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Old 11-29-2008, 01:47 PM   #26
Tgui
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john 1badSTI View Post
The 04's are known for having the weakest pistons of the sti's which means when you push that stock block to make close to 450-500 whp on pump you WILL crack a ringland it is inevitable,maybe not immediately,but you will.There is no such thing as making 500whp on straight pump cheaply--PEROID!!!
No, wrong.

If you remember most of the issues when the 04 STis came out were from people learning to tune the 2.5 block.

The 04 pistons are no different than any other year, and I would wager had a less percentage of pistons/rings etc than the 07s. Then again we're learning the 07s issues might have more to do with the stock tune much like the pinging stock tune of the initial 04s.
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Old 11-29-2008, 02:36 PM   #27
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...The 04 pistons are no different than any other year...
Righto, at least up thru '07. After that I can't say, but I'm sure others around here know the answer.

OP: read, then re-read Jeff Sponaugle's input on this. He's been at this game for long, long time and he knows as much about pushing our engines as anyone on this board.
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Old 11-29-2008, 02:39 PM   #28
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300whp?? The car weighs over 3000lbs! Iv had a few "fast" cars. How bout a 440whp civic that was 2400lds...The only reason I switched was to have a "nice" car that was also really fast. I wanna be able to beat 600cc bikes like i could with my civic. LOL! I ask for 500 n he offers me 300! Thanks bro...(no offense) I enjoy doing this dance, so I need a car that will win races for my victory dance...
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Old 11-29-2008, 02:55 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by 1000AWHP View Post
...I wanna be able to beat 600cc bikes...
500whp may be a little on the low side...today's 600cc crotch-rockets are bloody quick, amigo. Most of 'em are mid-10 second machines, and our cars weigh a boatload more than 2400lbs...
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Old 11-29-2008, 03:51 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by 1000AWHP View Post
300whp?? The car weighs over 3000lbs! Iv had a few "fast" cars. How bout a 440whp civic that was 2400lds...The only reason I switched was to have a "nice" car that was also really fast. I wanna be able to beat 600cc bikes like i could with my civic. LOL! I ask for 500 n he offers me 300! Thanks bro...(no offense) I enjoy doing this dance, so I need a car that will win races for my victory dance...

Stick to Civics, you'll have better luck
Most of us don't buy Sube's to beat 600's from a roll.
A 205, 207, 255, 257 is never going to compare to a civic in terms of weight, VE, drivetrain loss and budget.
You should have stuck with the Scivic.
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Old 11-29-2008, 03:53 PM   #31
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300whp?? The car weighs over 3000lbs! Iv had a few "fast" cars. How bout a 440whp civic that was 2400lds...The only reason I switched was to have a "nice" car that was also really fast. I wanna be able to beat 600cc bikes like i could with my civic. LOL! I ask for 500 n he offers me 300! Thanks bro...(no offense) I enjoy doing this dance, so I need a car that will win races for my victory dance...
I wasnt trying to offend you man. It's just most newbs in the subie world, especially on the forums thinks anything less than a GT35R STI is "slow" when their perspective of fast is the previous honda they were driving equipped with exhaust and intake. Your question asking what is the easy route to double the factory rated hp honestly makes you seem like you dont totally know what you're talking about. You should know in no way it's easy unless you have a ton of cash and can pay for someone else to do the work and research for you. I was just trying to shine a little light on the subject. I also did mention what would be needed to obtain a true and reliable 500awhp. It's all in how deep your pockets go...

And if your goal for your STI is to beat a 600cc bike then you purchased the wrong car dude. You'd need more than 500awhp. You'll probably run the quarter in low 11's-high 10's trapping right around 128-130mph full weight with a great 60ft. Sell your STi now and pick up an 03-04 Cobra. You'll be in the 10's with half the money invested.
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Old 11-29-2008, 04:35 PM   #32
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The easiest way is a big shot of nitrous
Has anyone seen how much nitrous you can throw at the newer bottom ends if it's properly done? I've got an old bugeye and I haven't bothered to look into the newer engines.

For some reason it reminds me of a white Trailblazer at the midwest Subaru shootout at Byron dragway. I'm pretty sure it was a stock 08 with a 300 shot. I believe it ran mid 11s.
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Old 11-29-2008, 05:05 PM   #33
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Should have got an EVO lol
It's going to coast you a pretty penny to get up to 500whp in a STi.....
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Old 11-29-2008, 05:06 PM   #34
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What car do you actually have? On evom its an evo on here its an sti.
If you are just considering between the 2, the evo will probably be a little easier to achieve this. Basically, you can a have a bolt on stock appearing turbo like the FP red to get there. But this won't be on pump. The sti will require some complicated spaghetti looking rotated setup, FMIC, etc..

