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Old 12-12-2008, 02:57 PM   #1
Ferg
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Default the future of WRC Super 2000 ??

What indeed will the future regs mean for the driver and manufacturers?

Quote:
FIA confirms Super 2000 future

By Steven English Friday, December 12th 2008, 13:05 GMT



Today's World Motor Sport Council meeting confirmed that the World Rally Championship will become a Super 2000-based series from 2010, as predicted by autosport.com yesterday.

A proposal to base the WRC on both Super 2000 and Group N cars was rejected following the World Rally Championship Commission's concerns over the cost implications of trying to level the playing field between the two cars.

The decision means that every manufacturer will be forced to introduce a new car for 2010, including Subaru who only entered their new Impreza part-way through the 2008 season.

A statement from the World Motor Sport Council said: "The 2010 World Rally Car will be S2000 based. However, the removable kit, already adopted by the WMSC, will be redefined with no electronic benefits, or similar upgrades, to ensure cost reductions.

"The new S2000-based World Rally Car will only be permitted for use on World Rally Championship events."

The FIA also confirmed that Group N cars, including the existing S2000, will be retained in the Production Car World Rally Championship, and that - as predicted by autosport.com - it is in negotiations with Ralliart Italy to supply and service Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution cars for the Pirelli Star Drive winners to contest their designated WRC events in during 2009 and 2010.
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Old 12-12-2008, 03:01 PM   #2
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IBHondaSuesforuseofS2000

--kC
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Old 12-12-2008, 03:05 PM   #3
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^


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Old 12-12-2008, 03:11 PM   #4
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Am I reading that right? No more turbos, and a spec gearbox? I'd rather watch Group N.
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Old 12-12-2008, 03:15 PM   #5
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I think turbos are allowed but don't quote me on that.
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Old 12-12-2008, 03:19 PM   #6
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http://www.fia.com/resources/documen...J_Art_254A.pdf

"5.1 Engine
The nominal cylinder capacity of the car equipped with the kit (kit
variant Super 2000-Rallies) is limited to a maximum of 2000 cm3.
Supercharged engines are prohibited."

Looks like variable intake manifolds and variable valve timing are also prohibited.
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Old 12-12-2008, 03:20 PM   #7
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From a quick read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_2000

It sounds like spec gear boxes....does this mean subaru is ****ed?
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Old 12-12-2008, 03:31 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastResort View Post
From a quick read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_2000

It sounds like spec gear boxes....does this mean subaru is ****ed?
That says that they can use a 5MT with original ratios.

Maybe Subaru will finally update their 5MT gearbox...
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Old 12-12-2008, 03:37 PM   #9
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wow....two of my 3 favorite motorsports are undergoing huge changes. This sucks
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Old 12-12-2008, 03:43 PM   #10
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There are several S2000 cars out and competing in europe now Skoda Fabia, Pug 206 and 307, honda civic R-R and i think there is a citron car available as well. This really isnt that new there has been news of the S2000 class coming or being here since 2005.

S2000 was supposed to be a cost saving measure to make WRC more attractive for more makers like honda which in my opinion would pretty much hand the entire sport to honda and toyota.

All cars are 2000cc NA and just like when F1 went from turbo to NA the cost saving easily evaporates into high compression, exotic materials and gearing tech. The S2000 cars do not make the disgusting torque that the turbo cars make but have much better access to the power band and are proving to be just as fast. But by looking at some videos it appears that you really have to manhandle those engines to keep the car fast.

Just like most racing hondas or new age toyota ZZ engines
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Old 12-12-2008, 03:51 PM   #11
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This is not good for Subaru.
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Old 12-12-2008, 04:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chimchimm5 View Post
This is not good for Subaru.
At least mitsubishi has been beating the hell out of mivec since the Japan market mirage/cyborg against the Honda B engines for decades.

