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Old 11-24-2008, 12:41 PM   #1
socalLGT
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Default Full-Race 1.5 Scroll header/uppipe tested on Yimi Sport's 08 STi

Geoff from Full-Race asked us to test out the FR 1.5 Scroll header/uppipe (http://www.full-race.com/catalog/pro...541326dc0f00f2) a little while ago and just like many of you guys I was very curious to see what they could do.

Here is a little background on the test car:

08 STi
Built shortblock (JE pistons, Carrillo rods, ACL bearings)
Ported stock heads
STOCK cams and valvetrain
ATP GT35R stock location turbo
Custom FMIC
Custom CAI
Deatschwerks 850 injectors
Walbro 255
AP V2

This is our shop car, but also the owner's daily driver. For this test I wanted to isolate the changes in VE (and the attendant hp and tq changes) due to the FR header while holding all tuning parameters constant. I took a previously tuned 110 octane race gas map and reduced the boost from 29 psi to 22 psi. I also added some fuel. The goal was to allow have a "detuned" map of sorts were regardless of the header being used, the tune would be so conservative that the car would never even come close to knocking and thus skew the results as the ECU pulled timing. The net result powerwise was basically what can be achieved on pump gas. I also chose to reduce boost so that I could accurately monitor the actual boost levels the car was running. Since the car still has the stock MAP sensor, I had to keep it under roughly 23 psi to get an accurate reading.

While testing, I warmed up the car by rolling it on the dyno with the cruise control on for about 5 minutes. I then ran through the gears slowly till I hit 4k rpm in 4th gear. I then used the dyno brakes to slow the car down while in gear to 2K rpm (still 4th gear). At that point I went WOT and started sampling the runs at 2.5K rpm. The reason for this is to make sure that the temperature of the motor, it's fluids and the headers were as equal as possible. A "hot" run can yield better spool-up than a "cold" run, so I chose to make sure that all my runs were "hot" (for both the stock manifold and the FR header) and consistent. Here are the results:



As you can see the Full-Race parts performed amazingly. With absolutely no tuning changes and exactly equal boost levels, the FR header gained 14whp and whopping 40wtq! What you can also see from the graph is that power on spool-up has increased a bunch as well. This backs up the seat of the pant impression that off-boost power is much better. In addition what you can't see on the graph is that transient response between shifts and when modulating the throttle are far crisper and responsive. After the boss took the car for a spin, he came back raving about how fast the car spooled on the street and how lag free it was. Made the car feel really snappy and like it had a smaller turbo on it.

Once I completed the header test, I cranked the boost back up, leaned the car out to 12:1 and got this:



We'll have the car at the drag strip in a couple weeks to see what she'll do there as well.

Thanks again to Geoff at Full-Race for the opportunity to test out this fine product. While everyone knows that the parts are a bit spendy, they are hands down the finest headers available for Subarus. Construction is top notch, from the HEAVY piping used, to the perfect robotic and hand TIG welds. They are bomb proof. In the event of a nuclear attack the only thing left will be cockroaches and Full-Race headers! Fitment was also spot on. It's tight in there with the twin uppipes, but it all fits like a glove. If you want the best, this is it.
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Old 11-24-2008, 01:00 PM   #2
bgod
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Excellent results.


So what do these results compare with say the same car, parameters and a different aftermarket header.

Do you have any overlays of graphs of another exhaust manifold?

Reason I ask is the results are extremely impressive but just want to see how much of a gain there is on the competition.

$3k is a bunch to spend.
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Old 11-24-2008, 01:19 PM   #3
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Very informative Paul. The car must be a freakshow to drive now. ;-)

does the yimi dyno have analog inputs. it would be nice for you guys to have a logged boost curve. It really helps parse out the impact of boost on the torque curve vs other tuning parameters.

Do you have any pics of the headers?

Best regards
Tim
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Old 11-24-2008, 01:28 PM   #4
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So this was from stock STI headers to Full-race headers correct?
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Old 11-24-2008, 01:42 PM   #5
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Wait I just want to get my facts straight. It's getting cold right about this time of year.

Wasn't it 100+ degrees in your shop the last time you took the 35r dyno?
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Old 11-24-2008, 01:56 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgod View Post
Excellent results.


So what do these results compare with say the same car, parameters and a different aftermarket header.

Do you have any overlays of graphs of another exhaust manifold?

Reason I ask is the results are extremely impressive but just want to see how much of a gain there is on the competition.

$3k is a bunch to spend.
+1

It would be nice to see this compared to a GT-SPEC,PERRIN EL, or APS EL... Ones that cost under 1000

IMO and I might get **** for it but, 3k buys me a complete 35r/HTA kit.
That 3k will make alot more power in the long haul.

On another note, that power band looks like 1 fun ride!
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Old 11-24-2008, 02:18 PM   #7
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Thanks Paul


Really interested in other headers vs this one. Also interested in how this thing performs with the 30r ATP turbos.
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Old 11-24-2008, 03:04 PM   #8
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Last edited by Phatron; 11-24-2008 at 04:01 PM.
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Old 11-24-2008, 03:17 PM   #9
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Great results and thanks for the detailed attention that was given to the testing!

