Quickest Evo: AWD Motorsports makes history

[Phatron]

uh oh.....

all this talk about ve.....

what would you rather have a 2.5L at 80% VE or a 2L at 100% VE? Which one is better?

what has the ability to make more power 2.5L of air or 2L?

do any of you actually know the VE of any of the 8 second subarus or 8 second evo's? didnt think so.

once all said and done a perfectly setup 2.5L has the ability to make more power than a perfectly setup 2L.

you guys have to be basing your opinions on something....drag racing, dyno numbers....something, but its definately not a direct comparison of VE.

what if subarus and evos operate at exactly the same VE, but subarus have more drivetrain losses?

there are so many what ifs that you guys are drawing your conclusions based on heresay and theories.

i'd put up an ej207 with ppgs, headwork, and cams in a gc8 up against any evo anyday.

if the boxer engine design was so poor with regards to ve subaru would have dropped out of the rally years ago cause it would have no shot of ever winning.

can i say that subaru has better ve since they won all those wrc championships? no

can you claim that an 8 sec evo has better ve than an 8 sec subaru? no

and comparing what an evo can do with a 44 lb/min turbo to what an sti can do with a 33 lb/min turbo is insane at best.

does xdrian going 10.8 with a stock ej257 and an 18g mean subarus are better than evos? no

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[Str8Gone]

^exactly theres so many different points to argue about this subject, not to mention that iron/steel is about 3 times as strong as aluminum which is one of the reasons they can run 50+ psi of boost. Either way that evo would be one nasty street car to put a bet against some muscleheads and take all their money.

[mxpunk]

Originally Posted by Phatron

this is just funny to me.....why do you all own subarus then if you hands down think the 4g63 and the evo is such a better platform?

i was going to get an evo, but no one makes a trailer hitch for them!

for making raw HP, the evo is a better platform. While I hold you in high regard for your knowledge in regards to these topics there is no point in arguing this. dollar for dollar, psi for psi, the 4G63T is superior.

sure you could dump hundreds of thousands of dollars into R&D developing the EJ motor, but for most people, it just doesnt make sense when you can spend alot less on a proven platform that consistently outperforms the EJ and thats the 4G63T.


you for daily driving, i woudlnt hesitate to drive either one. a 2L wrx has more then enough "power" to get to point A to B.

[saint_foo]

Originally Posted by soon2bblackongold

you thought buschur would do it? he's to busy causing drama over there on evom(yes I have been reading over there and that dude is a huuge cry baby, who think's he is the almighty evo dude, he causes sooooo much drama on evom, I think everyone is sick of that guy...he claims everyone steals his ideas and what not..it's sad)

Originally Posted by soon2bblackongold

they are allllll over the place, he argued with martin of ams recently....said that there 8.42 time didn't mean crap because they are a "tin can" and that his bad bish time is just so much more worth of respect because it's not gutted to hell...he is just so disrespectful and full of himself

he has mods that must know him personally/respect him, because they just get delted...give yourself a few minutes of searching on there(in evo turbo/engine/drivetrain, you will easily find stuff. That dude is unbelievable(but this isn't the point of this thread, mike@awd motorsports(owner), crispeed(tuner), cwill(helped with the build)

let's not give buschur any attention, he tries to cause soooo much trouble, best thing is to just ignore his posts.

Um, you're the one who brought up Buschur. 2nd post.

[soon2bblackongold]

Originally Posted by saint_foo

Um, you're the one who brought up Buschur. 2nd post.

i agree, i shouldn't have said anything..but this guy is seriously such a dick, that a new evom user (me) can't stand him and his absent professionalism. I just want to protect people's accomplishments and he is constantly knocking folks down over there...now that isn't argueable, it's fact..i've read it on numerous occasions, I am not bad mouthing him over one event.

[Dr. Ill]

I read the car weighed 2900 with driver. The rs starts at about 3000, so thats about 250 lbs lighter than stock.

[juanmedina]

Originally Posted by Dr. Ill

I read the car weighed 2900 with driver. The rs starts at about 3000, so thats about 250 lbs lighter than stock.

the Evo IX RS weights 3219lbs

[Phatron]

Originally Posted by mxpunk

dollar for dollar, psi for psi, the 4G63T is superior.

again, will you guys please list direct examples of what you are basing this on? where is the proof? are you talking about dyno numbers? trap speeds? what exactly are you basing it on?

are you basing it on stock turbo vs stock turbo?

quantity of fast drag times?