Last edited by kingsti; 11-29-2008 at 05:43 PM.
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Old 11-29-2008, 05:14 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Tgui View Post
No, wrong.

If you remember most of the issues when the 04 STis came out were from people learning to tune the 2.5 block.

The 04 pistons are no different than any other year, and I would wager had a less percentage of pistons/rings etc than the 07s. Then again we're learning the 07s issues might have more to do with the stock tune much like the pinging stock tune of the initial 04s.
no, you are wrong. I actually got to talk (with an interpretor)to an engineer from Subaru of Japan and he admitted that the early cast pistons had some metalurgical flaws that were later fixed thats why the later models seem to be able to handle more power without problems.
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Old 11-29-2008, 06:34 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by 1000AWHP View Post
Do u guys agree its easier to make power in an evo? Will it also be more reliable? Why get a Subie then...? Just curious...
Torque, and a symmetrical drivetrain.
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Old 11-29-2008, 06:49 PM   #37
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Don't the heads of an inline 4 flow better than those found in our flat's? (porting aside)

Combine that with the stoutness of an iron block (=BIG boost) and better turbo placment (much closer to the exhaust manifold, obviously) those are the main reasons the 4G63 can produce the power it does. Not to mention evo guys make cam swapping one of the first things they do, not so popular in the subie world.

It's not magic though, sleeve a EJ257 and port the heads and you'll see there is no replacment to displacment. Spools larger turbos with better response which will ultimately equal a better powerband.

I guess it boils down to what you want. Really crazy hp (like this thread) the 4G63 would be a better choice. Something slightly more civil and I'll take the torque of the EJ257 any day of the week.
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Old 11-29-2008, 07:04 PM   #38
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id just put pistons and rods in a ej257 w/ the apppropriate heads (none of this silly ej205 heads + cam and port work) and run a 35r or equiv. garret turbo w/ alcohol + meth.

10s on pump alone arent the norm if at all in the subaru world, but i think its pretty common for evos to run mid 10s and trap 130+ on straight pump gas.

500whp is ALOT of power..i dont get why people get all caught up with hp numbers unless theyre serious drag racers..

a mid 12 second car is more then 'fast' enough for daily driving.
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Old 11-29-2008, 07:13 PM   #39
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Like an earlier poster said, get and Evo 8 or 9. Closed deck, Iron Block. Seems like that crowd is more up your alley anyway.
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Old 11-29-2008, 08:22 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve.804 View Post
Don't the heads of an inline 4 flow better than those found in our flat's? (porting aside)

Combine that with the stoutness of an iron block (=BIG boost) and better turbo placment (much closer to the exhaust manifold, obviously) those are the main reasons the 4G63 can produce the power it does. Not to mention evo guys make cam swapping one of the first things they do, not so popular in the subie world.

It's not magic though, sleeve a EJ257 and port the heads and you'll see there is no replacment to displacment. Spools larger turbos with better response which will ultimately equal a better powerband.

I guess it boils down to what you want. Really crazy hp (like this thread) the 4G63 would be a better choice. Something slightly more civil and I'll take the torque of the EJ257 any day of the week.
It's not just turbo location, iron block, or heads, it's the overall design of the motor. An inline motor inherently dissipates heat much better than a horizontally opposed design, which allows it to be more efficient, and produce more overall power. Combine that with a motor that has had years and years of R&D, great flowing heads, a stout iron block as said, and better turbo placement, and that's why a 4G63 shines.

The Subaru will not make as much peak power, however the power delivery and character of the motor are entirely different. If you want the most peak power, and devastating hp/liter, go 4G63/Evo. If you want a nice torquey motor with a wide powerband and smooth revs, go EJ/Subaru.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mxpunk View Post
id just put pistons and rods in a ej257 w/ the apppropriate heads (none of this silly ej205 heads + cam and port work) and run a 35r or equiv. garret turbo w/ alcohol + meth.

10s on pump alone arent the norm if at all in the subaru world, but i think its pretty common for evos to run mid 10s and trap 130+ on straight pump gas.

500whp is ALOT of power..i dont get why people get all caught up with hp numbers unless theyre serious drag racers..

a mid 12 second car is more then 'fast' enough for daily driving.

