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Old 11-22-2008, 09:53 PM   #1
williaty
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Default What Lies Beyond Bolt-Ons?

As soon as I get the header shootout completed, I'll have done all the common bolt-ons (intake, header, cat delete/hfc) as well as have tuned the car to take maximum advantage. For a variety of reasons, I have a feeling I'll be rebuilding my engine sooner rather than later (it just doesn't act healthy and it's getting worse). If I'm going to have the engine out of the car for a rebuild just to make it run again, I may as well do whatever it is you do to engines while you have it apart. The problem is that I just don't know what else one does to an engine.

Personally, I prefer to chase the broadest torque curve rather than the highest peak power. If I can do a mod that will boost torque in the 2k-5k, or even 3k-4.5k range but it will hurt me above 5k, I'm down with it. I'd much rather be able to press the pedal and surge forward than have to downshift two gears, wring it out to redline, shift, wring it out again, etc to make a pass. I'm not sure if that influences the suggestions or not.

Keep in mind, I'll do my usual exhaustive research on anything suggested. I just don't know what's possible at this point (the NA Whitepaper really isn't that helpful).
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Old 11-22-2008, 10:25 PM   #2
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Default as seen on tv

the tornado! supposed to give you like 10 ft lb's!!!!!

http://www.tornadoair.com/buy1/
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Old 11-22-2008, 10:28 PM   #3
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Cams, PnP, high comp pistons.
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Old 11-22-2008, 10:29 PM   #4
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supercharger!!!! its 6 k though
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Old 11-22-2008, 10:31 PM   #5
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I cant remember what you have done to your motor off the top of my head right now.

But have you done cams? There is an extra 10-12hp right there, and with a tune you could really take full advantage. Not exactly a "bolt-on", but definately something worthwhile to do to your motor.

I have delta spicy's in my SOHC EJ25, and it really wakes up around 3600.

~Josh~
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Old 11-23-2008, 01:01 AM   #6
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I'm considering cams. The only problem is the labor to get them done. It's $$$ and would be the first thing I didn't do to the car myself. I'm just not sure I could pull it off on my own.
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Old 11-23-2008, 01:07 AM   #7
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most of the labor is getting the cams in and out of the motor, WITH the motor still in the car. If you're already pulling it for a rebuild, cams would be much cheaper to put in, even if you send the heads off for the cams to be put in that way...
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Old 11-23-2008, 02:37 AM   #8
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remove intake manifold and exhaust manifold, remove heads. Send out heads to be PnP or just replace the stock cams. I dont reckon this be too hard.
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Old 11-23-2008, 02:41 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zac86 View Post
remove intake manifold and exhaust manifold, remove heads. Send out heads to be PnP or just replace the stock cams. I dont reckon this be too hard.
its really time involved . http://techinfo.subaru.com/diagnosti...a_WRX_and_STi/
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Old 11-23-2008, 03:15 AM   #10
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wtf that site says you need to remove the cams before you take off the head.
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Old 11-23-2008, 10:40 AM   #11
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subscribed, the williaty investigations always yield great results, I am also wanting the torque over HP and this will hopefully lead me down the correct path.
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Old 11-23-2008, 11:15 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zac86 View Post
wtf that site says you need to remove the cams before you take off the head.
On dohc heads the cams cover the head bolts( cams must be removed first). On sohc heads you can pull the heads with the cams in.

You also have the buckets on the dohc heads which must be measured/swapped/machined to get the correct lash with new cams. The sohc heads have adjustable rocker arms for lash adjustment.
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Old 11-23-2008, 11:26 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watchunglava View Post
supercharger!!!! its 6 k though
Hopefully less
http://www.rs25.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92852

But... if you have not done it.. go get the Delta 2000 cams. Worth EVERY PENNY and bruised knuckle lashing the drivers side!!
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Old 11-23-2008, 11:49 AM   #14
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spray?
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Old 11-23-2008, 11:51 AM   #15
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Never.
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Old 11-23-2008, 12:03 PM   #16
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Willaty, don't let the labor of installing cams even be an issue. It is FAR easier to do the cams, than in doing a full rebuild. I would be willing to find Powell, OH. and lend a hand if needed.

My suggestion for your goals would be an overbore and higher compression pistons, mild cams for a broad range of increase, and a mild port and polish of the heads. Keep everything mild and the curve will flatten out. The overbore will increase torque and compression ratio, hi compression pistons will further improve torque. The cams and PnP will improve the airflow for torque and power if kept to a moderate level.

Jay Storm
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Old 11-23-2008, 12:09 PM   #17
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I thought there wasn't much room to bore these blocks?
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Old 11-23-2008, 12:29 PM   #18
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There isn't, really. It's about .5mm limit. The easiest option would be a set of 100mm pistons with a CR of 11.xx-ish to 1. Get the pistons and have the block bored to match them.

Jay
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Old 11-23-2008, 12:33 PM   #19
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You can bore them .020'' over, which gets you too 100mm.

Cams for that motor are easy, setting the valve lash is the difficult part. If you buy a T45 (torx) bit and a small set of metric hex drivers, you can do the cam install yourself. I just bought a Chiltons manual and went to it.




~Josh~
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Old 11-23-2008, 12:42 PM   #20
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Honestly, I'd love to just do the cams, even before an engine rebuild. However, 3 years ago, the only thing I'd ever done to a car was change the oil. I actually didn't even do anything to my car until I did my own 30k service. Then I started the heavy suspension mods about 2 years ago and learned that as I went along. I've never done anything inside or with an engine at all. So I really have absolutely NO experience that would help me pull off the cam swap at all.

So, all the stuff you see me publishing happens from me doing the research, then the experiment, then writing it up. It's all stuff I'm doing for the first time.


Storm, I might just take you up on that offer to help me install cams someday.
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Old 11-23-2008, 01:08 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williaty View Post
For a variety of reasons, I have a feeling I'll be rebuilding my engine sooner rather than later (it just doesn't act healthy and it's getting worse).
how many miles do you have on that motor? do you think all the tuning you do has effected it?
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Old 11-23-2008, 01:10 PM   #22
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how many miles do you have on that motor? do you think all the tuning you do has effected it?
74,500 miles. If anything, I think the tuning has extended its life. The engine was never really "right" from the factory. It always knocked like a mofo and consumed A LOT of oil. The fuel mileage has steadily gotten worse since break-in as well. Really, I think one of the cylinders has/is about to let go.
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Old 11-23-2008, 01:53 PM   #23
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rebuilding a motor usually takes more work than doing just the cams. If you can do the former, you can certainly do the latter.
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Old 11-23-2008, 11:18 PM   #24
watchunglava
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Default no foolin

personally and im sure 90% of people around would agree if .20 is the max bore size for our clinders, you only want to go .10 because if something ever goes wrong you can still use that .10 left to bore it out one more time .

Quote:
Originally Posted by ballitch View Post
You can bore them .020'' over, which gets you too 100mm.

Cams for that motor are easy, setting the valve lash is the difficult part. If you buy a T45 (torx) bit and a small set of metric hex drivers, you can do the cam install yourself. I just bought a Chiltons manual and went to it.




~Josh~
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Old 11-23-2008, 11:44 PM   #25
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when i replaced my block, I smoothed out every corner of every fluid passage that I could. There were a couple of oil passages that really needed it, too. This probably won't net you much(if any) torque, but it's sure to reduce some pumping losses. Hell, smooth out the oil pump and match it to the block, they're not as lined up as one might think.
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