Honda to Quit F1

wrxlad · 12-04-2008, 04:11 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/moto...ne/7766092.stm

Honda will quit Formula One on Friday, BBC Sport understands.

The Japanese car manufacturer are set to announce that they are selling their team, with a view to closing it down by the end of March if no buyer is found.

Sources told BBC Sport the team were "optimistic" they would continue, but no investor had yet been found.

However, according to the Reuters news agency, team bosses Ross Brawn and Nick Fry fear Honda could close the team within weeks.

According to a Reuters source, Brawn and Fry told a meeting of the Formula One Teams' Association, "They have a month to find a buyer, otherwise they are closing the team."

Honda, who recently cut road vehicle production as a response to the global economic crisis, are expected to make an announcement regarding the team's future at 0500 GMT on Friday.

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REX8 · 12-04-2008, 04:13 PM

Booo....

Chiketkd · 12-04-2008, 04:44 PM

Ouch! I guess a couple of drivers might/will be looking for new rides...

PitwrkzZ1 · 12-04-2008, 04:48 PM

This does suck, but its a good move on Honda's part imo. Now they can focus on their LMP program.

HoRo1 · 12-04-2008, 04:48 PM

The first domino falls.

Who will be next?

STi-MAN · 12-04-2008, 04:52 PM

from what i saw on the last races, they were so far off from being competitive.. still sad tho.

artkevin · 12-04-2008, 04:59 PM

I'm sure there will be plenty written about this in the coming days but how does this affect the Concord Agreement. Isn't FOM required to have 20 cars/10 teams at the 1st race of the season? If they break their contract with this does that give the teams the right to re-negotiate early?

So many questions. Let's hope that they (Honda and Bernie) find an investor or buyer.

Longinus · 12-04-2008, 05:22 PM

What a chitty year

wrxlad · 12-04-2008, 05:54 PM

Shock announcement : Ross Brawn is going to Force India!

Not really, but it does kind of make me wonder where Brawn will end up, he'll be sought after by a lot of teams and guiding the McLaren/Force India package might be a fun project for him.

Ferg · 12-04-2008, 06:24 PM

news already broke in the big F1 thread this morning..and as for the state of things you might have just as well titled your thread "blank to quit F1".

Quote:

Originally Posted by PitwrkzZ1

This does suck, but its a good move on Honda's part imo. Now they can focus on their LMP program.

and how long do you expect that to survive if things don't turn around?

obsnw · 12-04-2008, 06:30 PM

subaru should buy it. Ha.

Ferg · 12-04-2008, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by artkevin

I'm sure there will be plenty written about this in the coming days but how does this affect the Concord Agreement. Isn't FOM required to have 20 cars/10 teams at the 1st race of the season? If they break their contract with this does that give the teams the right to re-negotiate early?

So many questions. Let's hope that they (Honda and Bernie) find an investor or buyer.

Well the teams could be forced to run three cars but with Concord having lapsed I don't know if the 20 car minimum is still even in effect...

Anyway I hope no one is surprised by this. F1 has been placed at the mercy of the auto manufacturers and as history has shown repeatedly, they'll pull out the moment they want and or need to.

ptclaus98 · 12-04-2008, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by obsnw

toyota should buy it. Ha.

They already have a team.

cazwrx187 · 12-04-2008, 07:03 PM

I don't why they would do this with KERS becoming mandatory for next year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by obsnw

subaru should buy it. Ha.

No

chkltcow · 12-04-2008, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferg

Well the teams could be forced to run three cars but with Concord having lapsed I don't know if the 20 car minimum is still even in effect...

Anyway I hope no one is surprised by this. F1 has been placed at the mercy of the auto manufacturers and as history has shown repeatedly, they'll pull out the moment they want and or need to.

http://www.concordeagreement.com/Clause5.html

Quote:

Clause 5.3.2 states that the signatories agree to provide a third car if the number of cars entered for a race falls below a certain point.

Also....
http://www.concordeagreement.com/FullConcorde.pdf

Quote:

10.3 Each competitor shall participate in each Event with the number of cars entered by it for the FIA F1 Championship, of which such Event forms part. In default, the competitor concerned shall subject as herein provided be liable to make a payment (a "Payment") to such Promoters in accordance with Schedule 9 hereto unless the F1 Commission decide to cancel the requirement for such competitor to make the Payment or to reduce the amount of the Payment to be made.

