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Old 11-22-2008, 05:12 PM   #1
sti04dude
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Unhappy STi Timing Marks Won't Line Up ! ! !

I have been rotating the engine of my 2004 STi for a long time in a futile attempt to get all seven (7) timing marks lined up.
Although it defies logic to me, the relative position of the marks on the cam gears and belt change with every complete cycle of belt rotation.

As you spin the motor over time, the marks get closer, miss their exact alignments, and then start their cycle again.

Nowhere is this mentioned in any manual or write up.

It is always just, "Rotate the motor until all of the marks line up".

Well..okay...but I have been doing that and they are not lining up.

Somebody PLEASE provide some insight into WTF is happening how to remedy the situation.

Thanks very much.
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Old 11-22-2008, 08:23 PM   #2
mikeythejew
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Sometimes you will not get all marks to line up 100% perfectly, even with a correct installation. This is known and not debatable.
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Old 11-22-2008, 08:27 PM   #3
sti04dude
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The closest I got the marks to line up is perhaps 3 - 6 teeth off.

I would think that TDC would arrive once every complete belt rotation,
and that all of the marks would align at that time.

But, as I noted above, the alignment cycle is definitely not once every belt rotation.

The car runs great, and has never been apart, so I do not suspect anything unusal...
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Old 11-22-2008, 08:45 PM   #4
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Here you go. Click on the top, "dohctbelt" PDF file. It's published via the end wrench = good info.

http://www.scoobymods.com/forums/sho...ht=timing+belt
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Old 11-22-2008, 08:57 PM   #5
sti04dude
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Thanks for the link.

I was using that pdf throughout the day, although my cam pulleys are not what is shown.

However, it still does not address my situation where the marks do not line up,
and how the belt/pulley mark relationship changes with each belt rotation.

Perhaps the STi is different ?

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Old 11-22-2008, 09:20 PM   #6
WRXDK
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Getting the marks on the belt to line back up with the marks on the gears only happens every ???? revolution. I am pretty sure that you should be concerned with the marks on the gears only (and covers). If for some reason you are going to re-install the belt, you could make new marks. If you can see the original marks you can use those to re-install the belt. If you are removing the belt make sure you have the left side(driverside) cam gears locked so you dont bend valves.
I am sure some one will correct me if I am wrong.
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Old 11-22-2008, 09:22 PM   #7
dunk
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No,

They mean the marks on the cam gears, not the marks on the belt.

Rotate the motor until the mark on the crank pulley is under the notch below the crank sensor and the two double hash marks on both cam gears are pointing towards each other.

Now you're at TDC and you can remove the belt. If you're planning to reinstall the same belt you should paint new reference lines on the belt with a marker.

Duncan
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Old 11-22-2008, 09:22 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXDK View Post
Getting the marks on the belt to line back up with the marks on the gears only happens every ???? revolution. I am pretty sure that you should be concerned with the marks on the gears only (and covers). If for some reason you are going to re-install the belt, you could make new marks. If you can see the original marks you can use those to re-install the belt. If you are removing the belt make sure you have the left side(driverside) cam gears locked so you dont bend valves.
I am sure some one will correct me if I am wrong.
Beat me to it.
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Old 11-22-2008, 09:26 PM   #9
sti04dude
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All of the original mechanical and painted marks on the belt and pulleys are clearly visible.

If all four (4) cam pulleys are properly lined up, then are you assured that the crank pulley is also in the proper position ?

If so, why do all of the manuals and instructions tell you to specifically align all seven (7) marks ?

Thanks for everyone's input...every bit helps !
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Old 11-22-2008, 09:28 PM   #10
rick-l
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I worried about the same thing since it is a $3000 mistake. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1587945

It took a while to convince myself that they shouldn't line up after 1 revolution but when I counted the teeth I believed.

They will line up again in 281 revolutions.
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Old 11-22-2008, 09:43 PM   #11
dunk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sti04dude View Post
All of the original mechanical and painted marks on the belt and pulleys are clearly visible.

If all four (4) cam pulleys are properly lined up, then are you assured that the crank pulley is also in the proper position ?

If so, why do all of the manuals and instructions tell you to specifically align all seven (7) marks ?

