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Old 02-01-2009, 08:30 PM   #126
RaceFaceXC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcware View Post
I had the same problem, especially on initial startup. After running the intake for a while I took the pipe off and the contact had worn through the paint. I had some 3m double sided tape in the garage so I covered the worn area with that and left the opposite side of the tape on. This solved the problem because the 3m double sided tape is sort of thick, foamy, and padded. An alternative would be to use a strip of door/window insulation foam. Since the tape isn't visible when the pipe is installed the looks aren't affected.




When I did my hybrid install I examined this sensor and the torque box closely and it does feed into the torque box. The black bracket is hollow like a straw and connects to a black hose which travels to the bottom of the torque box. From the bottom of the torque box there appears to be a channel that ends where the torque box connects to the throttle body. If you look you'll see a small hole in the white part of the plastic in the interior of the torque box. From what I can see this appears to be channeling air JUST before it enters the throttle body. This may be a change from the 07, however. I will take some pictures when I get home tonight and show you what I mean.
It must be changed for the 08 model. Which doesnt make much sense, since its probably measuring the same thing if its a identical looking sensor. In the 07 model, it only has plumbing down to what looks like the crankcase. It has no plumbing into the airbox.
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Old 02-01-2009, 09:41 PM   #127
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Would any harm be caused to the engine if I were to not tune for a new hybrid intake?

and, how much will the accessports be when they come out?
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Old 02-01-2009, 10:35 PM   #128
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i feel like i'm getting a cold, but i'm gonna get those pictures when i get home around midnight.

camg3:

no harm will come to the vehicle without a tune. if the car gets dangerously lean the check engine light will come on or you'd hear knocking. the hybrid intake is fairly conservative with respect to airflow, so this is a nonissue. tuning may improve performance and allow the vehicle to take advantage of the less restrictive intake, but the lack of a tune won't harm anything.
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Old 02-02-2009, 02:16 PM   #129
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Sweet, thanks bcware.

Does anyone have information on the na AP?
I haven't read any solid information on it and have only heard rumors about it.

Would the pp6 system on rallitek be a good alternative?

Thanks
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Old 02-02-2009, 06:04 PM   #130
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pp6 is a pretty different set up (piggyback versus reflash). Sean at Rallitek has confirmed a N/A AP is on the way.
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Old 02-02-2009, 06:59 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcware View Post
i feel like i'm getting a cold, but i'm gonna get those pictures when i get home around midnight.

camg3:

no harm will come to the vehicle without a tune. if the car gets dangerously lean the check engine light will come on or you'd hear knocking. the hybrid intake is fairly conservative with respect to airflow, so this is a nonissue. tuning may improve performance and allow the vehicle to take advantage of the less restrictive intake, but the lack of a tune won't harm anything.
thats grossly over simplified and in the short term it may not cause any damage, but in the long term it can be more dangerous. also, if you can audibly hear knocking, you have serious problems. there are other reasons why driving around for any significant length of time without rescaling your MAFv table would be bad. besides, without a tune, you will gain almost no power from an SRI/CAI or the hybrid. the 3 or 4 hp you do gain, is at close to redline and its hardly worth the possible engine problems down the road.
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Old 02-03-2009, 09:30 AM   #132
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first off, i apologize for the delays. i am riddled with flu. i get out of work early today and should be able to post some pictures this afternoon.

i don't think damage is impossible, it's just my opinion that with a few bolt-ons it isn't likely to occur. i do agree, however, that the gains won't be as significant.
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Old 02-03-2009, 03:13 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battlesnake99 View Post
pp6 is a pretty different set up (piggyback versus reflash). Sean at Rallitek has confirmed a N/A AP is on the way.
Got any details on it?
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Old 02-03-2009, 03:49 PM   #134
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Old 02-03-2009, 06:29 PM   #135
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ok, so here are the pictures and such.

first, my final hybrid intake as it stands right now:



second, the white sensor:



third, the torque box:





if you follow the white sensor there is a pathway for air to flow down the large diameter rubber hose that is attached. i stuck the torque box in the sink and ran water down the opening where this rubber tube attaches and the water escaped through the hose opening on the left side (below my thumb in the picture).
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Old 02-03-2009, 06:51 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcware View Post





if you follow the white sensor there is a pathway for air to flow down the large diameter rubber hose that is attached. i stuck the torque box in the sink and ran water down the opening where this rubber tube attaches and the water escaped through the hose opening on the left side (below my thumb in the picture).
On my 07, the white sensor is clipped onto circular protrusion on the box at the top next to the mount. The tubes sticking out at the bottom of the box are all just plumbed into the box for vac to the valve covers/drains to valve covers for oil drawn up under high vac conditions?
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Old 02-03-2009, 08:26 PM   #137
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took my hybrid off today. . .after a week or two of drivin, getting a good feel for how it changed my car, i didnt like it. lack of throttle respsonse and low end power, only gained on top end. put my stock stuff back on and im much happier. i shouldnt test out parts and review them when i got a good buzz goin lol
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Old 02-04-2009, 02:02 PM   #138
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losing low end torque seems kind of strange. if anything i noticed an increase.

in what situations did you notice a loss?

for me i test low-end torque by driving up-hill at 2,000 rpms or less. after installing my intake i noticed a difference in driving up hills i regularly travel on daily. i am less prone to having to downshift in these situations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceFaceXC View Post
On my 07, the white sensor is clipped onto circular protrusion on the box at the top next to the mount. The tubes sticking out at the bottom of the box are all just plumbed into the box for vac to the valve covers/drains to valve covers for oil drawn up under high vac conditions?
it does simply attach to the top circular protrusion (clips on), but there is a definite path into the bottom protrusion where the large diameter rubber hose attaches. i couldn't pretend to know what the function of this pathway or the white sensor is, just that there is a channel from the torque box to the white sensor.

