on my twinscroll . Seriously though, good job finishing 2nd and I'm glad no one was hurt.
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Old 04-11-2010, 07:45 PM   #260
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thanks guys!! the driver is a great friend of mine and completely kept his cool under pressure.

cameron -- ill get with you on tuesday, i have an idea for you to test out!
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Old 04-11-2010, 10:24 PM   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Full-Race Geoff View Post
thanks guys!! the driver is a great friend of mine and completely kept his cool under pressure.

cameron -- ill get with you on tuesday, i have an idea for you to test out!
Cool I'll email you my # again.
<-- Excited.
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Old 04-12-2010, 12:58 PM   #262
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Geoff,

Any chance you can already post up the dyno sheet from the tuner shoot-out event of the S300P?

TIA,
Walter
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Old 04-12-2010, 08:32 PM   #263
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Hi we have actually install a few set of full race kit with Bw s300 and bulleye s362 twinscroll and GT4088.the main difference is the throttle respond,spool up and end power.BW turbo feels so much better to drive around town.

These are the comment from our customer,on the s362 the car is constanly on boost and on a stock 2.5 sti boosting at 1.3 bar as the dw750cc injectors are max out we manage to get 400whp with very conservative timing,Targeted air fuel is 11.2.

The garatt Gt4088 kit we did was not as impressive.The motor was build but aside from the power the respond was alot worst compare to the s300 with an 1.0 ar. boosting at 1.7 bar we manage to get 560whp on pump gas no meth with the s300 kit.

Geoff is not kidding bout how well the turbo is,prob is that its quite hard to get ur hand on a unit of bw now.
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Old 04-12-2010, 09:19 PM   #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
Really interesting thread, I scan the whole journal and quoted the most important posts. It seem that he always run it the car on pure 93 oct, here is the interesting post. T3 30R and 35R and the Full-Race kit.

Here is the boost plot of his car vs Modaddict crawford 35r with a .82AR
well....one thing to note on those per gear logs is that modaddict started his pulls at a later rpm......and if you're trying to compare transient boost that just throws the whole comparo out the window.

i mean modaddicts pull starts 600rpm later....and guess what...he hits 20psi 600rpm later.

you cant always take graphs at face value.

IMO, based on the shape of the per gear plots, modaddicts curve would be above daemons had the pulls been started at the same time.
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Old 04-12-2010, 09:30 PM   #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
well....one thing to note on those per gear logs is that modaddict started his pulls at a later rpm......and if you're trying to compare transient boost that just throws the whole comparo out the window.

i mean modaddicts pull starts 600rpm later....and guess what...he hits 20psi 600rpm later.

you cant always take graphs at face value.

IMO, based on the shape of the per gear plots, modaddicts curve would be above daemons had the pulls been started at the same time.
I don't understand what you mean, if the other turbo spools faster, wouldn't the other turbo caught up to the other turbo?

For example if go outside right now and do two 3rd gear pull, one will start at 1000RPM and the other one at 2000RPM, I am pretty sure the two curves would be right on top of each other. But one of the curves will have extra useless data from 1000-2000RPM.

I guess I am just confused about what you are trying to say, please explain
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Old 04-12-2010, 09:34 PM   #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
well....one thing to note on those per gear logs is that modaddict started his pulls at a later rpm......and if you're trying to compare transient boost that just throws the whole comparo out the window.

i mean modaddicts pull starts 600rpm later....and guess what...he hits 20psi 600rpm later.

you cant always take graphs at face value.

IMO, based on the shape of the per gear plots, modaddicts curve would be above daemons had the pulls been started at the same time.
I disagree. Where you start a pull does have an affect on what rpm you see X amount of boost at, but when it is started sufficiently low enough in the rev range, it makes very little difference:



If the runs where started at 4000 rpm (where boost is really ramping up fast) then yes I would agree, but it isn't, the runs where both started at an rpm sufficiently below boost threshold to not make much difference.

