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Old 11-26-2008, 12:32 PM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default BMW to abandon high-revving engines in M cars




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Tough emissions standards worldwide and soaring manufacturing costs in Germany are behind BMW's decision to switch from high-revving, naturally aspirated engines in its M high-performance vehicles to turbocharged direct-injection powerplants, beginning as early as next year.

The move, which could alter the character of BMW M models, places question marks over the immediate future of the M3's 4.0-liter V8 and the M5's 5.0-liter V10. Both engines will make way for forced-induction engines in coming years, according to high-ranking BMW sources.

The first M vehicle to make the move to the new turbo powerplants is the X6 xDrive M, which will challenge the Porsche Cayenne GTS and the Mercedes-Benz ML63 AMG.

Set to appear next June, the X6 xDrive M will be the first model to run BMW M's new twin-turbocharged V8. This engine is also earmarked for the next-generation M5, due out in late 2010.

Based on the standard X6 xDrive 5.0i's 4.4-liter 90-degree V8, the new twin-turbo unit is said to match the current M5's naturally aspirated 5.0-liter V10 for power at 500 hp, while providing as much as 516 lb-ft of torque.

This should be enough to provide the M-powered X6 with 0-to-60 mph acceleration of less than 5 seconds and top speed limited to 155 mph.

"In terms of overall performance, the new engine doesn't give anything away to the powerplant we run now, but it delivers much better consumption and lower emissions," a senior BMW M official told AutoWeek.

The move comes as Mercedes-Benz's AMG performance unit is planning to turbocharge its 6.2-liter V8 when it introduces direct injection in 2010.

Besides developing new turbocharged engines, BMW's M division is also planning to equip new models with features such as automatic stop/start and brake regeneration in a bid to cut fuel consumption and emissions.

BMW is also testing a new driveline incorporating technology from next year's X6 ActiveHybrid, with a nickel-metal-hydride battery pack used to power an electric motor to boost performance levels.
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20081126/FREE/811269993
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Old 11-26-2008, 12:43 PM   #2
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Still never thought I'd see the day when there was an ////M SUV.
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Old 11-26-2008, 12:49 PM   #3
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Oh brother. I'll just keep browing Autotrader for a low mile E46 M3.
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Old 11-26-2008, 12:55 PM   #4
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*sigh*

BMW, yoar doing it wrong!

Want better gas mileage and emissions from your M cars? THEN STRIP OUT SOME WEIGHT YOU ASSHATS!!!

Unless you've completely given up on the true performance market, and just want to compete with Mercedes for the bench-racing-dyno-douchebag crowd.
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Old 11-26-2008, 02:13 PM   #5
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It will be nice to have a good motor in the X5 (though I wouldn't call it a true M), but I certainly don't want the next M-car. They are definitely going the way of Mercedes (bad, as described above), which is a huge step back from where the E60 M5 was at debut as a 2005 in Europe.

However, I have to believe that if not for the economy, they would have introduced a lighter M-car with even more RPM's (still NA), and KERS for some more torque. I do think this was a beancounter/marketing decision, and the engineers are not happy. Let's see what transpires after the F10, but for now, I will look elsewhere for my next biz car.
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Old 11-26-2008, 03:53 PM   #6
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It will be nice to have a good motor in the X5 (though I wouldn't call it a true M), but I certainly don't want the next M-car. They are definitely going the way of Mercedes (bad, as described above), which is a huge step back from where the E60 M5 was at debut as a 2005 in Europe.

However, I have to believe that if not for the economy, they would have introduced a lighter M-car with even more RPM's (still NA), and KERS for some more torque. I do think this was a beancounter/marketing decision, and the engineers are not happy. Let's see what transpires after the F10, but for now, I will look elsewhere for my next biz car.
Well I think the party is over,Tough Co2 in Europe and NA,plus new mpg req..We'll see they can do some good stuff with Turbo's/
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Old 11-26-2008, 04:10 PM   #7
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Still never thought I'd see the day when there was an ////M SUV.
same here with Porsche
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Old 11-26-2008, 08:16 PM   #8
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Didn't Mercedes come out and say that they were already tired of the power wars? They were going to start working on weight????

BltiZ
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Old 11-26-2008, 09:03 PM   #9
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Want better gas mileage and emissions from your M cars? THEN STRIP OUT SOME WEIGHT YOU ASSHATS!!!
The problem is, the hardcore performance oriented ppl have less money to be regular BMW customers than said douchebags who want luxury and comfort, which bring weight along with it.

