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Old 12-12-2008, 12:14 PM   #1
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Default Japan reinvents the motor:

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Japanese carmakers are rethinking their engine strategies, . Suzuki, which produces 12 different engines with displacements of 2 liters or less, plans to cut this number to about four. Mazda will begin designing parts so they can be used in engines of different sizes. The use of common parts is expected to lower costs by sharply reducing the overall parts count. All companies want to use the savings for R&D into greener technologies.
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Old 12-12-2008, 12:16 PM   #2
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6.1L supercharged mated w/ TR6060.... anyone?
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Old 12-12-2008, 12:24 PM   #3
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Genius!!
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Old 12-12-2008, 12:43 PM   #4
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Good. Trickle those savings down to the consumer as well, please.

-Mike
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Old 12-12-2008, 03:29 PM   #5
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sounds familiar. anybody remember that engine called the small block chevy. wasnt that thing kinda popular and successful?
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Old 12-12-2008, 03:42 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by ghibli99 View Post
Good. Trickle those savings down to the consumer as well, please.

-Mike
It says they want to spend what they save on green tech. If you consider the trickle-down of green tech 'consumer savings'.. then you're in good shape.
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Old 12-12-2008, 05:24 PM   #7
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The MZR (Mazda) 2.0/2.3/ now 2.5L 4cylinder motors are already common enough. Wonder if that means no more rotary motors from Mazda for a while.
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Old 12-12-2008, 05:56 PM   #8
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Just keep the 2L, put it in everything.

2L Hayabusa. Sweet.
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Old 12-12-2008, 06:18 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Hites View Post
sounds familiar. anybody remember that engine called the small block chevy. wasnt that thing kinda popular and successful?
HAHAHA, heck yeah I do! One engine: 283, 302, 305, 307, 327, 350, and 400 cubic inches, plus a common aftermarket 383 option. And a 4.3L V-6 that used many of the same internals and factory tooling (basically a small block with 2 cylinders lopped off). You mean the same ubiquitous small block that was found in the majority of Chevy's models from 1955 into the 1990s with minimal modification and offered anywhere from the mid-100hp range to around 400hp (give or take) through out it's life? The same one that was fuel injected and making 1hp per cubic inch in the orginal Corvette (50+ years ago)?

Hites makes a good point here guys. It's not like this is exactly a brand new philosphy of engine design. BTW, there are no modern engines that pull like a chevy small block with 2 turbochargers added on for anywhere near as little money.

I have always wondered why GM never applied this winning formula to one versatile 4 cylinder design spanning a number of different displacements, a philosphy that had worked so well for the v8. I mean had they taken the original fuel inected 283hp 283 cubic inch small block and cut it in half, they could have had a 2.3L 4 cylinder easily making 141hp by the early 1960s, something a lot of well regarded japanese manufacturers have only managed in the last decade in naturally asiprated form. Seems like this would have been the way to go during the 70s fuel crunch. But instead they made a bunch of complete junk 4 and 6 cylinder mills and it's been all down hill from there.

Last edited by jhargis; 12-12-2008 at 06:30 PM.
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Old 12-13-2008, 01:21 AM   #10
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6.1L supercharged mated w/ TR6060.... anyone?
yes please!!!!
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Old 12-13-2008, 07:38 AM   #11
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Thanks.
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Old 12-14-2008, 11:47 AM   #12
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I had to laugh when i saw this. Just as others have pointed out, chevy was doing this 50 years ago.

Brings back memories of my 76 Nova. You gotta love the SBC.
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Old 12-15-2008, 02:19 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhargis View Post
HAHAHA, heck yeah I do! One engine: 283, 302, 305, 307, 327, 350, and 400 cubic inches, plus a common aftermarket 383 option. And a 4.3L V-6 that used many of the same internals and factory tooling (basically a small block with 2 cylinders lopped off). You mean the same ubiquitous small block that was found in the majority of Chevy's models from 1955 into the 1990s with minimal modification and offered anywhere from the mid-100hp range to around 400hp (give or take) through out it's life? The same one that was fuel injected and making 1hp per cubic inch in the orginal Corvette (50+ years ago)?

Hites makes a good point here guys. It's not like this is exactly a brand new philosphy of engine design. BTW, there are no modern engines that pull like a chevy small block with 2 turbochargers added on for anywhere near as little money.

I have always wondered why GM never applied this winning formula to one versatile 4 cylinder design spanning a number of different displacements, a philosphy that had worked so well for the v8. I mean had they taken the original fuel inected 283hp 283 cubic inch small block and cut it in half, they could have had a 2.3L 4 cylinder easily making 141hp by the early 1960s, something a lot of well regarded japanese manufacturers have only managed in the last decade in naturally asiprated form. Seems like this would have been the way to go during the 70s fuel crunch. But instead they made a bunch of complete junk 4 and 6 cylinder mills and it's been all down hill from there.
you are right, they should have. But now its too late. The General makes the ecotec 4 cylinder mills, which are relatively well designed as well as refined, however, they should have been developed years prior. The early offerings from Saturn should have influenced GM a little more. Peppy, low displacement dohc motors would have been all the rage during the fuel crisis if GM had kept ahead with development.
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Old 12-15-2008, 04:38 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickyh View Post
I had to laugh when i saw this. Just as others have pointed out, chevy was doing this 50 years ago.

Brings back memories of my 76 Nova. You gotta love the SBC.

the point is they stopped doing it, and never did anything about decent 4-6 cylender mills, part of the reason they are flat broke
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Old 12-16-2008, 10:09 AM   #15
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The SAE ratings for horsepower have changed several times over the years. If you take those old blocks and measure them with todays ratings they make nowhere near 1hp per cubic inch.