Pay no mind to the couple of haters, same ones in every other thread...
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Old 11-24-2008, 03:25 PM   #10
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Last edited by Phatron; 11-24-2008 at 04:01 PM.
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Old 11-24-2008, 03:28 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
jezzuzz begubbing kristos.....why is saying something thats $3k is expensive compared to $700 considered hating!?!?!??!!? its just a fact, not hate.

and also after some time passes and more of the headers are sold, i gaurantee you that my second statement will also be fact....
Because the thread has nothing to due with it... You're just trying to bash on the cost of the Full-Race product and the post was about it's performance...

This is Proven Power Bragging, not let me try and bash someones setup, results, or price they paid...

This is the reason why many people hate this board, and frankly it's just a few people like you that give it a bad name.
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Old 11-24-2008, 03:31 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
i'll just wait until one of the ebay companies copies the design and i'll get my FR knock offs for $200
Good job, soon we'll have no companies that actually engineer great products and we'll have a bunch of crap ebay products... I really dislike people like you..
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Old 11-24-2008, 03:39 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior2JZ View Post
+1

...3k buys me a complete 35r/HTA kit.
That 3k will make alot more power in the long haul.
Very true, but this is one of those "area under the curve" mods. Just like when people where like, "why would you pay 700 bucks for a perrin header when you can get a Gruppe-s uel for 300 bucks less. With that 300 bucks i could buy x part and make more power."

Is it spendy? You betcha!!!! Is there anybody on the forum that wouldn't buy a Full-Race setup if they could afford it? Yeah, probably, but they'd do it just to be jerks!
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Old 11-24-2008, 03:46 PM   #14
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Last edited by Phatron; 11-24-2008 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 11-24-2008, 03:49 PM   #15
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I think a mod should clean this up.

A few of us here just want to continue to see dyno charts, logs, etc... of the FR header vs other headers.

All this talk of price (that has gone on in countless other threads) doesn't really do much good here.
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Old 11-24-2008, 03:51 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
wrxhard said it best. he usually says the same thing i said, but in a much more pleasing way
Yeah, your reply beat me to the punch. Some of us have to work in between nasioc-ing
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Old 11-24-2008, 04:02 PM   #17
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Last edited by Phatron; 12-05-2008 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 11-24-2008, 04:54 PM   #18
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I also want to add that I love the FR stuff... for years, since they were back in Jerz.
The evo header I did last week left me a bit speachless.. but I cant justify the cost at times.
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Old 11-24-2008, 05:25 PM   #19
socalLGT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
cleaned up because i like paul.
Thanks Ron. Don't shoot the messenger Full-Race asked me to test out their header/uppipe and that is what I did. I have no personal interest in whether or not FR sells boat loads of their headers, so any impressions I relayed are just me calling it like I see it.

I ran out of time to dyno some other brands of headers so unfortunately I can't speak conclusively to what kinds of gains the FR header offer in comparison to other headers but I can say that I have never seen a 40 wtq gain from any other header. Most are in the 20wtq range, so by extension you could infer that the FR headers offer roughly 20wtq more than other headers, but that is a bit of a stretch of ricer math . As for the top end gains, I believe that a car with cams and perhaps a turbo with a larger hotside would have seen bigger gains. With the combo the test car had, the restriction was at those two points rather than the header.

Like most other people in this thread, I agree that the FR header/uupipe is spendy, but if you have a part that gains you twice the power of a competitive part does that make it worth twice as much, or more than that? The law of diminishing returns would suggest that said part should cost more than twice as much.

Last edited by socalLGT; 11-24-2008 at 05:32 PM.
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Old 11-24-2008, 05:37 PM   #20
socalLGT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surgeline Tuning View Post
Very informative Paul. The car must be a freakshow to drive now. ;-)

does the yimi dyno have analog inputs. it would be nice for you guys to have a logged boost curve. It really helps parse out the impact of boost on the torque curve vs other tuning parameters.

Do you have any pics of the headers?

Best regards
Tim
The dyno does have an analog input, but we have thus far refused to pay the $400 that Dynojet wants for the pressure transducer. I did log boost on all the runs that I made. Since the car has a Hallman MBC boost is very consistent. It made 22 psi with max 0.5 psi fluctuations during runs on both the stock manifolds and the FR header.

Last edited by socalLGT; 11-24-2008 at 08:03 PM.
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Old 11-24-2008, 05:38 PM   #21
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Last edited by Phatron; 12-05-2008 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 11-24-2008, 05:45 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
if you guys have it off the car again let me know so i can come make a styrofoam mold of it


Your to much!
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Old 11-24-2008, 07:53 PM   #23
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lol, I will take one Ron, I will test it here in Indiana

thanks for the comparison Paul, you da man. I will echo others here and would like to see the other headers like Perrin and Gruppe S EL show what they got on this setup
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Old 11-24-2008, 08:47 PM   #24
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Last edited by Phatron; 12-05-2008 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 11-24-2008, 09:24 PM   #25
socalLGT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
paul, can you throw up the plot of the old setup at high boost vs the FR mani at high boost?
It won't be quite apples to apples since the old race gas tune was on 100 octane and the new tune is on 110 octane. Also, in addition to the FR 1.5 scroll header/uppipe we also ported the heads and switched over to the EWG housing for the ATP GT35R (and the built shortblock, although that has no effect on power). IIRC, the old tune ran 25-26 psi while the new one is at 29 psi. So long story short it's not a fair comparison other than to see how the car has progressed. Here it is though:

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