hardcore car guys and fanboys need to outearn and outnumber the moneyed douchebags so they can drive the market more towards purer lighter weight sports cars.
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Old 11-26-2008, 09:29 PM   #10
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bring back the almighty e30 m3...light,nimble...and a 4cyc with no power but the car still outhandles and out performs cars way out of its class...did I mention lightweight..bare bones essentials with nice leather seats and thats it....before the days of sat nav and 10 airbags to save you in the event that you wreck as well as adding tons of unneeded weight.
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Old 11-26-2008, 10:21 PM   #11
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bring back the almighty e30 m3...light,nimble...and a 4cyc with no power but the car still outhandles and out performs cars way out of its class...did I mention lightweight..bare bones essentials with nice leather seats and thats it....before the days of sat nav and 10 airbags to save you in the event that you wreck as well as adding tons of unneeded weight.
good luck trying to sell that in our day and age...
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Old 11-26-2008, 10:53 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by blazzin06wrxdude View Post
bring back the almighty e30 m3...light,nimble...and a 4cyc with no power but the car still outhandles and out performs cars way out of its class...did I mention lightweight..bare bones essentials with nice leather seats and thats it....before the days of sat nav and 10 airbags to save you in the event that you wreck as well as adding tons of unneeded weight.
They have those, they're made by lotus
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Old 11-26-2008, 10:55 PM   #13
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they seem to be doing forced induction right. nothing like a tq curve that looks like a dining room table from 1400 rpm up through the rev range.
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Old 11-26-2008, 11:01 PM   #14
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They have those, they're made by lotus
Uh, no. You didn't need to imitate a pretzel to get in and out of an E30...
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Old 11-27-2008, 01:44 AM   #15
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It started back with the E36 and has progressively gotten worse.

The E30 was a great car, and while the Elise is amazing as well its different. The E30 on a track day will create a smile on your face like none other, and you have no worries of snap oversteer...
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Old 11-27-2008, 04:02 AM   #16
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However, I have to believe that if not for the economy, they would have introduced a lighter M-car with even more RPM's (still NA), and KERS for some more torque. I do think this was a beancounter/marketing decision, and the engineers are not happy. Let's see what transpires after the F10, but for now, I will look elsewhere for my next biz car.
It has all but been confirmed that BMW killed the M3 CSL project for the current M3 because they couldn't spend the money and make the X5 M. Sad state of affairs, but that is how it went. Everything is getting bloated.

If they were making this switch in addition to cutting weight that would be one thing, but I think BMW has gotten caught up in the horsepower wars just as the point of them is dying out.
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Old 11-27-2008, 10:01 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by blazzin06wrxdude View Post
bring back the almighty e30 m3...light,nimble...and a 4cyc with no power but the car still outhandles and out performs cars way out of its class...did I mention lightweight..bare bones essentials with nice leather seats and thats it....before the days of sat nav and 10 airbags to save you in the event that you wreck as well as adding tons of unneeded weight.
Go buy a Cobalt SS.
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Old 11-27-2008, 01:47 PM   #18
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good luck trying to sell that in our day and age...
Take a look what a nice, clean, low milage e30 M3 goes for these days (if you can find one).
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Old 11-27-2008, 02:21 PM   #19
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Take a look what a nice, clean, low milage e30 M3 goes for these days (if you can find one).
Used yes, a car enthusiast would most likely make the sacrifices in luxury and comfort for a better driving experience but trying to get it to pass modern standards of safety, emissions and comfort to sell as a new car, it would be a very hard sell. Most people buying these M3s aren't exactly the track savvy type.
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Old 11-27-2008, 03:43 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by edkwon View Post
The problem is, the hardcore performance oriented ppl have less money to be regular BMW customers than said douchebags who want luxury and comfort, which bring weight along with it.

hardcore car guys and fanboys need to outearn and outnumber the moneyed douchebags so they can drive the market more towards purer lighter weight sports cars.
So get back to work, you lazy mugs.
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Old 11-27-2008, 07:38 PM   #21
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Go buy a Cobalt SS.
Yeah....cause that's RWD, right?
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Old 11-27-2008, 07:54 PM   #22
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So get back to work, you lazy mugs.
I could actually afford it, but im no longer interested in lightweight stripped out uncomfortable cars anymore, why do you think i drive a legacy now?

but the rest of the complainers here should work a little harder, get a professional degree and make the money to be a BMW customer like i did. Then start making demands, instead of being a poor nitpicky fanboy.
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Old 11-27-2008, 08:39 PM   #23
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How's that M3 doing?
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Old 11-27-2008, 10:23 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by blazzin06wrxdude View Post
bring back the almighty e30 m3...light,nimble...and a 4cyc with no power but the car still outhandles and out performs cars way out of its class...did I mention lightweight..bare bones essentials with nice leather seats and thats it....before the days of sat nav and 10 airbags to save you in the event that you wreck as well as adding tons of unneeded weight.
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They have those, they're made by lotus
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Originally Posted by LargeOrangeFont View Post
Go buy a Cobalt SS.
or a Mini Cooper S
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Old 11-28-2008, 03:38 AM   #25
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I could actually afford it, but im no longer interested in lightweight stripped out uncomfortable cars anymore, why do you think i drive a legacy now?

but the rest of the complainers here should work a little harder, get a professional degree and make the money to be a BMW customer like i did. Then start making demands, instead of being a poor nitpicky fanboy.
Who needs a legacy when you have that high horse to ride on? Sorry, your post about having to go out and have a professional degree to be a BMW customer really rubbed me the wrong way.

The fact is that if you build it people will buy it. But most car companies are very slow to listen to any particular base of people. BMW blew it with the 135i. Instead of giving us a turbo 4 for entry, or lowering the prices across the board, they clearly priced themselves above their direct competition to where they think they should be. Until they cut the price the BMW badge costs many enthusiasts will continue avoiding BMW in favor of essentially equal vehicles from Japan.


BMW can make cars like they used to, but I agree once you get past all the modern regulations it's going to already have too much weight. Then it is a never ending cycle of adding more HP, and upping the weight of components and adding more horsepower....
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