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Old 02-03-2009, 07:31 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Full-Race Geoff View Post
sorry for the delay. Rather than test with our Gen1 kit, we decided to do push back the testing and do it with our Gen2 kit on yimisport's 08 STI.

the results will be ALLL over this site and iwsti, you guys are going to love what we have in store for the next few months

< hint - working on a repeat of this: http://www.full-race.com/modified08/ >

well doesn't that kind of make a huge difference to the rest of the non dual AVCS EJ owners.
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Old 02-03-2009, 06:26 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by c'dalerider View Post
I just dont think the results would/WILL be the same in the Subaru "configuration". The Evo configuration makes for 'easier' spool..etc. Its sweetness. Suby results may be close, but i doubt the same. However, having gone through many turbos myself and friends cars, I have always thought that the turbos having journal bearings VS BB (gt35r..etc) were minimaly defined in those ways, IMO. No test's, just IMO.
i respectfully disagree, we have tested, sold and developed more turbo combinations than almost any other private company in this industry. In almost every application we have found that a turbo is a turbo, and for the most part there are some "sweet" combinations that simply work. Yes, there are exceptions to every rule but in the mid to large twinscroll stuff the behavior seems to be very similar for any modern 16valve high flow 4 cyl engine 1.8L - 2.6L and 6 cyl from 2.0 to 3.5L

Quote:
Originally Posted by socalLGT View Post
Indeed we are Of course, we are looking at going with something a wee bit bigger than a GT35R
its will be fun, cant wait we're working on an evo borgwarner test right now!
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Old 02-03-2009, 07:42 PM   #53
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^ did you get my email?
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Old 02-03-2009, 08:24 PM   #54
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Very Convincing! Turbo's are hard to choose!
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Old 02-03-2009, 09:42 PM   #55
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^ did you get my email?
yes, sorry i will get caught up on emails all day tomorrow, got to finish some work first! late night for me tonite
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Old 04-09-2009, 12:26 PM   #56
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So between the ball bearing gt35r and the BW which has better transient response, partial throttle boost threshold and most importantly the feel of the turbo as it transitions in and out of boost? What are the performance differences of using dual 44mm tial wg or dual mv-s 38mm wg. I have a built 2.5 motor 100mm bore, brian crower 272 cams, upgraded valve train.

Last edited by methaddict; 06-11-2009 at 01:29 AM.
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Old 04-13-2009, 09:03 PM   #57
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these are all excellent questions. to answer your questions

1) better transient response will be found with the 1.06 a/r gt35R. it is a smaller turbo than the BW, so it wont make as much top end power but it will spool faster and will respond faster

2) The tial MVS wg is the only way to go for a subaru, we are very happy these are now available and wouldnt recommend the 44mm unless its a huge turbo drag race application. for time attack and street the MVS is 100% the one to use
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Old 04-14-2009, 01:45 AM   #58
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From your test posted last year in November.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Full-Race Geoff View Post
the results:
The owner noted that on the street the BW feels noticeably better in and out of boost particulary the transients like between gearshifts. also now there is zero surge. it has better fitment, and is easier to work on than the ball bearing garrett center section. and best of all it sounds muuch cooler
So now the GT turbo is the one for response?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Full-Race Geoff View Post
these are all excellent questions. to answer your questions

1) better transient response will be found with the 1.06 a/r gt35R. it is a smaller turbo than the BW, so it wont make as much top end power but it will spool faster and will respond faster

2) The tial MVS wg is the only way to go for a subaru, we are very happy these are now available and wouldnt recommend the 44mm unless its a huge turbo drag race application. for time attack and street the MVS is 100% the one to use
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Old 04-14-2009, 12:35 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alcoolaid View Post
From your test posted last year in November.


So now the GT turbo is the one for response?

Alcoolaid:

What were the specs of the turbos the owner was comparing?

Was the original test on a Subaru?
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Old 04-14-2009, 02:12 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jghall00 View Post
Alcoolaid:

What were the specs of the turbos the owner was comparing?

Was the original test on a Subaru?
It's all in post #1 of this thread.
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Old 04-14-2009, 02:16 PM   #61
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i am basing response purely on the polar moment of inertia. The 35R's turbine is 68mm, quite a bit lower polar moment than the BW 75mm turbine. "feel" is something that is different from every car to every engine and tune. we did extremely well in a full-weight street car at the modified time attack last weekend (2 days ago), using an almost stock 08 sti engine and BW 83-75... keeping up with 2 of the fastest and most develeopd track only subarus (gst and crawford) in a full interior, a/c, p/s, navi, dvd etc 08 sti streetcar is not an easy feat

Last edited by Full-Race Geoff; 04-14-2009 at 03:45 PM.
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Old 06-10-2009, 06:34 PM   #62
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Thanks for helping make a decision on the turbo Geoff. BTW with the mv-s 38mm what size springs would you use?

