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Old 11-22-2008, 10:12 AM   #1
Mike_Subaru
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Default Valves are Bent, what are my options?

Hi folks, I was not allowed to ask these new questions, so I am hi-jacking my own thread to ask this new questions.

If you followed my previous thread, my Vibration Damper came apart, and the result was my timing belt skipped about 10 degrees. I opened up the timing area and just re-alligned everything, the engine would not start, guessing there is valve damage.

What are my options? I want to know, how likely are the valves seats damaged too? How about the pistons? Do they ever suffer damage from valve contact? I don't want to be into $2000.00 of engine disassembly and find I need to get new heads too.

I want to know if Valves bent are the only probable issue.

I have ordered a Perrin Aftermarket Crank Pulley. I have read they vibrate the engine, is this true? I will never use a stock damper again. This was a perfect running engine, and really makes me wonder if Subaru will continue to be my favorite car. This is my third one, but this should not have happened, and teh factory should make amends.

I really dread taking this to Subaru to do the work. I would like to do the work myself, but no garage and winter is almost here.

Does Subaru warrenty the engine after such a repair, and how many miles is the warrenty?
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Last edited by Mike_Subaru; 11-25-2008 at 08:06 AM. Reason: Moderator would not let me make a new posting to ask this new question
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Old 11-22-2008, 10:33 AM   #2
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Where are you located?
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Old 11-22-2008, 10:36 AM   #3
Mike_Subaru
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Eastern Mass. Winter is comming soon, and now I dread I will have to use a normal 2 wheel drive car. This is my third Subaru, the other two went to 250,000+ miles with no such drastic failures. Has Quality degraded since I purchased my 95 wagon? Wakedfield Subaru did the timing belt change. Is there a history of this issue?
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Old 11-22-2008, 10:51 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Subaru View Post
Hey folks, wonder how many of you folks have seen a failure like this one.

2002 2.5, 120,000 miles. Driving home at 70 MPH yesterday and the STOCK Factory Vibration Damper came apart. Anyone hear of this type of failure before? Is this a common failure? I had the subaru dealership replace the belt at 110,000 miles, and they did not notice the damper in a degraded condition.

The rubber seperated from the crank part of the pulley and the belt part of the pulley slid into the timng belt cover case.

The timing cover melted and the melted plastic got into the timing pullies and made the timing belt jump.

I am attempting to post some photos. Can anyone tell me based on these photos if I bent the valves, Or can you tell from this written description? Can I can just re-time the belt and all will be good?

The drivers side pulley is straight up, inline with the white timing mark.

The passenger side timing mark is pointing at the 11:00 o'clock position.

The crank... I am not sure, is the keyway the timing mark, or is it the square on the front side of the pulley? In either case, the square on the front of the pulley is at the 1 o'clock position.

I do not hear anything when cranking the engine, no interfearance, and seems like there is good compression, but that is by hand turning it. It would seem imnpossible to do a compression check, with the spark plugs sooo deep inside.

Thanks... Mike... Will try to post photos soon.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/32667401@N02/3050491440/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/32667401@N02/3050490736/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/32667401@N02/3049648639/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/32667401@N02/3050488502/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/32667401@N02/3049650469/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/32667401@N02/3049651115/


i think your engine may live another day since you didn't lose the timing belt, it just skipped...

as far as i know 97+ EJ engines are interference engines, which can cause some carnage when the belt snaps
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Old 11-22-2008, 11:00 AM   #5
Mike_Subaru
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Well, I did not hear anything when thie engine failure occured.

Going along at 70, and then the engine stalled. No noise at all. If I was not loosing speed I would not have known the engine stopped.

Then when trying to re-start, I did not hear any noise at all either. It is cranking like normal, just no igintion to get it running.
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Old 11-22-2008, 11:37 AM   #6
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Default damper failure

pmed you
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Old 11-22-2008, 12:04 PM   #7
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Wow never heard of that happening on a subaru before.
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Old 11-22-2008, 02:44 PM   #8
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There have been a couple of post about the dampener coming apart in the past year or so. If it were mine I would re-time it and hope for the best. Then again I have a spare engine sitting in the corner.
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Old 11-22-2008, 05:01 PM   #9
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i cant believe that . crazy dude. do yourself a favor and get a nice lightweight billet crank pulley when you change that out, and never have to worry about it . i have a cobb but they are harder to find everyday. agency power makes a good one.

do you have the shop manual for timing procedure? if not pm me and i can send you over the info on how to do it . man what a piece of **** thing to happen
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Old 11-22-2008, 05:41 PM   #10
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I have seen the dampers come apart before. The 2.5 is an interference engine. If the belt jumped at highway speeds, most likely there are bent valves.

