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Old 11-25-2008, 11:21 AM   #1
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Old 11-25-2008, 11:30 AM   #2
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The Verdict: Quicker than an STI, and it’s $10K less. That’s what we call a bargain.
nice
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Old 11-25-2008, 12:17 PM   #3
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I have to say that it is a pretty good article. I didn't expect to much of the little EVO Ralliart, a specially considering how much it cost but I'm a little surprised about the GTi. Why are all the car rags in love with the Mazda?
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Old 11-25-2008, 12:36 PM   #4
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Have you driven one?

Give one a chance, and it may suprise you. Its really a great package that has no real shortcomings.

Treat yourself to a drive, I would be surprised if you left unimpressed at how good it is stock.
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Old 11-25-2008, 01:38 PM   #5
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Have you driven one?

Give one a chance, and it may suprise you. Its really a great package that has no real shortcomings.

Treat yourself to a drive, I would be surprised if you left unimpressed at how good it is stock.
are you talking about the mazdaspeed? I test drove one, and actually was able to ring it out for a fair portion of the drive. I was completely unimpressed, the shifter is terrible, driving position is awful, and the tires were spinning all over the road. I dont know why everyone speaks of them so highly, i was 100% let down
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Old 11-25-2008, 01:52 PM   #6
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I love they say you can buy an STI for alot more money than an 09 wrx when mine was only 4k more

Oh, and they can praise the FWD turbo car as much as they want...I owned a FWD turbo talon and the traction after adding a few mods was a joke.
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Old 11-25-2008, 02:44 PM   #7
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are you talking about the mazdaspeed? I test drove one, and actually was able to ring it out for a fair portion of the drive. I was completely unimpressed, the shifter is terrible, driving position is awful, and the tires were spinning all over the road. I dont know why everyone speaks of them so highly, i was 100% let down
Wait, you drive a WRX TR and you say the driving position was bad in the Mazdaspeed.. HAHAHA.. your funny. The seat can be adjusted in every single way the WRX can, and it has tilt AND telescoping wheel, if did not find a good driving position, its your fault...The MS3 would run circles around a stock 06 WRX in just about anything you can throw at it, and its nicer on the inside and out. The shifter is an acquired taste, I can give you that, but I love the way it feels. Wheel spin is an issue no doubt, as is torque steer, they they are minor annoyances and only really show their ugly head when your trying to drag race.

In the corners the MS3 is awesome, composed and tracks very well as its LSD works pretty darn well. If all you care about is 0-60, then no, the MS3 is probably not for you, its more a drivers car, than a straight line brawler. You dont live your life a quarter mile at a time do you?

On a track/autocross I would bet many a dollar stock for stock, the MS3 would eat a stock 06 WRX alive.

I have driven nothing but Subies for 8 years before I sold my 06 STI for the MS3 (needed something more tame for the newborn). Aside from the stop light shananagans, I simply do not miss the STI at all.
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Old 11-25-2008, 03:00 PM   #8
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I am not currently in the market for a new car. However, if something happened to the Saabaru, this is the class of vehicle I'd be looking in.

I wouldn't touch the Mitsu, nor the Mini. The WRX in '09 iteration is now on the top of the list due to AWD. as the '08 model, it would have been a dead heat with the Cobalt SS and the MS3, as the added performance would have convinced me to give up on AWD. If I lived in a milder climate, I'd likely go with the MS3, although the SS has a bit of pull on me. I'd like to get the domestic that finally has the beans to take it to the imports in this segment, and I like the "who, me officer?" looks. But once you go hatch you never (rarely) go back.
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Old 11-25-2008, 03:02 PM   #9
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are you talking about the mazdaspeed? I test drove one, and actually was able to ring it out for a fair portion of the drive. I was completely unimpressed, the shifter is terrible, driving position is awful, and the tires were spinning all over the road. I dont know why everyone speaks of them so highly, i was 100% let down
I had the same experience when I tested the ms3. On top of that it was June in AZ and after a half an hour the A/C still wasn't blowing cold. Sweated my ass off.
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Old 11-25-2008, 03:11 PM   #10
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Well, you have just pointed out probably the only weakness of the MS3, and its the same problem all Mazda3's have. An AC on the weak side. I will concede to that as well. You could hang meat in my wifes Outback. The mazda comes up short here. But if you say the performance is down compared it to WRX, then I would like to invite you to a track with curves.
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Old 11-25-2008, 03:36 PM   #11
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I similarly wasn't impressed by the MS3 when I really got on it. At about 7/10 great but when I really laid into it the torque steer was disconcerting. Overall a nice package, but wasn't for me.

This also seems like a copout: "Had we used the no-lift shift feature built into the Cobalt SS, it would have been quicker than the Mazda through the quarter-mile, but our test procedure requires using the clutch pedal and lifting off the throttle to shift."


BTW, is this the same article? That link didn't work for me.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...omparison_test
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Old 11-25-2008, 03:45 PM   #12
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Why are all the car rags in love with the Mazda?

It's kinda funny, all the American car mags love it and all the European car mags don't. I've driven one and it's a good bang for the buck, but shifter is so-so and it feels a little cheap.
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Old 11-25-2008, 03:50 PM   #13
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its probably because they have SOOO many more hatches available to them over there, and they are smarter to know that HP is not the end all when it comes to making a great car. The US is hung up on HP and not much more. I would wager that the MS3's power is greater than can be really used on their roads, where in America where the roads open up, its more in its element. Torque steer is a negative effect of appealing to the power hungry crowd here.
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Old 11-25-2008, 03:59 PM   #14
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I have to admit that Mazda does come up with some really good looking designs. Much better than most domestics imho.
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Old 11-25-2008, 04:08 PM   #15
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I love they say you can buy an STI for alot more money than an 09 wrx when mine was only 4k more
What are you laughing at? You got a deal on your STI, so what? Did you consider you could have gotten an equal deal on the WRX?