Basically it sounds like Honda will be fined for backing out of the races. "Payment" in quotes makes me feel the fine will involve participation in a Max Mosley sex party

Quote:

10.4 The parties agree to use their best endeavours to ensure that at least sixteen cars compete in the FIA F1 Championship, and if less than sixteen cars have entered or are available to compete it is agreed that the FIA can, notwithstanding any other provision in this Agreement, make such changes as are necessary to the FIA Formula One Sporting and Technical Regulations to enable enough F3000 cars (or cars eligible for the principal qualifying championship for drivers superlicenses if different) to compete in the relevant F1 FIA Championship to ensure that at least sixteen cars take part in each Event.

THIS one is really interesting to me, had it not been changed. Sounds like if there aren't enough teams, we'd see GP2 cars competing with the F1 cars... but unfortunately it looks like the new regs just say certain teams will be chosen to run 3rd cars without points.

Ferg · 12-04-2008, 07:34 PM

I get that but the Concord Agreement lapsed last year. Does anyone really know what if anything can be enforced from the old agreement?

wvallwheeldrive · 12-05-2008, 06:37 AM

I thought they signed a new Concord Agreement the same reason Prodrive couldn't run customer cars.

Howl · 12-05-2008, 07:43 AM

I wonder if this is partially due to F1 pulling out if North America. Honda's main reason for having a team was to improve their image so people take their cars seriously. When they show that their cars can hang with the Porsches and Ferraris it greatly improves their sales. Honda's biggest market is North America. They do sell a lot cars in Europe and other parts of the world but NA is the big enchilada. They're not going to spend millions of dollars on F1 development if they can get better results (i.e. better car sales) by concentrating on a NA series - like ALMS or NASCAR.

kfoote · 12-05-2008, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chkltcow

...Basically it sounds like Honda will be fined for backing out of the races...

I think that would only apply if they have officially entered (and submitted payment for) the 2009 championship. I'm not sure when the deadlines are, but I suspect that part of Honda potentially making the announcement this early would get around that issue.

benjam83 · 12-05-2008, 10:48 AM

That sucks for Rubens and Jensen. It's so late now, that neither of them would be likely to find a team for the 09 season.

Hites · 12-05-2008, 11:16 AM

formula 1 inspired engine in nsx? no?

VIR EURORALLY · 12-05-2008, 12:28 PM

Just announced on CNN, Honda did quit F1 for 2009.

chimchimm5 · 12-05-2008, 02:04 PM

Where will VTEC3 come from???!??!!?!??!!

bitterWRX · 12-05-2008, 02:20 PM

I'm surprised they didn't pull out sooner. After Honda purchased them, they became terrible... killing my favorite team, BAR.

kfoote · 12-05-2008, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoRo1

The first domino falls.

Who will be next?

Audi, sort of.

Audi is pulling factory support from ALMS next year.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...1BA72C2B827%7D

12-04-2008, 04:11 PM	#1
wrxlad Scooby Newbie Member#: 103317 Join Date: Dec 2005	Honda to Quit F1 http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/moto...ne/7766092.stm Honda will quit Formula One on Friday, BBC Sport understands. The Japanese car manufacturer are set to announce that they are selling their team, with a view to closing it down by the end of March if no buyer is found. Sources told BBC Sport the team were "optimistic" they would continue, but no investor had yet been found. However, according to the Reuters news agency, team bosses Ross Brawn and Nick Fry fear Honda could close the team within weeks. According to a Reuters source, Brawn and Fry told a meeting of the Formula One Teams' Association, "They have a month to find a buyer, otherwise they are closing the team." Honda, who recently cut road vehicle production as a response to the global economic crisis, are expected to make an announcement regarding the team's future at 0500 GMT on Friday. * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

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12-04-2008, 04:13 PM	#2
REX8 Scooby Guru Member#: 24038 Join Date: Sep 2002 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Godspeed Cale...	Booo....

12-04-2008, 04:44 PM	#3
Chiketkd Scooby Guru Member#: 71634 Join Date: Sep 2004 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: C-Ville, VA Vehicle: In hibernation...	Ouch! I guess a couple of drivers might/will be looking for new rides...

12-04-2008, 04:48 PM	#4
PitwrkzZ1 Scooby Specialist Member#: 94316 Join Date: Aug 2005 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Northern Westchester Vehicle: 2002 WRX STX R4C3R doood	This does suck, but its a good move on Honda's part imo. Now they can focus on their LMP program.