You have to have a basis for your opinions.....so what is it?

[mxpunk]

Originally Posted by Phatron

again, will you guys please list direct examples of what you are basing this on? where is the proof? are you talking about dyno numbers? trap speeds? what exactly are you basing it on?

are you basing it on stock turbo vs stock turbo?

quantity of fast drag times?

You have to have a basis for your opinions.....so what is it?

All of the above.

Don't 350 whp evo's run 11s? A 350 whp subaru is good for..mid 12s?

You can't be this oblivious to the these facts man.

im not denying the facts either, the 4G63 has been stateside for 20+ years, the EJ is making strides forward, however, it still isnt up to par wth the 4G completely. Im sure in time it will be.

[soon2bblackongold]

ron, cmon man...you gotta give credit where it's due


and yes, it is cheaper imho opinion to mod an evo, because of how many stock parts you can keep on the car..and still hit +360whp STOCK TURBO, some guys are ~400+whp stock turbo..the record for stock turbo evo is 10.8 iirc..while ours is 11.7 and NOBODY has come even close to it and that record might stand for good(good luck stimikey)

like mr, al f said, yes when you start going for huuuge 150mph passes, its all the same $$ invested in the two..but stock turbo on the evo allows you to hit +360whp and that's just nuts

[soon2bblackongold]

upgrades for an evo to go super fast

upper and lower intercooler piping (small battery needed for upicp iirc)
fuel pump
tune
cams(a wayyyyyyyyyy easier install than for subi)
flash...


done

[Phatron]

Originally Posted by mxpunk

All of the above.

Don't 350 whp evo's run 11s? A 350 whp subaru is good for..mid 12s?

You can't be this oblivious to the these facts man.

ok....so you're using drag racing numbers then. which are are 20% power, 20% driver, 20% traction, 20% elevation&weather, and 20% tranny.

That is not a good arguement IMO....downsti went 11's on a vf39 with less than 350whp.....AMS went 11's with less than 350whp....

comparing whp to trap speeds across the board isnt possible.

if both cars are 350whp then the issue comes down to transmission, weight, and driver.

Originally Posted by soon2bblackongold

ron, cmon man...you gotta give credit where it's due

and yes, it is cheaper imho opinion to mod an evo, because of how many stock parts you can keep on the car..and still hit +360whp STOCK TURBO, some guys are ~400+whp stock turbo..the record for stock turbo evo is 10.8 iirc..while ours is 11.7 and NOBODY has come even close to it and that record might stand for good(good luck stimikey)

like mr, al f said, yes when you start going for huuuge 150mph passes, its all the same $$ invested in the two..but stock turbo on the evo allows you to hit +360whp and that's just nuts

I agree with you thats its cheaper.....but its simply because the EVO comes with a super duper 16g that has the comp flow of a 20g. Of course the stock turbo'd evo's are gonna be able to kill stock turbo'd sti's....thats a given.

What kind of power do maxed out 20g'd STi's put down? 400+whp.

You guys really dont understand how turbos work and how they're rated.

It doesnt matter which car a turbo is on, it only has the ability to flow so much air, therefore only make so much power. It doesnt matter if the cars have different displacements, having larger displacement simply moves the powerband to the left.

Originally Posted by soon2bblackongold

upgrades for an evo to go super fast

upper and lower intercooler piping (small battery needed for upicp iirc)
fuel pump
tune
cams(a wayyyyyyyyyy easier install than for subi)
flash...

done

the discussion wasnt cost of mods or ease of mods it was overall power with every mod possible on a maxed out setup.

yes its a fact that stage,1,2,3 evos will be faster than an STi until the STi goes 20g or larger......again this goes back to how turbos work....they're just air pumps. The evos air pump flows 33% more air than a vf39....so maxed out stock turbo vs stock turbo we should be down ~33% powerwise. No stock turbo sti will ever get into the 10's unless it weighs 2000 lbs or is accompanied by a 200 shot of nos.