Thanks for everyone's input...every bit helps !
1 - crank mark
2 - drivers side cam marks to back cam cover
1- drivers side intake cam to drivers side exhaust cam
2 - passenger side cam marks to back cam cover
1 - passenger side intake cam to drivers side exhaust cam
= 7 marks total

Duncan
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Old 11-22-2008, 10:48 PM   #12
sti04dude
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281 revolutions (my assistant got a kick out of that !)...

That explains my sore arms !

The proposed solution sounds promising...

My concern is that some posts (like munkis on the referenced thread)
mention a "pulley-cover" mark alignment.

However, there are only pulley-pulley and belt-cover mark alignments.

My understanding is to line up the pairs of left and right pulleys,
and to forget about the belt marks.

Question: when the pulley-pulley alignments are correct,
is the crank pulley also, by default, in the proper position ?

Thanks again to everyone.
With any luck, I may actually get this finished tomorrow !

Last edited by sti04dude; 11-22-2008 at 10:55 PM.
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Old 11-22-2008, 10:59 PM   #13
dunk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sti04dude View Post
281 revolutions (my assistant got a kick out of that !)...

That explains my sore arms !

The proposed solution sounds promising...

My concern is that some posts (like munkis on the referenced thread)
mention a "pulley-cover" mark alignment.

However, there are only pulley-pulley and belt-cover mark alignments.

My understanding is to line up the pairs of left and right pulleys,
and to forget about the belt marks.

Question: when the pulley-pulley alignments are correct,
is the crank pulley also, by default, in the proper position ?

Thanks again to everyone.
With any luck, I may actually get this finished tomorrow !
There's a mark on the crank pulley and it lines up to a notch below the crank sensor.

Anyways, since the cams spin at half the speed of the crank the cams will line up on the correct marks every two revolutions of the crank.

Duncan
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Old 11-30-2008, 11:31 PM   #14
94 GT
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I am doing cams on a EJ20G and alldata says to line up all the crank and cams (noprob right) then line up the dotted mark on the belt for the crank (A) lineup the left intake cam (B) left exh(C) then I put it through the water pump and the first idler gear (toothed one) then right int cam(D) right exh cam (E) then it says to pull it over the last idler (OVER THE OIL FILTER) then tensioner pull the pin! butt EVERY TIME I TRY TO GET IT OVER THE LAST IDLER IT PULLS THE LEFT CAMS OUT OF POSITION AND ENDS UP THAT SOME CAM OR CRANK IS ALWAYS OUT) SO WHAT SHOULD i DO? cause I"M going to flip cause its been like 8 or more times I've tried and even had like 3 techs help and they can't figure it out either any help would be greatly appreaciated!!

thanx jesse
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Old 12-01-2008, 09:15 AM   #15
munkis
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Take that lower idler pulley off.

Put everything on and line it up, put the tensioner in but dont pull the pin.

Then pull up on the belt, and install the idler pulley into its poisiton.

Make sure everything is lined up then pull the pin.
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Old 12-02-2008, 12:16 AM   #16
94 GT
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thanks man I thought of that but I thought that when you put it back on that it would do it agaian!! but on fri I will try that way!! kool ! but if I have the same prob , can I leave the timing marks on the left cams(both) a little advanced so when it pulls it pulls them straight, cause all the slack is were the tensioner is right?????

thanx again ,Jesse
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Old 12-02-2008, 10:32 AM   #17
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yeah you can do that. as long as all the marks line up properly when you are done.
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Old 01-26-2009, 07:24 PM   #18
bloopsta26
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how would you know if timing is off? and if it was off how would you check it?
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Old 01-31-2009, 07:18 PM   #19
jakeafi
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rotate the motor by hand stop if u feel any tension, if it speins freely and marks look very close ur in time
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Old 04-01-2009, 12:40 PM   #20
bloopsta26
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okay soo i have been doing my timing a bagillion times....after i get the belt and everything on. all the marks are perfect. i turn the crank around and the marks are all off... like the double notches are off by a smudge. do they have to be dead nuts even or can they be alil off. like i mean u really have to look at it....
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Old 04-02-2009, 01:07 AM   #21
rick-l
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bloopsta26 View Post
okay soo i have been doing my timing a bagillion times....after i get the belt and everything on. all the marks are perfect. i turn the crank around and the marks are all off... like the double notches are off by a smudge. do they have to be dead nuts even or can they be alil off. like i mean u really have to look at it....

The marks on the belt will be off but the 5 reference marks line up.

They will line up again in 281 revolutions (but I didn't try it).
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