Last edited by methaddict; 06-11-2009 at 01:29 AM.
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Old 06-10-2009, 08:36 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Full-Race Geoff View Post
sorry for the delay. Rather than test with our Gen1 kit, we decided to do push back the testing and do it with our Gen2 kit on yimisport's 08 STI.

the results will be ALLL over this site and iwsti, you guys are going to love what we have in store for the next few months

< hint - working on a repeat of this: http://www.full-race.com/modified08/ >
Is BW planning on making SS v band housings like garret? Id like to see your ej results, but I will not read this rag of a magizine. Their numbers are inflated and they straight out lye.
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Old 06-10-2009, 10:44 PM   #64
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Thanks for helping make a decision on the turbo Geoff. BTW with the msv 38mm what size springs would you use?
glad to know i helped

Im a huge fan of the 83-75, and after realizing we SHOULD have used the 1.00 a/r on yimisport's STI instead of the too-big-and-laggy 1.10 a/r im even more impressed.. the 1.00 really gives the 35R 1.06 a run for its money... FWIW i run the BWs on my personal cars, and I can get any turbo i want.

also, we can special order the 83-75 or 88-75 with a 90-degree-outlet compressor housing that makes charge piping soooo nice in a subie/supra/skyline/240. basically any application with a forward facing turbo and this compressor housing is definitely the way to go. i can post a few pics if you are interested?


Quote:
Originally Posted by scby rex View Post
Is BW planning on making SS v band housings like garret? Id like to see your ej results, but I will not read this rag of a magizine. Their numbers are inflated and they straight out lye.
garrett does not make SS vband housings, TiAL does. I do not recommend these housings for a few reasons

-they are singlescroll (go twinscroll or stay stock location IMHO)
-they are very thin, and its unlikely it would contain the turbine wheel shrapnel in the event of a burst at temperature
-the manifold will have to be custom and will force you to stay with a tial vband housing turbo in the future. you will be unable to change out to anything that isnt compatible with the tial turbine hsg

sorry to hear you dont like modified, i can understand why but the guys that work there now are REALLY great guys, they dont BS and dont lie. Some of the guys that no longer work there didnt help the image. here is a great article on twinscroll if you have the time to read

http://www.full-race.com/modified-twinscroll/

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Old 06-11-2009, 01:10 AM   #65
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So geoff you would recommend using the BW 83-75 with the 1.00 a/r exaust housing with your new gen 2 rotated kit, i'll be using this with a built block and build heads and cams?
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Old 06-11-2009, 01:32 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Full-Race Geoff View Post
glad to know i helped

Im a huge fan of the 83-75, and after realizing we SHOULD have used the 1.00 a/r on yimisport's STI instead of the too-big-and-laggy 1.10 a/r im even more impressed.. the 1.00 really gives the 35R 1.06 a run for its money... FWIW i run the BWs on my personal cars, and I can get any turbo i want.
We recently put on a Garrett GT35R with an ATP 1.06 A/R twinscroll turbine housing on our Time Attack car and the results were remarkably similar to those we saw with the BW 83-75. The BW made a touch more power up top and was a touch slower spooling (it had the 1.10 A/R hotside). Again I need to emphasis that the differences were very small. On the street the GT35R feels a bit livelier and had a bit more progressive feel as boost ramps up.

Honestly though, had we used the 1.00 A/R hotside on the BW turbo I'm pretty sure that peak power would have been identical to the the GT35R and boost threshold and the transition to full boost would have been the same or a bit better. The way I see it, the BW 83-75 and the GT35R are nearly identical performers. Given that the BW is rebuildable and cost quite a bit less, it's a veritable bargain.
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Old 06-11-2009, 03:47 AM   #67
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So if BW ever develops these their turbos with a bb cartride option it should perform even better? Is the extended tip technology similar to those HTA wheel conversions that are out right now?
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Old 06-11-2009, 09:50 AM   #68
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Just on a tangent how does the bigger BW variant S300X 91-79 compare to the GT4088R..

