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Old 11-23-2008, 01:33 AM   #1
Chiketkd
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OMGHi2U STX wheel width change proposal...

One "issue" I'm hearing from drivers in both the awd and 2wd camps in STX is that the current wheel width restrictions don't allow competitors to effectively use the maximum allowed tire for the class.

With the 8" wide rims allowed for awd competitors, the winning set-up currently is a 235 tire, and even though some competitively sized 245's should be available in the near future (245/35/17) an 8" rim wouldn't be ideal in running a tire of this size & profile (most maufacturers recommend a 8.5" wide wheel).

The same applies to the 9" wide rims and 265 sized tire allowed for 2wd competitors. The 9" rim isn't ideal in running a tire of this size, and most manufacturers recommend a 9.5" wide wheel.

So my thought is to write a proposal to the SEB/STAC requesting that the max wheel width allowed in STX be upped to 8.5" for awd cars and 9.5" for 2wd cars.

Thoughts?

P.S. I have no dog in this fight, but seriously considering moving to the class in 2010.
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Old 11-23-2008, 09:14 AM   #2
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Here's the sccaforums thread: http://sccaforums.com/forums/1/33376...ad.aspx#333760

Initial feedback seems to be favorable.
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Old 11-23-2008, 10:22 AM   #3
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I put this on sccaforums...

Can't do it in stock, but you can do it in SP. ST allows for a slight change away from stock that isn't quite SP. So.. at what point does ST stop rules creep closer to SP on street tires?

Quote:
The 9" rim isn't ideal in running a tire of this size, and most manufacturers recommend a 9.5" wide wheel.
Bridgestone, Dunlop, Yokohama, Kumho... all allow a 9"-10.5" wheel for the 265, with 9" being the minimum according to the specs on TireRack. Not sure where the problem is?

--kC
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Old 11-23-2008, 10:45 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC View Post
I put this on sccaforums...

Can't do it in stock, but you can do it in SP. ST allows for a slight change away from stock that isn't quite SP. So.. at what point does ST stop rules creep closer to SP on street tires?

Bridgestone, Dunlop, Yokohama, Kumho... all allow a 9"-10.5" wheel for the 265, with 9" being the minimum according to the specs on TireRack. Not sure where the problem is?
Manufacturers are going to "recommend" what their lawyers tell them to. Competitors are going to do either a) what works (meaning "they are faster on them, and their tire guy can get them mounted), or b) what everyone else is doing and being successful with.

If putting a 265 on a 9" rim is a problem, why are stock class competitors stuffing 275s on 8" and narrower rims? I was putting a 245 on a 7" rim, and it's not because I wanted to spend the extra money over a 225.

It's not the rim width that is the problem, IMHO. It's the ability to use the widest tire that fits on that rim. I could have stuffed a 275 on my 7" rims... but then, I wouldn't have clearance against the rear struts.

Karen
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Old 11-23-2008, 11:55 AM   #5
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I agree with KC. The idea is to keep a limit on the class. I don't like the creeping edge of the little tweaks we're seeing in ST_ classes. Putting the wider tires on narrower wheels has been done for years in stock, in some cases with deminishing gains, get used to it.

Jay
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Old 11-23-2008, 07:34 PM   #6
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I actually chatted with Chris Shenefield who is on the STAC as I was giving him a ride out to the airport after nationals about this very issue, and I seriously doubt this is going to go anywhere.
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Old 11-24-2008, 09:07 AM   #7
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I seriously doubt that a 265 wide tire will fit on an E36 in STX trim. Making the width allowance any wider won't do anything for E36s in STX. I don't know what kind of wheel and tire size you can fit under an RX8 but if you can go that large it's going to be the only car in the class that will be able to use a 9.5 wide wheel.
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Old 11-24-2008, 10:30 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mere View Post
I seriously doubt that a 265 wide tire will fit on an E36 in STX trim. Making the width allowance any wider won't do anything for E36s in STX. I don't know what kind of wheel and tire size you can fit under an RX8 but if you can go that large it's going to be the only car in the class that will be able to use a 9.5 wide wheel.
Remember, this is a 2 part proposal - the awd cars would get 8.5" wheels.

An RX-8 can fit 9.5 wheels but so can many other cars that are STX eligible, such as the E46 BMW's, IS350, G35 coupe, Mustangs (current gen and prev fox bodys), etc.

Either way, wrx wagone's comment sums it up - if the Shenefield who's on the STAC had issues with this very issue, then consider this 0.5" wheel width increase proposal dead.
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Old 11-24-2008, 10:31 AM   #9
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The 265 might fit on the E36 with careful fender rolling (rolling the lip perfectly flat against the inside), but 255/40-17 makes a lot more sense if you factor the extra cost of going to 18" vs 17". 17x9 and 255/40-17 should work fine for RX8s and E36 cars. I don't see a huge performance benefit of 265/35-18 vs a 255/40-17.

