Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday July 10, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors > Non-Subaru News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-02-2008, 02:04 PM   #1
AVANTI R5
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 73805
Join Date: Nov 2004
Default Chevy Cobalt SS vs. ’09 WRX, Mazdaspeed 3, and Four Other Sport Compacts

[quote][quote]
Quote:



Amidst all the doom and gloom facing the automobile industry, right now is ironically an opportune time for car enthusiasts. Power, performance, and features continue to improve, while stiff competition and a bearish market are keeping prices relatively low. How low? Take the new Chevy Cobalt SS, kitted up with a new 260-horsepower turbo engine. Its base price of $24,095 works out to $93 per horsepower. By comparison, a Corvette works out to $115 per horsepower. The Cobalt SS has the same dollar-to-power ratio as the Mustang GT. There are better horsepower bargains around, but their numbers are few.



Plus, for right around $25,000—with two exceptions—this group of seven hopped-up economy cars offers more than just simple speed. All the cars in this group come with four- or five-passenger versatility and at least some degree of four-cylinder fuel frugality inherited from their economy-car roots. The point is you can get a whole lot of car without having to pay a whole lot of money.



We drove this fresh crop of sports cars south to Kentucky, where gas prices were not as high as Michigan’s (thanks, global economic crisis!), dogs are more common sights on the roads than other cars, and you can get whatever you want at a restaurant as long as it’s deep-fried. The cars proved adept at avoiding the canines, but our staffers suffered several head-on collisions with fried pickles.



09 Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart





Seventh place: Dirty speed, done dirt cheap.
Whoops. Just as Mitsubishi launches the Ralliart this year to go head to head with the Subaru WRX, Subie goes and adds 41 horsepower, leaving the Mitsu in a 28-hp hole. Plus, the Lancer is heaviest, by almost 300 pounds over the second-porkiest WRX. All-wheel drive helps the Ralliart achieve the second-best 0-to-60 time of 5.4 seconds, but by the 100-mph mark, the power-to-weight disadvantage relegates the Ralliart to fifth place.

The weight was a drawback elsewhere: Braking was second worst, and skidpad grip and fuel economy were poorest of the pack. On back roads, the Yokohama Advan A10 tires squealed like a stuck bunny, compromising an otherwise well-balanced chassis. Despite these handicaps, the Ralliart drew praise for its ride and handling: both supple on the highway and perfectly composed on two lanes.

We’re also fans of the Ralliart’s twin-clutch automated manual transmission, nearly identical to the one found in the Evolution MR. Ditto the paddle shifters mounted to the steering column, which are large, made of metal, and easy to find when you need them. Two other shared Evo parts, the steering wheel and especially the Recaro seats, are as comfortable as anything on the market. The only bummer hand-me-down feature is the infernal rear wing, which blocks the rearward view.

Like the Cobalt, the Ralliart suffers from the car on which it’s based. Although it got top marks for rear-seat comfort—legroom is limo-like compared with the Mini—the cheap plastic from the base Lancer comes without upgrade in the interior. For $27,165, the second-highest base price of the group, we were hoping for a little more of everything. Plus, the seats are part of a $2750 package that pushes the sticker to a hair under 30 large. Every other car save the Mini rang up near the $25,000 mark. Against this group, the Ralliart is a little short on performance, and plenty short of being a bargain.


09 Mini John Cooper Works Clubman




Sixth place: Dirty speed, done dirt cheap.
Mini has always preached a less-is-more mantra. With the John *Cooper Works Clubman, you get less—it’s the smallest and lightest of the cars here—for the most money. The $31,450 base, highest in the group, is more than the starting price for a BMW 128i. For $7100 above the sticker of a Clubman S, the John Cooper Works package adds 36 horsepower to the turbocharged engine, bigger brakes, 17-inch wheels with high-performance tires, and a stiffer, lowered suspension.

