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Old 11-27-2008, 01:04 PM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default GM may kill or sell Pontiac, Saab, and Saturn

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A GM spokesman declined to comment on a report Wednesday that the automaker was considering whether to eliminate its Pontiac, Saab and Saturn brands as a way to cut costs and improve its chances of getting as much as $12 billion in emergency federal aid.



The Bloomberg report, quoting anonymous sources, said selling or dropping brands could help GM save cash and avoid running out of money, which the automaker has said it is in danger of doing early next year. In June, GM said it was reviewing the Hummer brand for possible sale.
GM spokesman Steve Harris would not comment late Wednesday

The moves could be included in a restructuring plan GM is expected to submit to Congress on Tuesday with hearings scheduled the following week. Congressional leaders want Detroit's Big Three automakers to demonstrate how they would become viable businesses capable of repaying $25 billion in federal aid.



GM's eight U.S. brands are the most among the domestic automakers, compared with four at Ford Motor Co. and three at Chrysler LLC. GM agreed to eliminate the 103-year-old Oldsmobile brand in 2000 because of declining sales.



GM has 1,071 outlets for Pontiac, 400 for Saturn and about 105 for Saab among its 6,400 dealers, said Susan Garontakos, a spokeswoman. GM has been trying to combine Cadillac/Hummer/Saab and Pontiac/Buick/GMC brands into consolidated dealerships that would benefit from greater sales and lower marketing costs.



GM established the Pontiac division in 1926 and Saturn in 1985.
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Old 11-27-2008, 01:21 PM   #2
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Yeah because GMC(in addition to the Chevy brand), Hummer and Buick rock da house. >_< Pontiac and Saturn are decent brands at least when it comes to GM.
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Old 11-27-2008, 01:40 PM   #3
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^^^
So was Saab before GM mucked them all up.
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Old 11-27-2008, 01:52 PM   #4
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I am blown away that GMC - a brand that is 100% a rebadge of Chevy - is not the first to go. The other brands at least have some unique models.

The sad thing is that all 3 of the brands listed have potential - just in typical GM fashion, they are never given the resources to full go after their niche markets. Of those, I would say that SAAB is the easiest one to get rid of - Saturn should be positioned to go after that European/slightly upscale market niche.
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Old 11-27-2008, 02:01 PM   #5
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sell saab, kill saturn, trim up pontiac. problem solved.
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Old 11-27-2008, 02:25 PM   #6
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I have always envisioned GM like this:

GMC-Trucks only (including commercial grade cargo vans and trucks)
Chevy-Family oriented cars/SUV's/economical cars (think saturn). Obviously Corvette would be an exception.
Pontiac-Performance division (sedans such as G8/coupes such as Firebird)
Cadillac-Luxury cars/SUV's

Drop: Buick, Saab, Saturn
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Old 11-27-2008, 02:28 PM   #7
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I say kill pontiac, sell saab and fix Saturn.
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Old 11-27-2008, 02:54 PM   #8
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I think GM should stop rebadging everything they make. When GM was successful, they had a lot of commonality among platforms, but each brand had its own engine architecture, unique styling, and were made in their own plants. Having different brands with identical or very similar running gear made in the same plant but with different names makes no sense... I think Buick and Pontiac should have been gone a while ago. I don't really care if Saturn goes... it has no historical signifigance, and they don't make anything interesting except the Sky, which has the same engine as the Solstice. Hopefully they can sell Saab to a company that can fix it, because I'm sure GM never will.
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Old 11-27-2008, 03:01 PM   #9
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Buick and GMC seem like the natural ones to go. Buick is too redundant with both Cadillac and Chevrolet. GMC is badge engineering at its finest - Chevrolet with a different name.

Hummer could do well if it diversified its products and introduced some smaller vehicles. Saturn could become a leader in smaller, more economical cars. Perhaps use Saturn to spearhead GM's hybrid/alternative fuel efforts - give Saturn a "green" image. Chevrolet and Cadillac could stay as is. Sell Saab.
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Old 11-27-2008, 03:07 PM   #10
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The problem is dealer contracts. The dealers have contracts that say "GM will provide us with a full range of <brand name> vehicles."