I do wish that there was more continuity between the ST classes, with respect to STU being allowed to run any width wheel.
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Old 11-24-2008, 10:38 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiketkd View Post

An RX-8 can fit 9.5 wheels but so can many other cars that are STX eligible, such as the E46 BMW's, IS350, G35 coupe, Mustangs (current gen and prev fox bodys), etc.
None of those cars were run at nationals this year in STX; I don't see why you would want to change a rule set for cars that are not run in the class at the national level. However I do agree that there should be some parity with STU and the rest of ST* concerning the rim/tire size rule set.
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Old 11-24-2008, 10:41 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mere View Post
None of those cars were run at nationals this year in STX; I don't see why you would want to change a rule set for cars that are not run in the class at the national level. However I do agree that there should be some parity with STU and the rest of ST* concerning the rim/tire size rule set.
Some have been run in the past and have done well. Check the STX solo nats results for either '05 or '06 - in one of those years an E46 330i was 2nd in class.

The reason why I brought them up is b/c many more of these cars will be developed and competing in STX in '09 now that they can run 265 tires on 9" wheels.
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Old 11-24-2008, 10:46 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianGT View Post
I do wish that there was more continuity between the ST classes, with respect to STU being allowed to run any width wheel.
+12345

I also wish more ST classes existed for the fun-to-drive 2 seat cars.
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Old 11-24-2008, 10:59 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mere View Post
None of those cars were run at nationals this year in STX; I don't see why you would want to change a rule set for cars that are not run in the class at the national level. However I do agree that there should be some parity with STU and the rest of ST* concerning the rim/tire size rule set.
As Chiketkd said, what happened last year matters not. With the change in tire width for 2WD cars, and the new inclusion of the RX8... the game has changed a bit.

--kC
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Old 11-24-2008, 11:00 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiketkd View Post
+12345

I also wish more ST classes existed for the fun-to-drive 2 seat cars.
This one starts on the local level. NER allows S2000's and 350z's to compete in STU locally. If there's enough regions doing it to support it nationally, then there's a case. If not... why add a class for a relatively few cars? Also, the data may show that the S2000 and 350Z on street tires 'fit' the class competitively and may not need a separate class.

Just need the region to allow it 1st and foremost.

--kC
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Old 11-24-2008, 11:56 AM   #15
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Philly Region has started an STX2 class in 2007 and then moved to an STU2 class in 2008. National has contacted us about the class, so there is some interest at the national level.
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Old 11-24-2008, 12:24 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrx wagone View Post
Philly Region has started an STX2 class in 2007 and then moved to an STU2 class in 2008. National has contacted us about the class, so there is some interest at the national level.
What cars are in either class? I imagine the MX-5 and n/a Solstices will be in STX2, while the 350Z, S2000, Solstice GXP, etc will be in STU2?

Btw, what cars are doing well in these classes?
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Old 11-24-2008, 12:54 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiketkd View Post
What cars are in either class? I imagine the MX-5 and n/a Solstices will be in STX2, while the 350Z, S2000, Solstice GXP, etc will be in STU2?

Btw, what cars are doing well in these classes?
http://www.phillyscca.com/solo2/flye...rules.htm#stu2

We abandoned STX2 for STU2. Also the class has only on year of existence so far with VERY limited attendance. I'm still curious to see if the interest grows or not.
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Old 11-24-2008, 01:19 PM   #18
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Gotcha - thanks!
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Old 11-24-2008, 01:40 PM   #19
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I wouldn't support this. I think a 255 or 265 on a 9" is fine. A 245 on an 8" was fine for years and years. It sounds like extra expense for something that would only (marginally?) benefit a few folks.
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Old 11-25-2008, 02:50 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianGT View Post
I do wish that there was more continuity between the ST classes, with respect to STU being allowed to run any width wheel.
The feedback I received from the STAC is the unlimited wheel width in STU is a way to ensure the class is a step up for any car in STS or STX. The WRX could get ever so slightly faster in STU by moving to 9"+ wheels, but with the same tires, the same goes for the civics etc. If they were all unlimited, STU would not offer an STX WRX anything beyond what it can do it STX. I know this is kinda pointless, because nothing that STU allows is going to make an STX car fast enough to keep up with the STi's and EVO's, but still the reasoning behind it AFAIK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroFS34 View Post
If putting a 265 on a 9" rim is a problem, why are stock class competitors stuffing 275s on 8" and narrower rims?
Or even 275's on a 6" wheel.
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Old 11-25-2008, 06:30 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mere View Post
I seriously doubt that a 265 wide tire will fit on an E36 in STX trim. Making the width allowance any wider won't do anything for E36s in STX.
It does sorta sound that way:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1094713
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