The extra grunt lops six-tenths of a second off the car’s 0-to-60-mph time and seven-tenths from the quarter-mile run. Chassis performance is where this car shines, earning a silver medal on the skidpad (0.90 g) and coming to a Porsche-level braking stop of 153 feet from 70 mph.

The numbers confirmed our driving impressions. Lengthening the wheelbase has reduced the squirrelly handling tend*encies of the Mini Cooper while not eliminating the lively, chuckable nature of the car, and there’s plenty of power for exhilarating corner exits. The steering is well weighted and full of feedback, although torque steer is ever present in lower gears. And despite a slightly heavy clutch, the pedals are placed perfectly for heel-and-toe downshifts, and the shifter moves through the gearbox’s short throws with a reassuring tightness. Its fuel-economy figures led the group, both in EPA ratings and in our as-tested results.

Other facets of the Mini don’t live up to the nimble handling. The seats (cloth, at this price) lack support, and the view out the back is partly obscured by the French doors. The rear area seats two, and only two, in relative comfort, but not before both must insert themselves awkwardly through the half-door on the passenger side.

And the radio, despite our increasing familiarity with it, continues to confound us, in both function and the odd logic behind the placement of its knobs. Unlike the charming exterior styling, the Mini’s interior looks as if it is trying too hard to be different.

In this gang, the Clubman’s thrills come at too high a price. If you’re still in love with the Mini generally, the Clubman S is a better deal by a wide margin in the fun-to-dollar department.



09 Honda Civic Si




Fifth place: Dirty speed, done dirt cheap.
The years have not been kind to the Civic Si. When the latest hot version of the Civic coupe debuted in 2006 (the sedan followed a year later), 197 horsepower was top-shelf stuff in the segment, and the rev-happy engine made working the gearbox a joyful exercise. But today, despite being the second lightest in this contest, the Civic has the poorest power-to-weight ratio and is consequently slowest in a straight line. Braking, skidpad, and lane-change performance all wound up near the bottom, no thanks to its all-season tires.

Where the Civic shines is in value. With the lowest as-tested price of $24,675, the Si comes loaded with a sunroof, navigation system, satellite radio, and an iPod-friendly USB input. And the interior design, even with the love-it-or-hate-it split instrument cluster, still works well. Thoughtful, well-placed storage cubbies are everywhere.

Not so cool is the cab-forward spaceship styling that gives birth to a giant A-pillar right in the driver’s line of sight when going around corners. The tiny front sail windows offer some help, but cornering grace is further diminished by a shortage of steering feel. Our test panel split on its opinion of the powertrain. Some found satisfaction in rowing the gears; others found the lawn mower–like torque and the consequent need to keep the revs high something of a chore.

That steering drew unanimous scorn—again. In the past, unkind words such as “video game” have been uttered in anger to describe the Si’s steering, but in all honesty, the most modern of those games’ wheels probably work better.
Chassis fundamentals in the Civic, however, are still strong. Highway ride was deemed by a few to be the best of this bunch, and the Si corners flat and remains stable under heavy braking.

The steering shortcomings put a serious damper on the fun meter, and they sap driver confidence. Combined with the lack of power, the Civic struggles to keep up with the pack. In this group, turbo power is a necessity to stay competitive




'09 Subaru Impreza WRX




Fourth place: Dirty speed, done dirt cheap.

Whoops again. Whereas Mitsubishi erred in not making the Ralliart close enough to the Evolution, Subaru’s improvements to the WRX have made its STI model nearly obsolete. For only a few hundred dollars more than the 2008 model, the 2009 WRX gets a bigger turbo and a new exhaust. Power is up 41 horses to 265, and there’s an extra 18 pound-feet of torque.

Combine that with a clutch-abusing redline launch and the WRX will get to 60 mph in 4.7 seconds, 1.1 seconds quicker than previously and three-tenths swifter than the quickest STI we tested. What’s more, the WRX puts down its power more smoothly than the peaky STI, with ample grunt from 3000 rpm. The engine’s flexibility allowed us to leave the five-speed gearbox in third through most of the handling portion of this test.