What housing would you recommend and which turbo and why??
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Old 06-11-2009, 10:26 AM   #69
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nice article full-race geoff
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Old 06-11-2009, 09:30 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by mpsti05 View Post
So geoff you would recommend using the BW 83-75 with the 1.00 a/r exaust housing with your new gen 2 rotated kit, i'll be using this with a built block and build heads and cams?
yes! the 83-75 1.00 A/R is by far one of my favorite turbos to use on our twinscroll turbokits (for any car: evo, supra, skyline, EJ25 etc). Also, depending on the charge pipes/FMIC setup you use, you may want to consider special ordering the turbo with a 90 degree compressor housing - it fits very nicely in the subie engine bay

Quote:
Originally Posted by socalLGT View Post
We recently put on a Garrett GT35R with an ATP 1.06 A/R twinscroll turbine housing on our Time Attack car and the results were remarkably similar to those we saw with the BW 83-75. The BW made a touch more power up top and was a touch slower spooling (it had the 1.10 A/R hotside). Again I need to emphasis that the differences were very small. On the street the GT35R feels a bit livelier and had a bit more progressive feel as boost ramps up. Honestly though, had we used the 1.00 A/R hotside on the BW turbo I'm pretty sure that peak power would have been identical to the the GT35R and boost threshold and the transition to full boost would have been the same or a bit better. The way I see it, the BW 83-75 and the GT35R are nearly identical performers. Given that the BW is rebuildable and cost quite a bit less, it's a veritable bargain.
great to hear you got to test out that twinscroll 35R as well, can you email me any plots or logs comparing the two?

Quote:
Originally Posted by methaddict View Post
So if BW ever develops these their turbos with a bb cartride option it should perform even better? Is the extended tip technology similar to those HTA wheel conversions that are out right now?
yes, the wheel aero found on the FP HTA turbos is very similar to the BW units in that they both have extended tipped 7 blade compressor wheels with a conservative inducer:exducer ratio (trim). The extended tip has a huge effect on delivering stable airflow at elevated boost levels, so if you compare a BW or HTA to a garrett at over 28 psi, thats when the differences and benefits of the extended tip compressors really start to shine. at 15-20psi its not a big diff of extended tip vs std tip

whether a BB center section offers any real performance benefit is still up for debate... the cosworth guys i spoke with seemed to think BB is BS... the BW guys did have a prototype BB chra in development but my understanding is that the miniscule performance gains were not worth the increase in cost, more complex/expensive rebuild procedure, and it may never become a production turbo. who knows what the future holds, but BW is serious about turbos and if they deem the BB chra top be worthwhile, it could possibly reach production.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tino View Post
Just on a tangent how does the bigger BW variant S300X 91-79 compare to the GT4088R..

What housing would you recommend and which turbo and why??
the 91-79 is a great comparison to the GT40R. we have found the BW is a larger turbo than the 40R yet it spools just as well and makes substantially more power and supports higher boost levels. dollar for dollar the BW definitely has the advantage here, not to mention its available with the 90 degree compressor housing if that fits your application.

the .91 a/r is great to start off with and good for up to 28-30 psi but beyond that i think the 1.00 a/r is the one to use. unfortunately the 1.00 a/r for the 79mm turbine wheel may not be available until the end of summer, we are keeping on top of them to get it out soon. all-in-all the 91-79 is a great unit for a responsive 700+whp application

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlxSti View Post
nice article full-race geoff
thanks!! glad you liked it. im working on another article with them right now for compressor to turbine sizing and matching

Last edited by Full-Race Geoff; 06-11-2009 at 09:40 PM.
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Old 06-12-2009, 12:32 AM   #71
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great to hear you got to test out that twinscroll 35R as well, can you email me any plots or logs comparing the two?
I'll post them up and shoot them over to you next week. I'd do it sooner, but I'm actually going to be in Phoenix tomorrow for a mini vacation. I'll give you a call when I get in
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Old 06-12-2009, 01:20 AM   #72
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Can we get some pictures of the 90 degree compressor on the 83/75 this is the only thing holding me back on getting one of these is fitment.
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Old 06-12-2009, 01:45 AM   #73
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Can we get some pictures of the 90 degree compressor on the 83/75 this is the only thing holding me back on getting one of these is fitment.
Straight from Full-race's website:
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Old 06-12-2009, 08:25 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Full-Race Geoff View Post




the 91-79 is a great comparison to the GT40R. we have found the BW is a larger turbo than the 40R yet it spools just as well and makes substantially more power and supports higher boost levels. dollar for dollar the BW definitely has the advantage here, not to mention its available with the 90 degree compressor housing if that fits your application.
I spoke to another guy at FR and he recommended the 40R over the 91-79 as a better turbo?? Price not-withstanding..
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Old 06-12-2009, 02:14 PM   #75
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Thanks
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