Agreed.
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Old 11-29-2008, 08:22 PM   #41
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hmmm.... this is why i like having import & domestic.

i have an corner carving fast WRX and a V8 mustang for when it comes to beating up on some people... although the mustang is not as fast as i want it to be, it will be boosted soon.......
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Old 11-29-2008, 09:12 PM   #42
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The easiest and cheapest way is to look in the for sale section and buy a car already making that power.
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Old 11-30-2008, 01:00 PM   #43
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It's not just turbo location, iron block, or heads, it's the overall design of the motor. An inline motor inherently dissipates heat much better than a horizontally opposed design, which allows it to be more efficient, and produce more overall power.
Thanks zer0psi, this makes much sense to me.
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Old 11-30-2008, 01:09 PM   #44
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one went up for sale earlier this week: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1644162

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The easiest and cheapest way is to look in the for sale section and buy a car already making that power.
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Old 11-30-2008, 01:28 PM   #45
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Thanks zer0psi, this makes much sense to me.
Seriously? I don't know much on the topic, but I can't imagine cast iron, no matter how it is positioned in the engine bay, dissipating more heat then aluminum.
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Old 11-30-2008, 02:33 PM   #46
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The 4G63 cast iron in-line 4 offers far less flexing of the block, much more efficient and compact channeling of coolants (both oil and water), and more efficient [shorter] turbo piping set-up. That said, you can have equally great motors with either design, but the reliability of the 4G63 at high power levels is nothing short of astonishing.

Just as an example of one of these (cast iron vs. aluminum), in the Chevy rat motor track racing world, an iron block 427 will make in the neighborhood of 50 hp more than the equivilent aluminum block, and last approx. 30% longer in between rebuilds.
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Old 11-30-2008, 02:41 PM   #47
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Seriously? I don't know much on the topic, but I can't imagine cast iron, no matter how it is positioned in the engine bay, dissipating more heat then aluminum.
Good point but I think it has to do more with the deisgn of the motor. I cant explain it, but it does make sense that pistons going up and down instead of side to side will allow the motor to dissipate the heat better. Maybe I'm wrong about this, like you I dont know much on the topic. I can see how feasibly it would make more power though.
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Old 11-30-2008, 02:58 PM   #48
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Good point but I think it has to do more with the deisgn of the motor. I cant explain it, but it does make sense that pistons going up and down instead of side to side will allow the motor to dissipate the heat better. Maybe I'm wrong about this, like you I dont know much on the topic. I can see how feasibly it would make more power though.
No, that doesn't make sense at all... Surely you do not believe that our motors would dissipate heat more effectively if they were mounted with two cylinders pointing downward and two pointing upward?

(Ignoring for a moment the visibility problems that would create...)
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Old 11-30-2008, 04:01 PM   #49
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TurboXS TMIC? I am going TXS FMIC for just ~330whp. If you're really going for 500whp, then think about the heatsoak your TMIC will suffer from. More power = more heat, and therefore more retarding on timing in certain driving conditions. Other than your internals I would imaging adding meth, both as a power adder and as a way to help guard against detontation. Depending on how you're going to be driving this beast you may get away with the stock transmission components but I would certainly be looking at a new clutch.
I make just under 500WHP with my Spearco, 30R and Q16.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1000AWHP View Post
300whp?? The car weighs over 3000lbs! Iv had a few "fast" cars. How bout a 440whp civic that was 2400lds...The only reason I switched was to have a "nice" car that was also really fast. I wanna be able to beat 600cc bikes like i could with my civic. LOL! I ask for 500 n he offers me 300! Thanks bro...(no offense) I enjoy doing this dance, so I need a car that will win races for my victory dance...
I'm 380WHP on pump and have no problem taking 600cc on the street on the open hwy its pretty close wayyyy up top. On my race gas map I can walk away from a 750cc.

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Originally Posted by sin13 View Post
one went up for sale earlier this week: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1644162
I thought that car had been for sale for a while now??

Last edited by 4ST-AIR; 11-30-2008 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 11-30-2008, 04:24 PM   #50
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I make just under 500WHP with my Spearco, 30R and Q16.


I'm 380WHP on pump and have no problem taking 600cc on the street on the open hwy its pretty close wayyyy up top. On my race gas map I can walk away from a 750cc which puts me just under 500AWHP.


I thought that car had been for sale for a while now??
380whp and beating 600's? you must be racing 80's sport bikes or squids!
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