The Subaru’s suspension has been sportified, too. Front and rear springs are 43 and 42 percent stiffer and larger-diameter anti-roll bars are in place. That makes us wonder how soft the old WRX was, since this one has the softest ride in this comparo. The suspension works well to absorb unpleasant highway bumps and gives an impression of high refinement.

But the WRX has a little too much body roll while cornering, the steering and brakes are a shade too inert, and the shifter is too rubbery—factors that sap the thrills, although not nearly as much as with the Civic.

We were left wishing the rest of the WRX were as hard core as its updated engine. But then, if you want hard core, you can buy an STI for a lot more money. Given the choice, we’ll take the compromise and keep the extra cash.

09 Chevrolet Cobalt SS



Third place: Dirty speed, done dirt cheap.
A Cobalt SS finished fourth in a five-car comparison in 2005, our last comparo date with that Chevy. Back then, the Dodge SRT4 was based on a Neon, Acura still made the RSX Type-S, and the Cobalt’s supercharged four had a competitive 205 horsepower.

This, however, is a whole new Cobalt SS, and it costs just a few grand more than the old version. We got a taste during our Lightning Lap [“Chain Lightning,” November 2008], when a new 260-hp, direct-injection turbo four explained the Cobalt’s best-in-class lap time. “Must have been a ringer,” whispered office nonbelievers.

Guess again: This Cobalt is the real deal. Testimony is provided by its acceleration times, which are only a tick behind the higher-torque Mazdaspeed 3. The 5.5-second 0-to-60-mph time might have been better, but the tires struggle to put down the engine’s power. Had we used the no-lift shift feature built into the Cobalt SS, it would have been quicker than the Mazda through the quarter-mile, but our test procedure requires using the clutch pedal and lifting off the throttle to shift.

Check out the chassis numbers as well: first place in skidpad (an impressive 0.92 g) and second place through the lane change. Whoever was in charge of setting up the Cobalt—we suspect GM’s performance pooh-bah John Heinricy had some input—got it dialed in perfectly. The Cobalt is fun to drive, but it’s also amazingly well composed, and not just for a Cobalt. The steering, brakes, transmission, and suspension are all contenders in this class.

Unfortunately, the Cobalt SS is still, at its roots, a Cobalt. The sedan comes without a wing, thankfully, but otherwise there’s little dress-up from the base car except for some pretty five-spoke wheels and Recaro seats. The interior is well laid out but it’s bland, and the plastics are a testament to GM’s (hopefully) bygone lowest-bidder strategy, and they’re woefully cheap-looking. But considering how much ground Chevy has gained in such a short time with this car, we’re eagerly awaiting the next iteration.

09 Volkswagen GTI




Second place: Dirty speed, done dirt cheap.
Despite losing to the Mazdaspeed 3 in a May 2007 comparison test, we decided to bring back the 10Best-winning GTI for another go. This time we equipped it with the dual-clutch automated manual and kept the frills to a minimum. With its second-place finish, the GTI did not *disappoint.

Atop our list of praise for the Vee-Dub is the simple but stylish interior. Everyone loved the plaid trim and the supportive seats, and a steering wheel that adjusts for rake and reach helped the car earn top marks for driver comfort. The GTI is even comfortable for your feet, with a giant dead pedal to rest the left hoof. Refinement is up there, too, with the quietest interior at idle and 70-mph cruising.

The GTI’s performance on paper—average in the chassis department and below average in acceleration—feels better in person. Driver confidence in the GTI is high, even though the tires relinquish grip sooner than others in our competition. Complaints? Well, let’s start with the brakes, which have a long pedal travel that only gets longer as the driving heats up. The steering feel could be better. On most roads, the GTI is as buttoned-down as in every German-car stereotype you’ve heard, but some rough surfaces caused the car to bobble.