[STimo]

EDIT: wrong thread

[juanmedina]

Originally Posted by STimo

Just because both vehicles make 350whp doesnt mean they're going to run anywhere near the same times.. Gear ratio has a HUGE deal to do with your 1/4 times, so does weight, etc..

and EVOs come with a 20g size turbo, I spend a lot of time on EVOM and I think the biggest issue is money . Most of the guys one EVOM just go and sent their cars to Buschur for 23k build, I mean everything tranny, suspension, engine, electronics for a 10 sec car on pump gas or 9 sec car on racegas. Also, is not one person, a lot of people do that, while in here most people just put some pistons and a stock location 35R.

If we look at our Proven Power Bragging section we will see VF39 with EWGs, 20gs and rarely 35Rs. If you go to EVOM you will see cars running twin scroll full race 40r, 37r, etc. Cars using double pumpers etc etc.

[joey1313]

Originally Posted by Phatron

Of course the stock turbo'd evo's are gonna be able to kill stock turbo'd sti's....thats a given.

yes its a fact that stage,1,2,3 evos will be faster than an STi until the STi goes 20g or larger.

Glad I don't drag race. It's too much fun to make the 400+hp guys mad, when they can't hang with SM laptimes....LOL


For all the buscher hating in this thread, it's kinda funny how many buscher parts on the car from the OP.

[mxpunk]

downsti's run was a freak run. he did it once, and no one else has done it. some have come close.

you're beating a dude horse here dood. comparing exceptions to the norm is silly.

evo's can run high 10s on bolt on 20g's. i know AMS had an 11 second tmic'd fpgreen sti sometime last year but..

sti's run 11's w/ 20g's and race gas....evo's exceed this on pump + meth

Originally Posted by Phatron

ok....so you're using drag racing numbers then. which are are 20% power, 20% driver, 20% traction, 20% elevation&weather, and 20% tranny.

That is not a good arguement IMO....downsti went 11's on a vf39 with less than 350whp.....AMS went 11's with less than 350whp....

comparing whp to trap speeds across the board isnt possible.

if both cars are 350whp then the issue comes down to transmission, weight, and driver.



I agree with you thats its cheaper.....but its simply because the EVO comes with a super duper 16g that has the comp flow of a 20g. Of course the stock turbo'd evo's are gonna be able to kill stock turbo'd sti's....thats a given.

What kind of power do maxed out 20g'd STi's put down? 400+whp.

You guys really dont understand how turbos work and how they're rated.

It doesnt matter which car a turbo is on, it only has the ability to flow so much air, therefore only make so much power. It doesnt matter if the cars have different displacements, having larger displacement simply moves the powerband to the left.



the discussion wasnt cost of mods or ease of mods it was overall power with every mod possible on a maxed out setup.

yes its a fact that stage,1,2,3 evos will be faster than an STi until the STi goes 20g or larger......again this goes back to how turbos work....they're just air pumps. The evos air pump flows 33% more air than a vf39....so maxed out stock turbo vs stock turbo we should be down ~33% powerwise. No stock turbo sti will ever get into the 10's unless it weighs 2000 lbs or is accompanied by a 200 shot of nos.

[Phatron]

you're right all 20g'd evo's run tens


11.9 evo w/ fpred
http://forums.evolutionm.net/service...d-93-meth.html

11.99 gt30
http://forums.evolutionm.net/drag-ra...eason-end.html

i just searched around evom, there times seem to be that far off from ours.....

most stock turbos were 12.0-12.5
most greens high 11's
most gt30's mid 11's
most gt35's high 10's low 11's
most gt35's on race gas mid to high 10's

the thing i noticed over there is that there are a lot more "different" setups....seems like everyone is running different displacement, different cams, differnt turbos, etc

you guys talk about them like every stock turbo runs 11's and every gt35 runs 9;s...

[mussexy]

post for DownSTi

who cares which car is cheaper to mod

who cares which car will respond better to mod

seriously? who cares


even Hondas got Evos and STi's beat when it come mod of mod for the money

can you emagine what will a honda do if you drop 30k into it? or a mustang 5.0

at the end of the day who gives a flying **** who spend more money

--------------------------------------------------------------------


its really hard to compare both cars, mod for mod,

id actually like to find out what has the fastest Stock Turbo Evo has run

- no bull**** " stock appearing turbo "
- stock clutch
- stock cams
- stock heads
- 100 octane

basicly just completely bolt on

Originally Posted by Phatron

so theres absolutely no way a gt35'd sti can beat a gt35'd evo?

i found this video

of a Stock turbo vf39 STi racing a GT35r turbo Evo for small cash

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/O...Low_119676.htm

Originally Posted by mxpunk

All of the above.