For the timing marks, the crank pulley has a mark on one of the tabs that trigger the cranks sensor, that gets lined up with the mark right below the crank sensor. The cam pulleys have a mark on the outside that gets lined up with the notch in the rear timing belt cover.

Last edited by 69subaru360; 11-22-2008 at 05:47 PM.
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Old 11-22-2008, 07:02 PM   #11
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While I have folks thinking about this... I will try the re-time and hope for the best. If valves are bent, what does a create engine cost installed? Are they available? Or is this engine worth having the valves replaced? Bent valves, I would not trust that the head would be still good?

Can I get new factory heads? How much do they cost, if I did? I have never trusted dealerships to do a major job like head re-conditioning before. I have been building Ford engines for over 25 years. I have a 11.55 second 302 66 mustang and I even modified the C4 tranni to hold the power. So, I am not afraid to do the work, but being older I would rather pay to have it done, but not if they do not do the job correctly.

Also, how do I get word to Subaru Directly about this? I would like to contact corporate headquarters, and see if they will pick up the costs if the valves are bent.

I bet the timing belt cover alone goes for $800.00 I will try to find one at a junk yard though.
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Old 11-25-2008, 08:07 AM   #12
Mike_Subaru
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Ok, if you followed my previous thread, or not, my Vibration Damper came apart, and the result was my timing belt skipped about 10 degrees. I opened up the timing area and just re-alligned everything, the engine would not start, guessing there is valve damage.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1643823

What are my options? I want to know, how likely are the valves seats damaged too? How about the pistons? Do they ever suffer damage from valve contact? I don't want to be into $2000.00 of engine disassembly and find I need to get new heads too.

I want to know if Valves bent are the only probable issue.

I have ordered a Perrin Aftermarket Crank Pulley. I have read they vibrate the engine, is this true? I will never use a stock damper again. This was a perfect running engine, and really makes me wonder if Subaru will continue to be my favorite car. This is my third one, but this should not have happened, and teh factory should make amends.

I really dread taking this to Subaru to do the work. I would like to do the work myself, but no garage and winter is almost here.

Does Subaru warrenty the engine after such a repair, and how many miles is the warrenty?
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Old 11-25-2008, 08:47 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Subaru View Post
This is my third one, but this should not have happened, and teh factory should make amends.
'02, 120k miles, and you expect the subaru to warranty this for you? $&*# happens, and you made it LONG past the time when a normal manufacturer defect would have shown up. Cars break down, usually when you can least afford it!
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Old 11-25-2008, 08:53 AM   #14
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I bought the car used at 110,000 miles and full book value of $12,000 from a subaru dealership. I have only owned the car for 10,000 miles and they will not cover this damage.
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Old 11-25-2008, 09:52 AM   #15
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don't buy a crate engine from subaru, you're better off getting a used engine some place else...

Are you near Springfield, MA? ECS is there, they usually have good N/A engines they take from their customer's turbo swaps. I would suggest you call them up...
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Old 11-25-2008, 09:52 AM   #16
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don't buy a crate engine from subaru, you're better off getting a used engine some place else...

Are you near Springfield, MA? ECS is there, they usually have good N/A engines they take from their customer's turbo swaps. I would suggest you call them up...
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Old 11-25-2008, 10:12 AM   #17
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Subaru doesn't sell complete engines. They only sell shortblocks.

The timing cover is not that expensive. Under $100. If you need a used one, I have one.

The valves are going to be bent, how many you won't know till you get it apart, I've seen them bend all 16. Plan on replacing them and a valve job. It depends how far out of time it got if there will be marks on the pistons. Usually even if it put a mark on the pistons, it will be ok to use them as is as long as you knock the sharp edges down.

The suggestion to get a used engine is a good one. It will probably be cheaper in the long run and you could probably find one with lower mileage than what you have. Put a new timing belt on it along with your new pulley and you are good to go.
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Old 11-25-2008, 03:43 PM   #18
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I am going to pull the motor out, maybe this weekend. I am not a wuss when it comes to this stuff, just never worked on a Subi engine before. I have been building 12 second Fords for a very long time.

After talking to a friend at work, he says the engine comes out in about 4 hours, and we will go from there. Thanks for all your help folks. 16 valves, and an engine gasket kit sounds like a good price to me. Just wish winter was not here, I do not have a garage....
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Old 11-25-2008, 03:49 PM   #19
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if that motor is coming out man there is so much you should do ! your going to love the new lightwieght pulley.. you should put on group n motor mounts while its out . they are a little pricey but power to the wheels is power to the wheels.you here in new england right this place is good and quick http://www.subaruwrxparts.com/produc...nts-p-316.html
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