111111
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
AVANTI R5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 02:06 PM   #2
AVANTI R5
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 73805
Join Date: Nov 2004
Default

Quote:
So, you ask, why did a 10Best winner come in second best? The 10Best award is about the overall feel of a car, and our jury found the smooth GTI to be more pleasing as an everyday proposition than the hairier Mazda. The GTI’s charm and ease of use make up for the deficit in performance. But the next GTI, already announced with only a modest horsepower increase, might not be able to keep up with the ever-quicker competition.

'09 Mazdaspeed 3 Grand Touring





First place: Dirty speed, done dirt cheap.

The third time is indeed a charm for the Mazdaspeed 3, and with a new Mazda 3 on the way, it looks like this car will retire with an undefeated 3-0 comparo record. This latest win didn’t come easy. This is a strong group of cars, and each has its own appeal. Some test drivers in our group preferred the ride and handling of the Cobalt, others favored the GTI’s superior refinement, and so on throughout the field. But the Mazda, we all agreed, offers the best combination of speed, value, and sophistication.


The speed part comes courtesy of the 2.3-liter direct-injection turbo four-cylinder with its explosive power delivery and comparo-best 280 pound-feet of torque. Despite losing steam above 6000 rpm (Mazda says a smaller turbo designed for less lag and the high demands on the fuel-delivery system have trouble keeping up at high revs), the Mazdaspeed 3 pulls strongly enough from a stop to take second place in drag-strip runs. Actually, it pulls too strongly for some: Torque steer is present in the first two gears and on occasion even in third, a trait exacerbated by uneven road surfaces.



In terms of value, the Grand Touring model we tested is only $450 more than the least-expensive Civic, and includes xenon headlamps, LED taillights, rain-sensing wipers, Bose stereo, and Alcantara trim on the seats. If you can go without those luxuries, the Sport model is a mere $23,410.



Either way, the Mazda also has the largest rear-seat and cargo volume, and we rated the front and rear comfort high.
As for sophistication, we point to the high-class cabin and the way the Mazda goes down the road. Everything feels solid, such as brakes that refuse to fade and steering (torque steer notwithstanding) that returns a weighted, linear response to the driver’s input. Complaints are few: The gear shift feels slightly ropy, and the radio controls still confuse us from time to time.



So, for now, the Mazdaspeed 3 is perched atop the pocket-rocket pile.


http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...st+page-8.html
AVANTI R5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 03:09 PM   #3
boxerinside
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 191994
Join Date: Oct 2008
Default

ding ding! FIGHT!
boxerinside is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 10:24 AM   #4
Bluestreak2006
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 140536
Join Date: Feb 2007
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Woodbridge
Vehicle:
93 MR2 Turbo
Turq Pearl

Default

Wow the GTI got 2nd based on it being more bottoned up. Put slower than the rest and average handling. OK......
Bluestreak2006 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 11:02 AM   #5
ghibli99
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 90761
Join Date: Jul 2005
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Phoenix
Vehicle:
2003 S2000
Save the Manuals!

Default

That MS3GT sounds like a steal!

-Mike
ghibli99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 11:33 AM   #6
JuggernautTCW
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 169223
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default

ms3gt is a good buy but i will never ever buy a mazda because thats how much i hate their zoom zoom commercials...
JuggernautTCW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 11:40 AM   #7
Calamity Jesus
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 44501
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: in a minefield of caddishness.
Vehicle:
1984 "Skeletor from
"He-Man"

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JuggernautTCW View Post
ms3gt is a good buy but i will never ever buy a mazda because thats how much i hate their zoom zoom commercials...
Are you 10 or a girl or both?

j/k I haven't been to a Burger King since they did those chicken fries commercials.

The MS3GT is a seriously nice car for the money, though.
Calamity Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 11:47 AM   #8
dremersvision
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 141272
Join Date: Feb 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: massillon,ohio
Default

WoW i am amazed about the cobalt. A guy at my school have one and they dont look to bad.
dremersvision is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 11:55 AM   #9
jasoncps
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 159781
Join Date: Sep 2007
Vehicle:
2005 Impreza WRX STI

Default

More horrible Subaru reviews.