Look how at 3000 rpm they are almost even. I give you maybe 200-250 rpm at best. I also drove the car in question. It felt like most 30Rs.
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Old 04-12-2010, 09:36 PM   #267
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no...thats not how it would be.

starting a pull later will always show later spool. its probably hard for you to imagine being on the vf39 and how your boost is instaneous.

just think about it like this....modaddict hits peak boost at 4600rpm....if he gets to 4600rpm then gets off the throttle and cruises at 4600rpm out of boost....then slams the gas the boost wont be instantly at 23 psi. The turbine wheel is a mechical device driven by exhaust gases.....it takes time to spin it up.

My car is on a spare right now....but im gonna go do 2 logs to prove it.
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Old 04-12-2010, 09:55 PM   #268
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I will save you the time. Two logs done on same stretch of road with about 1 min of time in between:



Image won't load, (in China right now, they block lots of stuff).

But basically, two logs start 308 rpm apart (68hta, not a VF39) but when they reach 19 psi they are about 150 rpm off.

I know from experience that the farther out of boost threshold you start the run, the less of a difference it makes. For my turbo I hit 19 psi at about 3100 rpm, so 2200 and 2500 rpm are pretty close to that threshold, but the lower I start the run (like 1500 rpm vs 2000 rpm) the less of a difference it makes.

I know it makes a difference, just showing how that difference does not stay even (run started 600 sooner, and boost reached 600 sooner), but the gap narrows.
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Old 04-12-2010, 10:01 PM   #269
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I've hit 20+psi before 3000 rpm on my atp 30r in 5th gear starting from 2000rpm =)

I actually got it to surge pretty good with whoof whoof whoof noises. I just laughed lol

Oh and that was with stock STi TMIC. With front mount I can't get it to do that anymore. So intake volume matters!
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Old 04-12-2010, 10:18 PM   #270
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so geoff what is the proper name for the 177283?? thats what i have on my car. i am running single scroll and the .91 was waaaay too laggy so i called up bullseye and had him cut a t3 .7 a/r for me and i remember him mentioning that it had to be cut for a s366 turbine wheel. the results were fantastic.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1948753
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Old 04-12-2010, 10:19 PM   #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleBlueGT View Post
I give you maybe 200-250 rpm at best. I also drove the car in question. It felt like most 30Rs.
i eat my words.

mine was 300rpm. better than i remember. i thought the gap was more substantial.

but still...in this case in which you're comparing the transient response it just cut the gap in half.
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Old 04-12-2010, 11:06 PM   #272
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If I get a chance this weekend I'll do some logs at a lower RPM.

It will be really interesting.....................since I haven't logged my car in a LONG time.....like a year?

I wonder if I have any boost leaks or if the logs change much since my OEM engine has more miles on it?

I'll try, but not going to put $ on it.
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Old 04-13-2010, 05:09 PM   #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertical_Lab View Post
Hi we have actually install a few set of full race kit with Bw s300 and bulleye s362 twinscroll and GT4088.the main difference is the throttle respond,spool up and end power.BW turbo feels so much better to drive around town.

These are the comment from our customer,on the s362 the car is constanly on boost and on a stock 2.5 sti boosting at 1.3 bar as the dw750cc injectors are max out we manage to get 400whp with very conservative timing,Targeted air fuel is 11.2.

The garatt Gt4088 kit we did was not as impressive.The motor was build but aside from the power the respond was alot worst compare to the s300 with an 1.0 ar. boosting at 1.7 bar we manage to get 560whp on pump gas no meth with the s300 kit.

Geoff is not kidding bout how well the turbo is,prob is that its quite hard to get ur hand on a unit of bw now.
Did you guys run any of the kits on race gas?
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Old 04-14-2010, 01:51 AM   #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenMotors View Post
Did you guys run any of the kits on race gas?

So far we have not start tuning with race gas but will be doing so for the s300 soon. Configuration are as below

Cosworth head,darton sleeve 2.5 block with cp piston and manly rod.simple build.
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Old 04-14-2010, 03:13 AM   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
i eat my words.

mine was 300rpm. better than i remember. i thought the gap was more substantial.

but still...in this case in which you're comparing the transient response it just cut the gap in half.
Usually if you plot out two runs starting at different rpm (same car, same turbo...) the lines will tend to go towards each other. So if they start 1000 rpm apart, then X psi will likely be 500 rpm apart.

At any rate, I like when people list all things about the run (temp, elevation, fuel since E85 makes a spool difference), and start at 2000 rpm just to keep everything even.
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