You are right this could really spell the end for subaru and the wrc.. i just dont see a NA high rev boxer being as efficient. 11,000rpm
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Old 12-12-2008, 04:08 PM   #13
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I wonder if Subaru would switch to a Toyota drivetrain in a joint vehicle.
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Old 12-12-2008, 04:16 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fliz View Post
I wonder if Subaru would switch to a Toyota drivetrain in a joint vehicle.
Why? AWD is allowed in S2000 Rally.

--kC
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Old 12-12-2008, 04:24 PM   #15
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From what I see it's essentially an S2000 car with a turbo, paddle shifter, and some bolt on wings. It if's truly 'wax on, wax off' kit this will at least lower the initial cost of the car, and allow anyone with an S2000 car the ability to create a WR car (assuming the manufacturer builds a kit that fits it or someone else can get one approved). How the price of the kit will stay under 30K Euro or S2000 cars in general stay under 250K is anyone's guess.

One bit that's disappointing is the requirement the kit be WRC only, which would hurt a lot of national and regional championships that today allow WR cars.

What does it mean for Subaru? Will they finally just give up on it all or actually try to build a new car?
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Old 12-12-2008, 04:26 PM   #16
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How many manufactures will quit now?
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Old 12-12-2008, 04:28 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC View Post
Why? AWD is allowed in S2000 Rally.

--kC
One reason is Subaru doesn't have a high-spec NA engine, Toyota does.

The second is, unless there is a longitudinal spec gearbox, they're going to have issues with packaging.
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Old 12-12-2008, 04:32 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC View Post
Why? AWD is allowed in S2000 Rally.

--kC
True but toyota has a very effective AWD layout too
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Old 12-12-2008, 04:33 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yotsuya View Post
paddle shifter
The pdf linked earlier indicates that all shifting must be manual

EDIT: Erp. I stand corrected.

Paddle shifters are in.

Last edited by LastResort; 12-12-2008 at 06:13 PM.
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Old 12-12-2008, 04:52 PM   #20
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The current S2000 regs aren't a 100% accurate preview of what the 2010 WRC S2000 regs will be. Remember it's "S2000-based". Everything I've read so far says turbos are in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralliart4 View Post
This really isnt that new there has been news of the S2000 class coming or being here since 2005.
Too true, it's been looming for years but now at least it's official.

Last edited by Ferg; 12-12-2008 at 04:57 PM.
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Old 12-12-2008, 05:11 PM   #21
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From WRC.com:

New World Rally Car details revealed
The FIA World Motor Sport Council (WMSC) has announced further technical details of the future World Rally Car.

After meeting today in Monaco, the council reconfirmed that the 2010 World Rally Car will be based on an S2000 specification car.

However, the scope of the removable performance kit, already adopted by the WMSC to bring the car to WRC specification, has been redefined - with no electronic benefits, or similar upgrades, allowed on cost grounds.

Instead, the WRC kit is believed to be limited to a turbo, revised inlet and exhaust manifolds, a quicker gearshift mechanism (with steering wheel paddle shift) and an aero package consisting of a rear wing and front spoiler. The bolt-on kit will cost under 30.000 Euros and should give the cars an extra 50bhp.

The WMSC also decided that the new S2000-based World Rally Car will only be permitted for use on World Rally Championship events, and that the P-WRC will remain open to Group N cars, including the existing S2000 car.

The FIA also revealed that it is in exclusive negotiations with Ralliart Italy to supply and service Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution cars for the Pirelli Star Drivers to contest the designated 2009 and 2010 FIA World Rally Championship events.
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Old 12-12-2008, 05:23 PM   #22
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Nevermind
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Old 12-12-2008, 10:56 PM   #23
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wow, FIA sucks. How long will it take for them to be replaced by a better run sanctioning body? WRC just lost all interest for me.

Frank
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Old 12-13-2008, 02:05 PM   #24
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gay... really gay. so boes this affect local events and does group n have a place in the world anymore?
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Old 12-13-2008, 02:11 PM   #25
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2010 wrc will be a S2000 with a turbo kit supplied by the FIA and rear wing
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