Remember the days when a WRX would have absolutely destroyed anything in it's price range. Comparos like this did not even take place because you would need to compare the WRX with cars much more expensive. My God, other manufacturers are passing Subaru by at an alarming rate. So sad. The STI is the joke of the industry, and now even the "upgraded" WRX is falling behind the likes of Chevy's, Mazda's, and VW's!

It's just so sad to see how Subaru's WRX brand, in a matter of 5-6 years, went from monster to mouse.

Im telling you guys, if the STI is not an absolute beast for 2010, you can say bye bye to the STI line in America due to poor sales.
jasoncps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 12:10 PM   #10
JuggernautTCW
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 169223
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default

^^ naw man... sti is boosting the sales for the "mini suv" segment now. its def not for the original group of enthusiasts but good for another group. its sad not because it wont sell... but because subaru has lost its flagship performance vehicle.

imagine if chevy drops a v6 into the vette and shrink it a bit to save weight... maybe it would sell but still lame.
JuggernautTCW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 12:11 PM   #11
wrxskier18
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 88005
Join Date: May 2005
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Baltimore, MD
Vehicle:
2002 WRX PSM
GS500

Default

What I don't get is why the GTI never wins a comparison test, but yet it in the 10Best Cars while the ms3 always wins (except for once i think) and gets kicked off the list. I guess it's now as confusing as a Malibu getting the same award and then placing 4th in a comparo test the next month.
wrxskier18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 01:11 PM   #12
fogdor
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 45726
Join Date: Oct 2003
Vehicle:
2007 Mazdaspeed3
Cosmic Blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasoncps View Post
More horrible Subaru reviews.

Remember the days when a WRX would have absolutely destroyed anything in it's price range. Comparos like this did not even take place because you would need to compare the WRX with cars much more expensive. My God, other manufacturers are passing Subaru by at an alarming rate. So sad. The STI is the joke of the industry, and now even the "upgraded" WRX is falling behind the likes of Chevy's, Mazda's, and VW's!

It's just so sad to see how Subaru's WRX brand, in a matter of 5-6 years, went from monster to mouse.

Im telling you guys, if the STI is not an absolute beast for 2010, you can say bye bye to the STI line in America due to poor sales.
I remember when they reviewed the WRX against the friggin Audi S4
fogdor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 01:58 PM   #13
corruptor
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 12961
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: SF Bay Area
Vehicle:
2012 Mustang GT
Blue

Default

wow, the cobalt actually looks nice from the exterior in that pic. haven't sat in one, but if the interior is decent, it's a winner!
corruptor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 03:04 PM   #14
askjeffro
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 164018
Join Date: Nov 2007
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Colorado
Vehicle:
2008 WRX 5 door
WR Blue of course!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxskier18 View Post
What I don't get is why the GTI never wins a comparison test, but yet it in the 10Best Cars while the ms3 always wins (except for once i think) and gets kicked off the list. I guess it's now as confusing as a Malibu getting the same award and then placing 4th in a comparo test the next month.
10 best = best overall car
Comparison test = best value for compact racer

Slightly different goals for each ranking system.

That said, I usually disagree with their ratings quite a bit.
askjeffro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 03:22 PM   #15
Capt Crunch
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 10852
Join Date: Oct 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Cleveland / UMD College Park
Vehicle:
Then : JDM Ver 7 STi
Now : E46 M3 / MKVI GTI

Default

I'm not surprised:

Capt Crunch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 04:28 PM   #16
nikiter
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 190942
Join Date: Oct 2008
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Location: Waterloo/Markham
Vehicle:
2006 Impreza WRX
JDM STi 6 Speed

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasoncps View Post
More horrible Subaru reviews.

Remember the days when a WRX would have absolutely destroyed anything in it's price range. Comparos like this did not even take place because you would need to compare the WRX with cars much more expensive. My God, other manufacturers are passing Subaru by at an alarming rate. So sad. The STI is the joke of the industry, and now even the "upgraded" WRX is falling behind the likes of Chevy's, Mazda's, and VW's!