Also GM has made some very impressive 4 cylinder engines through the 80's and 90's, they were not offered in the US market though.
Personally I've owned a 1986 130hp 8v 2.0l, a 1988 120hp 8v 1.8l, a 1991 150hp 16v dohc 2.0l and a 1994 204hp 16v dohc turbo 2.0l. The astounding thing is all those cars got mid 30's mpg @ 80mph on the motorway.
The technology is here. It's been here for decades. Why it isnt global, I have no clue.
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Old 12-17-2008, 12:56 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by UKscooby View Post
The SAE ratings for horsepower have changed several times over the years. If you take those old blocks and measure them with todays ratings they make nowhere near 1hp per cubic inch.

Also GM has made some very impressive 4 cylinder engines through the 80's and 90's, they were not offered in the US market though.
Personally I've owned a 1986 130hp 8v 2.0l, a 1988 120hp 8v 1.8l, a 1991 150hp 16v dohc 2.0l and a 1994 204hp 16v dohc turbo 2.0l. The astounding thing is all those cars got mid 30's mpg @ 80mph on the motorway.
The technology is here. It's been here for decades. Why it isnt global, I have no clue.
Simple the way it works at the Domestic 3 - a big wig who's been driving to the office in the largest V8 car built by his company - gets into one of the smaller vehicles up for review and production and he says right away - no way in hell will any American buy this little car with this little engine. It feels way too slow! Put a bigger engine in it. Response from the engineering team - "The only engines we have that might work are older models - managment - Really? Great we can increase the margin on the tooling by reusing the older engines so why is everyone still standing here? Put one of those older larger engines in this car and get it rolling on the production floor. Then said upper management guy walks over to his V8 car and drives down town for lunch.

Then you add the American Consumer - you have a big V8 sitting on the lot parked next to a great little 4 cyclinder car. They are priced similar. Which car do you thinking Bubba is going to finance and drive home?
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Old 12-17-2008, 02:04 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UKscooby View Post
The SAE ratings for horsepower have changed several times over the years. If you take those old blocks and measure them with todays ratings they make nowhere near 1hp per cubic inch.

Also GM has made some very impressive 4 cylinder engines through the 80's and 90's, they were not offered in the US market though.
Personally I've owned a 1986 130hp 8v 2.0l, a 1988 120hp 8v 1.8l, a 1991 150hp 16v dohc 2.0l and a 1994 204hp 16v dohc turbo 2.0l. The astounding thing is all those cars got mid 30's mpg @ 80mph on the motorway.
The technology is here. It's been here for decades. Why it isnt global, I have no clue.
True, the main difference in how they rated their engines came when they changed to net horsepower. They used to measure power without all of the belt driven accessories hooked up, and the figures did drop a bit when they started measuring their quoted hp with everything on. Nonetheless, it is not a huge undertaking to get 1hp/ci out of a carbuerated smallblock, much less something with a decent fuel injection system, even using more modern testing standards and equipment. Mind you this engine made it's debut in 1955. And also true, they have made some good 4 cylinder engines. Even the 4 cylinder mills in earlier US market Saturns were decent engines, quite reliable at least. My point was that I don't understand why they had such a successful plan working out with the small block and they didn't aim that same design philosphy at other engines... basically using one common engine block and head layout with a couple of induction designs to cover a number of different displacements and applications. They are finally kind of doing it with the ecotec, which I understand to be a pretty good engine... but it seems like applying the small block formula to small engines a long time ago would have a been a no brainer with the onset of the 70s fuel crunch.
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Old 12-17-2008, 02:11 PM   #18
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I agree that GM needed contact lenses to correct its foresight, but still, getting 350hp from a 350ci sb is still not that easy. If it were, my fi 350 Tahoe would have had more than 265hp, or should have gotten better mileage.

All discussions aside, the sbc is a wonderful engine that with alternate development could have done much better for the company. Maybe it would have been a smoother better design to have it as a V4 instead of an inline? Wasnt the 3.0 4 cylinder Mercruiser engine half a 400ci V8?
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Old 12-17-2008, 02:22 PM   #19
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The Nissan VQ engine is used in almost all their cars :P cost savings there. I use the same Nissan oil filter in the 4 cylinder QR engine that is also used in the VQ 6 cylinder and VR GTR motor!

same w/ the Subaru EJ..same motor, all over the place
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Old 12-17-2008, 02:25 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by UKscooby View Post
I agree that GM needed contact lenses to correct its foresight, but still, getting 350hp from a 350ci sb is still not that easy. If it were, my fi 350 Tahoe would have had more than 265hp, or should have gotten better mileage.

All discussions aside, the sbc is a wonderful engine that with alternate development could have done much better for the company. Maybe it would have been a smoother better design to have it as a V4 instead of an inline? Wasnt the 3.0 4 cylinder Mercruiser engine half a 400ci V8?
GMPP sells a 350hp 350 smallblock crate engine. It's one of their cheaper crate engines IIRC. The mercruiser 3.0 I4 is based on the "techIV" or "iron duke" 4 cylinder... which was a terrible engine that I believe was originally designed for industrial use in small tractors and such but soldiered on in their cars through the original fuel crunch. The only reason I remember this stuff is because I had one in a 1984 Fiero. I have no clue how they managed to get such a tiny amount of power out of a 2.5L engine. This was shortly before they had the pushrod 2.8L v-6, which managed 130-140hp, go figure.
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