Last edited by bcware; 02-04-2009 at 02:33 PM.
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Old 02-04-2009, 09:57 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcware View Post
losing low end torque seems kind of strange. if anything i noticed an increase.

in what situations did you notice a loss?

for me i test low-end torque by driving up-hill at 2,000 rpms or less. after installing my intake i noticed a difference in driving up hills i regularly travel on daily. i am less prone to having to downshift in these situations.
I gotta agree with you there. I only noticed an increase over the entire rev range. Are there others out there that lost low end torque?
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Old 02-05-2009, 09:10 AM   #140
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sick! looking into this
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Old 02-08-2009, 01:53 PM   #141
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hey RaceFace, I can't find the thread williaty posted about the MAFv rescaling. Tried a search and checked the sri/cai sticky couldn't find it. do you remember where it is?
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Old 02-08-2009, 04:17 PM   #142
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this one?

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1427448

PM me next time, so you dont post off topic.
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Old 02-12-2009, 03:58 AM   #143
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I decided to take the hybrid intake off my 08 2.5i auto.
With Automatic it is just not worth it. Car became very slow to react in low end. So gone back to stock and loving it much better.
So I have pipe uncut with all the attachments in LA area if anyone wants one.
ill let it go for around 70 with all the attachments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gshabanov View Post
RaceFaceXC your absolutely corect.
I noticed it finally after I took it apart.
Finished install last night. Also I did not cut the pipe in 2 pieces. I just kind of aligned it and clamped. Doen't seem to be any air leaks.
Reset the battery. Couldnt start the car for 3 to 4 seconds was cranking next morning then fired up and all is well. Perhaps was adjusting.

Took for the drive in the morning sounds a bit louder then stock but not too bad. Mine is an Automatic. I used to have a hesitation on shifts and small vibration through out the dashboard like the RPM is too low when I would drive with a light foot. Now seems a lot smoother. When Auto in Sport Mode I actually noticed that it's alot smoother also.

But I have to say that there is some low end loss in power so far. Perhaps I will wait till car adjusts to new air flow.
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Old 03-08-2009, 04:35 PM   #144
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So you guys think it's not worth putting on the hybrid intake unless you tune the MAFv? I don't plan on tuning anything if I got one so maybe I should just stay stock.

Also, what's going on with the AccessPort? Shouldn't it already be out by now?

Last edited by iyzmi; 03-08-2009 at 05:12 PM.
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Old 03-08-2009, 06:16 PM   #145
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I noticed a small gain without a tune, so I would recommend it especially considering how cheap it is.
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Old 03-08-2009, 07:33 PM   #146
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I'm more concerned about the long term effects of getting an intake without a tune...
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Old 03-08-2009, 09:27 PM   #147
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if you dont rescale your MAFv table after doing any type of intake mod your ECU will be fueling incorrectly. the ECU will be able to compensate eventually to a small degree but even after the fuel learning has "adapted", it will still be off in openloop. and thats to say that it will be able to adapt enough... the ECU can only make up for so much error.

The long term effects could be poor performance and higher fuel consumption from a rich condition or knock, high CHT's/EGT's and potential broken pistons or burned valves. probably a bunch of other things, too

FWIW my stock closed loop scaling (where the ECU can make up for some of the difference, kinda) was not that far off but my openloop MAFv scaling (the higher load areas) was moderately to severely out out of calibration. So it basically just a very bad idea not to rescale your MAFv table, IMO. also, you will need a wide band O2 sensor to rescale your openloop MAFv.
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Old 03-08-2009, 09:41 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceFaceXC View Post
if you dont rescale your MAFv table after doing any type of intake mod your ECU will be fueling incorrectly. the ECU will be able to compensate eventually to a small degree but even after the fuel learning has "adapted", it will still be off in openloop. and thats to say that it will be able to adapt enough... the ECU can only make up for so much error.

The long term effects could be poor performance and higher fuel consumption from a rich condition or knock, high CHT's/EGT's and potential broken pistons or burned valves. probably a bunch of other things, too

FWIW my stock closed loop scaling (where the ECU can make up for some of the difference, kinda) was not that far off but my openloop MAFv scaling (the higher load areas) was moderately to severely out out of calibration. So it basically just a very bad idea not to rescale your MAFv table, IMO. also, you will need a wide band O2 sensor to rescale your openloop MAFv.
most people dont know how to do that kinda stuff. and even if i did do the research i really don't think i would trust myself doing it. if someone posted up a copy of their tune for their 2.5i for the same mods as me that i could just flash onto my ecu i would probably do that.
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Old 03-08-2009, 10:14 PM   #149
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^word.
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Old 03-08-2009, 11:38 PM   #150
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I really think all of that is overkill, but I won't say it's impossible that something could go wrong. I've driven over 100,000 n/a untuned bolt-on miles in two different cars and never had an issue. I have also never heard of anyone damaging their engine with intake/header/exhaust. Is this a subaru thing?
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