It's just so sad to see how Subaru's WRX brand, in a matter of 5-6 years, went from monster to mouse.

Im telling you guys, if the STI is not an absolute beast for 2010, you can say bye bye to the STI line in America due to poor sales.

wrong my friend......sti is still a monster

out of all those cars i test drove

that new mini (at the track), GTI (auto trany, aslo at the track), '08 WRX (hatch, NOT 265), '08 Si (coupe), Turbo charged coupe Cobalt SS(without LSD, that was an option), MazdaSpeed3

so the only thing i haven't driven is the new awd RaliArt

for me it would be in this order:

1.MS3 (despite the torque steer is a very fun car to drive)
2.MiniClub (no one came close to handeling of this purky car)
3.GTi (all around was giving good results at obsticle track)
4.WRX (waaay too much body roll, funny how they said the same thing)
5.Cobalt SS Turbo (wait till they come down in price, LSD is a must)
6.Honda Si (over priced for what it is)

i was kinda dissapointed with Cobalt....i pushed her pretty hard but still didn't give me the "WOW!" factor that everyone is talking about...the gear switching without clutch was interesting..
nikiter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 05:13 PM   #17
Derbagger
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 32113
Join Date: Jan 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Trollhatten, Japan
Vehicle:
05 Saabaru
Satin Grey

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikiter View Post
wrong my friend......sti is still a monster

out of all those cars i test drove

that new mini (at the track), GTI (auto trany, aslo at the track), '08 WRX (hatch, NOT 265), '08 Si (coupe), Turbo charged coupe Cobalt SS(without LSD, that was an option), MazdaSpeed3

so the only thing i haven't driven is the new awd RaliArt

for me it would be in this order:

1.MS3 (despite the torque steer is a very fun car to drive)
2.MiniClub (no one came close to handeling of this purky car)
3.GTi (all around was giving good results at obsticle track)
4.WRX (waaay too much body roll, funny how they said the same thing)
5.Cobalt SS Turbo (wait till they come down in price, LSD is a must)
6.Honda Si (over priced for what it is)

i was kinda dissapointed with Cobalt....i pushed her pretty hard but still didn't give me the "WOW!" factor that everyone is talking about...the gear switching without clutch was interesting..
Funny, C&D also said the SS didn't wow them when they did the track war article at VIR, until it posted a killer time. If you want drama, go buy a used Saab Viggen.
Derbagger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 06:39 PM   #18
Fireball1
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 151870
Join Date: Jun 2007
Default

260+ hp to the front wheels FTL

The problem? Physics & division of labor.

First, physics: The natural tendency of a car under acceleration is weight transfer from the front of the car to the rear of the car. This puts downward pressure on the rear tires and lifts pressure off the front tires. The result is good traction for rear wheel drive cars and poor traction for front wheel drive cars. This problem can be compensated for somewhat via traction control, stability control & torque reduction programs, but why bother having 260+ hp if you can't use it all?

Second, division of labor: a front wheel drive car requires the front wheels to accelerate the car, steer the car, stop the car and suspend the car while the back wheels just stop & suspend the car. This imbalance is manifested in the form of teeth gnashing while trying to accelerate around turns (more so on rough pavement) in a front wheel drive car.

Front wheel drive performance cars are not all bad, but there is a reason the world's supercars -- GTR/R8/911T/Veyron -- are not front wheel drive but rather all wheel drive.

For $25k you get a supercar drivetrain configuration in the WRX. Plus with snow tires you can climb walls.

After having owned a new car that put 270 hp to the front wheels and driven it through a snowy winter, my ranking of these cars are:

1. 2009 WRX (I just bought one)
2. 2009 Ralliart (not at local dealers yet, but looks like a good daily driver)
3. 2009 GTI (w/DSG it's a great little car)
4. 2009 MS3 (a superb bang-for-the-buck value and great handler)
5. 2008 Cobalt SS (never driven one but performance seems impressive)
6. 2009 Civic Si (needs a turbo badly)
7. 2009 Mini JCW (no local dealers, so haven't driven one, but expensive!)
Fireball1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 06:58 PM   #19
JuggernautTCW
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 169223
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default

^^ what you said is true BUT most people are ****ty drivers and they do nothing but street drag racing... why get AWD when the only time you use it is for bragging about the supposed handling power?