12-04-2008, 04:48 PM	#5
HoRo1 Scooby Specialist Member#: 15618 Join Date: Feb 2002 Chapter/Region: International Location: Zhuhai, China	The first domino falls. Who will be next?

12-04-2008, 04:52 PM	#6
STi-MAN Scooby Guru Member#: 70252 Join Date: Sep 2004 Vehicle: 05 STI blue	from what i saw on the last races, they were so far off from being competitive.. still sad tho.

12-04-2008, 04:59 PM	#7
artkevin Scooby Specialist Member#: 31097 Join Date: Dec 2002 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: The Sweaty H, TX Vehicle: 2010 Acura ZDX Grey	I'm sure there will be plenty written about this in the coming days but how does this affect the Concord Agreement. Isn't FOM required to have 20 cars/10 teams at the 1st race of the season? If they break their contract with this does that give the teams the right to re-negotiate early? So many questions. Let's hope that they (Honda and Bernie) find an investor or buyer.

12-04-2008, 05:22 PM	#8
Longinus Scooby Specialist Member#: 187727 Join Date: Aug 2008 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: Los Angeles Vehicle: 2001 GC6 Impreza BRP with a dash of mud	What a chitty year

12-04-2008, 05:54 PM	#9
wrxlad Scooby Newbie Member#: 103317 Join Date: Dec 2005	Shock announcement : Ross Brawn is going to Force India! Not really, but it does kind of make me wonder where Brawn will end up, he'll be sought after by a lot of teams and guiding the McLaren/Force India package might be a fun project for him.

12-04-2008, 06:30 PM	#11
obsnw Scooby Specialist Member#: 174739 Join Date: Mar 2008 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Damn Rascals, Dig It Vehicle: I drinka now... I drinka juice	subaru should buy it. Ha.

12-04-2008, 07:34 PM	#16
Ferg "Tekeli-li! Tekeli-li!" Moderator Member#: 14145 Join Date: Jan 2002 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Top Scoob HQ Vehicle: '02 WRX Cars? Stupid!	I get that but the Concord Agreement lapsed last year. Does anyone really know what if anything can be enforced from the old agreement?

12-05-2008, 06:37 AM	#17
wvallwheeldrive Scooby Specialist Member#: 92411 Join Date: Jul 2005 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: I require a proof reader Vehicle: 2009 WRX WRB	I thought they signed a new Concord Agreement the same reason Prodrive couldn't run customer cars.

12-05-2008, 07:43 AM	#18
Howl Scooby Specialist Member#: 57830 Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ontario CA Vehicle: 1999 OBS	I wonder if this is partially due to F1 pulling out if North America. Honda's main reason for having a team was to improve their image so people take their cars seriously. When they show that their cars can hang with the Porsches and Ferraris it greatly improves their sales. Honda's biggest market is North America. They do sell a lot cars in Europe and other parts of the world but NA is the big enchilada. They're not going to spend millions of dollars on F1 development if they can get better results (i.e. better car sales) by concentrating on a NA series - like ALMS or NASCAR.

12-05-2008, 10:48 AM	#20
benjam83 Scooby Newbie Member#: 136400 Join Date: Jan 2007 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Central Illinois Vehicle: 2012 WRX SWP	That sucks for Rubens and Jensen. It's so late now, that neither of them would be likely to find a team for the 09 season.

12-05-2008, 11:16 AM	#21
Hites Scooby Specialist Member#: 138997 Join Date: Jan 2007 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Belle Center, OH Vehicle: 0000 Nothing	formula 1 inspired engine in nsx? no?

12-05-2008, 12:28 PM	#22
VIR EURORALLY Scooby Specialist Member#: 53517 Join Date: Jan 2004 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Flat4VA Vehicle: STi Outback STi	Just announced on CNN, Honda did quit F1 for 2009.

12-05-2008, 02:04 PM	#23
chimchimm5 Scooby Guru Member#: 88501 Join Date: Jun 2005 Chapter/Region: BAIC Location: NorCal Vehicle: 2006 WRX Wagon CGM	Where will VTEC3 come from???!??!!?!??!!

12-05-2008, 02:20 PM	#24
bitterWRX Scooby Specialist Member#: 49624 Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: CA Vehicle: 04 AW WRX 13 SWP STi	I'm surprised they didn't pull out sooner. After Honda purchased them, they became terrible... killing my favorite team, BAR.