The cars ~ $10k apart in any configuration that affects performance. Period.

Last edited by REX8; 11-25-2008 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 11-25-2008, 04:11 PM   #16
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Wait, you drive a WRX TR and you say the driving position was bad in the Mazdaspeed.. HAHAHA.. your funny. The seat can be adjusted in every single way the WRX can, and it has tilt AND telescoping wheel, if did not find a good driving position, its your fault...The MS3 would run circles around a stock 06 WRX in just about anything you can throw at it, and its nicer on the inside and out. The shifter is an acquired taste, I can give you that, but I love the way it feels. Wheel spin is an issue no doubt, as is torque steer, they they are minor annoyances and only really show their ugly head when your trying to drag race.

In the corners the MS3 is awesome, composed and tracks very well as its LSD works pretty darn well. If all you care about is 0-60, then no, the MS3 is probably not for you, its more a drivers car, than a straight line brawler. You dont live your life a quarter mile at a time do you?

On a track/autocross I would bet many a dollar stock for stock, the MS3 would eat a stock 06 WRX alive.

I have driven nothing but Subies for 8 years before I sold my 06 STI for the MS3 (needed something more tame for the newborn). Aside from the stop light shananagans, I simply do not miss the STI at all.
hahaha esh. I never said it wasnt FAST, and i never said i liked my wrx MORE. in fact, i DONT like my wrx at all, which is why i was test driving the ms3. No i dont live my life 1/4 mile at at time, i drove an integra gsr before my wrx... adn would trade back for it in a second. I didnt like the ms3, and i you cant convince me other wise. I also dont like my wrx... so dont bother comparing them.

edit: My next car will be an s2000, because I do not like the ms3 (or the wrx) at all.
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Old 11-25-2008, 04:17 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
its probably because they have SOOO many more hatches available to them over there, and they are smarter to know that HP is not the end all when it comes to making a great car. The US is hung up on HP and not much more. I would wager that the MS3's power is greater than can be really used on their roads, where in America where the roads open up, its more in its element. Torque steer is a negative effect of appealing to the power hungry crowd here.
I think it has more to do with those mags having more quality offerings to work with. When you can choose from Renault, and even Ford there is no reason to look at the MS3. The Ford does everything the MS3 does, but is so much more rounded and has an I5 to boot.

In this review, I think they placed too much emphasis on the interior of the vehicles. I think the SS should have definetely placed much higher and it is surprising to see the GTI in its old age place that high.
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Old 11-25-2008, 04:28 PM   #18
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I love they say you can buy an STI for alot more money than an 09 wrx when mine was only 4k more //
They were comparing MY 09 cars, presumably.

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//Oh, and they can praise the FWD turbo car as much as they want...I owned a FWD turbo talon and the traction after adding a few mods was a joke.
I was at the TDC dyno a few years ago and the guy in front of me had an RSX with 300 whp. It started raining while we were there, and when he let out the clutch (relatively gently) to drive away, he spun the front wheels for about 20 feet.

We have two company Accord V6's, and they will spin the front wheels ferociously on wet pavement. So the fact that WRX has AWD is key for anyone in the snowbelt.

I liked the test they had a few years ago, when it snowed, and they had to park the other cars and ferry everyone to the hotel in the WRX.
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Old 11-25-2008, 04:42 PM   #19
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after switching from a moddified 02 wrx to the mazdapseed I can say that I am not shocked at all.

The speed just hauls ass and stcks to the road in corners better than my wrx did, and thats with its crappy 215 tires. The shifter does need some better bushings and would benefit from a SS but, my wrx was crap too stock
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Old 11-25-2008, 05:14 PM   #20
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I liked the test they had a few years ago, when it snowed, and they had to park the other cars and ferry everyone to the hotel in the WRX.
that had more to do with the tires that were on the cars, the two cars that made it up the mountain had all season tires, including the WRX
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Old 11-25-2008, 05:32 PM   #21
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after switching from a moddified 02 wrx to the mazdapseed I can say that I am not shocked at all.

The speed just hauls ass and stcks to the road in corners better than my wrx did, and thats with its crappy 215 tires. The shifter does need some better bushings and would benefit from a SS but, my wrx was crap too stock
To be perfectly fair, the MS3 has 215 tires, but they are FAR from crappy. RE050's are some of the better tires out there. So you can call them small, but not crappy
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Old 11-25-2008, 05:32 PM   #22
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that had more to do with the tires that were on the cars, the two cars that made it up the mountain had all season tires, including the WRX
And also the differentials on the cars. From what i remember the stranded cars had open diffs and the one FWD car that could still manage in the snow with the WRX had a LSD. Civic Si or Sentra Spec. V?
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Old 11-25-2008, 06:17 PM   #23
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hmm more evidence they could have done more with the current sti.
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Old 11-25-2008, 08:01 PM   #24
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nice
well only to people who track their cars is the STI any faster or a better value. that minority is probably only a 5% of the people owning any Subarus. That means that to the vast majority the WRX is as fast if not any faster than the STI. Some people can't afford an STI so to them to be able to afford a car as fast for $10k less is a GREAT deal.
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Old 11-25-2008, 08:42 PM   #25
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well only to people who track their cars is the STI any faster or a better value. that minority is probably only a 5% of the people owning any Subarus. That means that to the vast majority the WRX is as fast if not any faster than the STI. Some people can't afford an STI so to them to be able to afford a car as fast for $10k less is a GREAT deal.
I've always contended that the WRX made more sense for the everyday type. It is a great all around car, which is what most people need. Sadly, I see a lot of STIs that never see an auto-x course but see stop light street races instead.

~~Quentin
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