Don't 350 whp evo's run 11s? A 350 whp subaru is good for..mid 12s?

You can't be this oblivious to the these facts man.

im not denying the facts either, the 4G63 has been stateside for 20+ years, the EJ is making strides forward, however, it still isnt up to par wth the 4G completely. Im sure in time it will be.

all you been doin is talking alot of ****

what have you accomplished? it better be alot,

since you seem to talk big
\

[mussexy]

double post

[Phatron]

a stock turbo'd evo will beat a stock turbo'd sti.....

the stock turbo evo has 20g flow and a 10.5 cm^2 exhaust.....the smallest turbo we can get with a exhaust housing that big is a rotated gt30.....

but that wasnt what the discussion started as....

it started as maxed out vs maxed out. then went to cost, then stock turbo.....

i dont care to argue/discuss the latter two since they are intimately related....we obviously have the down fall of modding cost due to the size of the stock turbo and the ease of doing cams, valvetrain and headwork on the evo....

but in drag racing you get to a point where traction, suspension and weight reduction are the keys to getting faster and not just the peak hp.....

[lawn boy]

WHY DOESN'T SHEP BUILD SUBARU TRANNIES?!

[sonic_boost_wagon]

that vid was fun to watch....that Evo moves out!

[mxpunk]

Originally Posted by mussexy

post for DownSTi

who cares which car is cheaper to mod

who cares which car will respond better to mod

seriously? who cares


even Hondas got Evos and STi's beat when it come mod of mod for the money

can you emagine what will a honda do if you drop 30k into it? or a mustang 5.0

at the end of the day who gives a flying **** who spend more money

--------------------------------------------------------------------


its really hard to compare both cars, mod for mod,

id actually like to find out what has the fastest Stock Turbo Evo has run

- no bull**** " stock appearing turbo "
- stock clutch
- stock cams
- stock heads
- 100 octane

basicly just completely bolt on



i found this video

of a Stock turbo vf39 STi racing a GT35r turbo Evo for small cash

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/O...Low_119676.htm






all you been doin is talking alot of ****

what have you accomplished? it better be alot,

since you seem to talk big
\

im trying to accomplish making my wrx run mid 12's on 93 octane!

hey, it's the internet..what good fun is it if we can't talk ****??

i respect ron for not insulting me even when he has proved me wrong, +1 for him!

[mxpunk]

Originally Posted by lawn boy

WHY DOESN'T SHEP BUILD SUBARU TRANNIES?!

very good question! seems like he'd be able to make a KILLING..

[soon2bblackongold]

Originally Posted by Phatron

You guys really dont understand how turbos work and how they're rated.

It doesnt matter which car a turbo is on, it only has the ability to flow so much air, therefore only make so much power. It doesnt matter if the cars have different displacements, having larger displacement simply moves the powerband to the left.

ron, don't make this personal....I understand exactly how a turbo works, where are you getting this from? how they are rated? go to garett.com and that's how they are rated, not very hard to find...got anything else you want to inform me about with things you think I don't know?

where did I ever talk about any turbo in this discussion? Don't put me in on your anger for people not being loyal to the ej257...we have both blown them, I just am not wasting any more money on this platform..it's time for a change for me. The 4G63T works better for what I want to do with it

this thread was about awd motorsports history making pass....you just don't like it that people aren't loyal to subaru; people are loyal to hp numbers and strip times...on that front, you are asleep to the data. For you to think people are idiots because they feel like the ej257 is like glass compared to the 4g63 it's just

our ej257 will never be the 4G63, sorry dude...inline>horizontal, shorter exhaust path for evo(shorter by A LOT)>our setups, stock twinscroll reverse flow 16g>vf39, stock fmic> tmic, cast iron block>aluminium, oil pump on evo>oil pump on STi, fuel rails evo>fuel rails STi