It will cost tens of billions in penalties paid to dealers to get rid of a brand. (It's getting cheaper all the time as dealers go under, however...)
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Old 11-27-2008, 03:21 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby-Doode View Post
I have always envisioned GM like this:

GMC-Trucks only (including commercial grade cargo vans and trucks)
Chevy-Family oriented cars/SUV's/economical cars (think saturn). Obviously Corvette would be an exception.
Pontiac-Performance division (sedans such as G8/coupes such as Firebird)
Cadillac-Luxury cars/SUV's

Drop: Buick, Saab, Saturn
I cannot agree more. Also, why did GM make the Traverse, Enclave, Outlook, and Acadia? It just doesn't make sense and it must be waisting a ton of money.
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Old 11-27-2008, 08:07 PM   #12
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Kill Pontiac and replace with Opal as a performance-oriented car line. Saab should complete with Volvo.
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Old 11-27-2008, 08:26 PM   #13
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Kill Pontiac and GMC.
Sell Buick (to the Chinese), Saab, and Hummer.
Fix/Keep Saturn, Cadillac, and Chevrolet.
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Old 11-27-2008, 09:23 PM   #14
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Killing Pontiac is a no-brainer since its market position is basically the same as Chevy's.
Killing Buick is a bit of a problem because it's successful in China, and the BPG dealers probably wouldn't like losing two brands at once. Same with GMC.
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Old 11-27-2008, 09:43 PM   #15
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Kill Cadillac just for having annoying TV commercials.
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Old 11-27-2008, 09:57 PM   #16
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Saturn is pretty good right now... I say ditch GMC instead.
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Old 11-27-2008, 10:47 PM   #17
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i say ditch GM
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Old 11-27-2008, 11:06 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by SQ3.0dotJP View Post
i say ditch GM
agreed. if you want to support the american auto industry, look to ford.
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Old 11-27-2008, 11:11 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Hites View Post
agreed. if you want to support the american auto industry, look to ford.
Did 1985-2007 not happen? Cause Ford is just as, if not more guilty.
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Old 11-27-2008, 11:55 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
Saturn is pretty good right now... I say ditch GMC instead.
Agreed. The 3-door Astra is hot. Probably the hottest hatch ever produced by GM for the US. Unfortunately, GM has crippled the US Astra by only offering it with the 1.8L Ecotec engine. It's clear that the Astra would be terrific with the Sky/Solstice engine.
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Old 11-28-2008, 12:58 AM   #21
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Agreed. The 3-door Astra is hot. Probably the hottest hatch ever produced by GM for the US. Unfortunately, GM has crippled the US Astra by only offering it with the 1.8L Ecotec engine. It's clear that the Astra would be terrific with the Sky/Solstice engine.
... unfortunately I believe it isn't selling all that great, so for them to offer a better powertrain option might not happen, which is a total shame. Of course I am not too surprised by the low sales seeing as how no one even knows that it exists... there is a real lack of good advertising for many of GM's best cars. Most non-car enthusiasts don't know what the G8 is either.
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Old 11-28-2008, 02:46 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
Agreed. The 3-door Astra is hot. Probably the hottest hatch ever produced by GM for the US. Unfortunately, GM has crippled the US Astra by only offering it with the 1.8L Ecotec engine. It's clear that the Astra would be terrific with the Sky/Solstice engine.
Didn't Vauxhall do that, and it turn out to be a understeering pig? Or was that a different engine?
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Old 11-28-2008, 03:17 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptclaus98 View Post
Did 1985-2007 not happen? Cause Ford is just as, if not more guilty.
QFMFT

Ever since the bailout stuff came out, Ford has released a couple interesting pieces of news and a bunch of retards are suddenly saying, "GM should go under, yay Ford!". Yeah, we'll be getting a couple cool cars from Ford 2 years from now. In the meantime, almost their entire lineup is total garbage, and their typical business decisions are way more retarded than GM's, at least until the last 6 months or so. Meanwhile GM has spent the last 4 years or so cranking out some really good and occasionally excellent cars (C6, CTS, new Malibu, Astra, G8, Sky/Solstice, upcoming Camaro, Aura, etc.).

Only reason GM is in more trouble is because they are bigger.
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Old 11-28-2008, 04:31 AM   #24
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Ford is building a very American quality product that can mostly compete. I don't think they are that much better than GM, but at least they have a future plan rather than banking all their hopes on the Volt.

Buick needs to be sold along with GMC and Hummer. GM needs Saturn which is the only GM brand that a good number of younger people would actually want to purchase from. Pontiac has alot of history, but maybe someone could put that to better use.

I feel the same way about Saab. It would be scary with the uncertainty of new "keepers" of the Saab brand, but GM has not done the brand any justice and it could be managed by a company that would focus on the lineup and improve the cars to the point where they are competitive. At this point I really feel that Volvo, owned by Ford, is being better managed than Saab.
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Old 11-28-2008, 10:47 AM   #25
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FHI should buy Saab, ditch all their Opel clones, and turn it into luxury Subaru branch and offer new upscale Subaru based models.
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