09 cobalt ss ftw...
JuggernautTCW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 07:18 PM   #20
fogdor
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 45726
Join Date: Oct 2003
Vehicle:
2007 Mazdaspeed3
Cosmic Blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireball1 View Post
260+ hp to the front wheels FTL

The problem? Physics & division of labor.

...
When I'm shopping for a six-figure-plus supercar, I'll give your advice serious consideration. When I'm shopping for an economy-class rocket, I don't want the added expense, drag, and (ahem) fragility of AWD (at least anymore). Sure, if I could get a five door hatch with RWD, I'd buy that!
fogdor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 08:04 PM   #21
law
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 36842
Join Date: May 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Germantown WI
Vehicle:
2008 STI, S2000
AW, Black

Default

Again, only idiots would play the STI off because of a few extra ponies in the WRX as if that is the reason people buy the car wow ...


I like the mazda and was suprised still that teh WRX was behind the Cobalt and the GTI... oh well, all the changes in the world and you still cannot get magazines to like it. Consider the source I guesss.

Last edited by law; 12-03-2008 at 08:10 PM.
law is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 08:07 PM   #22
Spenk
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7164
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Arizona Bay
Vehicle:
2000 Miata LS
Evo Orange Mica (1/644)

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireball1 View Post

For $25k you get a supercar drivetrain configuration in the WRX. Plus with snow tires you can climb walls.
Puh-leeze.

Ever wonder why ALL Subarus understeer? Think it might have something to do with the "dumb" (i.e. cheap) center diff that can't manage a variable torque split?

Spenk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 08:24 PM   #23
Slack
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 17548
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Atlanta, Ga
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spenk View Post
Puh-leeze.

Ever wonder why ALL Subarus understeer? Think it might have something to do with the "dumb" (i.e. cheap) center diff that can't manage a variable torque split?

It might also have to do with understeer biased stock alignment and sloppy suspension.

The GC/GM/GF model Imprezas are a bit more likely to oversteer than the GD+.
Slack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 08:35 PM   #24
Calamity Jesus
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 44501
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: in a minefield of caddishness.
Vehicle:
1984 "Skeletor from
"He-Man"

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slack View Post
It might also have to do with understeer biased stock alignment and sloppy suspension.

The GC/GM/GF model Imprezas are a bit more likely to oversteer than the GD+.
They all use the same drivetrain... and the GC and GD use the same suspension.

My GH is the most oversteeringest non-STI Subaru I've ever driven.
Calamity Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 09:30 PM   #25
JeffrWRX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 48589
Join Date: Nov 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Murrieta, CA + SAN DIEGO
Vehicle:
2002 PSM WAGON Stg2
FORTUNE/RPF1-17x9/2354017

Default

I love my DD.... Mazdaspeed 3 ;p ;p
JeffrWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WRX vs Cobalt SS vs MS3 vs Lancer RA Slo05 Non-Subaru News & Rumors 79 02-04-2009 02:54 PM
Synapse Turbo Announces 371 hp, 383 lb-ft Stage 3 Kit for Chevy Cobalt SS Turbo AVANTI R5 Non-Subaru News & Rumors 55 11-19-2008 05:36 PM
Student Project Chevy Cobalt SS will attempt to set 1st record using E85 NYCshopper Non-Subaru News & Rumors 19 08-20-2006 09:05 PM
GM releases 2 upgrade kits for Supercharged Chevy Cobalt SS & Saturn ION Redline NYCshopper Non-Subaru News & Rumors 14 04-07-2006 01:07 AM
Acura RSX vs Chevy Cobalt SS StopSweatinMe Off-Topic 27 08-12-2005 04:32 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.