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Old 12-23-2008, 02:20 PM   #1
07pearlwhiteSti
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Question Stock 2007 Sti Cracked Ring Lands, Block Destroyed!!!??????

My friend has a completly stock 2007 sti, 2 weeks ago when he started the car it just started to billow smoke out the tail pipe. The car had a perfect idle, no check engine light and had not been recently abused or driven hard. So he took it to the nearest Subaru dealership to have it fixed under warrenty because he only has 20,000 miles on it. The dealer took it in two weeks ago today and said they couldn't give him a loaner car because they were all in use, so two weeks later the dealer finally calls him and says the ring lands are cracked and they submitted all the info to SOA, that the block was damaged beyond repair and couldn't be brought back to the stock bore specs so he would need a new block. He still doesn't have a loaner car and they won't give him a time line on how long the repair will take. The dealer even told him that they were looking for signs of abuse. The car is 100% stock, oil changed every 3000 miles from a subaru dealership, and never tracked or anything like that. Is this Subaru's normal process? 2 weeks just to find the problem and then who knows how long before completion? All with out loaning out a car to him and keep making comments about how they are looking into abuse?? I am stage 2 in a 2007 sti and knock on wood no problems yet, but this has me not trusting my subaru a whole lot and I beat my car down daily while he babied his.... What are your thoughts?? What should he do????
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Last edited by 07pearlwhiteSti; 12-23-2008 at 02:55 PM.
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Old 12-23-2008, 03:07 PM   #2
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as far as a loaner is concerened...they don't have to give you jack crap to drive!

as far as the timeline to get it fixed who knows...if i were him i'd call SOA and see where they are on getting it fixed.

as far as your trust in subaru.......this is a known issue with the 07's. Do a search and you'll see.
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Old 12-23-2008, 03:24 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boostdog View Post
as far as a loaner is concerened...they don't have to give you jack crap to drive!

as far as your trust in subaru.......this is a known issue with the 07's. Do a search and you'll see.
That sucks. I thought they had to give you a loaner while warrenty work is getting done.

Yeah now I know, but in April of 07 when I bought my car I did not know of these issues. I have talked to a few shops and they told me all about the 07's and even worse the 08's with these types of issues. That is what makes Subaru a Subaru I guess......
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Old 12-23-2008, 03:27 PM   #4
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you could simply get a stg1 conservative tune as well...most are modding the car to avoid the oem tune. that is the problem. the engine itself is good...it's the tune that is bad.

they'll fix his car and he'll be happy.
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Old 12-23-2008, 03:36 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by boostdog View Post
you could simply get a stg1 conservative tune as well...most are modding the car to avoid the oem tune. that is the problem. the engine itself is good...it's the tune that is bad.

they'll fix his car and he'll be happy.
Thanks for the reply, I hope you are right!!

I am cobb stage 2, if this were to happen to me would my warrenty cover this since it's such a known issue??
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Old 12-23-2008, 03:36 PM   #6
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Taking that long to find a problem is BS, unless their dealership is slammed and they have a backlog of appointments a mile long.

07's are known for having crap rings and such. Your car might last another 500 miles, but it might last 50,000 miles with no problems, you never can tell.
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Old 12-23-2008, 03:41 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07pearlwhiteSti View Post
I am cobb stage 2, if this were to happen to me would my warrenty cover this since it's such a known issue??
No

But you re-tuned the car, it's the OEM tune that's the problem, you're no longer using the OEM tune, so where's the problem?
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Old 12-23-2008, 03:52 PM   #8
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No

But you re-tuned the car, it's the OEM tune that's the problem, you're no longer using the OEM tune, so where's the problem?

I don't have a problem on my car yet....... But I'm not so sure it's all in the stock tune I have found alot of people online and at the local tuning shops recently with similar issues on tuned and reflashed 07 sti's. If the rings are weak they are weak regardless of the tune. Sure a differnt tune would help if the oem tune is truly that bad, but this just means that 07 sti's are more prone to breaking.

And the way the rings broke is what is so weird. He drove it 20 miles, parked it for 30 minutes then when he started it up SMOKE. Took it 1.5 miles to the dealership and broken rings and damaged block. No weird idle, no check engine light, no symptoms other than smoke. Is that how they go out? Or were they already going out and just happened to smoke at that point? The dealership did a freeze frame of the missfire they found on the obd2 and the missfire happened at idle. They said the check engine light hadn't came on yet because the car had just detected the missfire and it has to detect the missfire multiple times before tripping the check engine light.

Last edited by 07pearlwhiteSti; 12-23-2008 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 12-23-2008, 03:59 PM   #9
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[quote=ScorpionT;24934887]Taking that long to find a problem is BS, unless their dealership is slammed and they have a backlog of appointments a mile long.

07's are known for having crap rings and such. Your car might last another 500 miles, but it might last 50,000 miles with no problems, you never can tell.[/quote

The dealership is backed up according to them and what they told my friend, he ended up calling SOA just to get them to diagnosis the problem. Now the dealership has been more polite but this was over a week ago and they just called him today and said "your rings are bad an the engine is beyond repair, we're waiting on Subaru now to tell us what to do". when asked how long this will take to fix the service manager said "who knows". 14 days without a car so far, "who knows" is a crap answer when you have to rent a car just to get to and from work...
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Old 12-23-2008, 08:56 PM   #10
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I hate when I see these threads!!!

I hope your friend gets this resolved soon. The holidays this week and next will only delay it further. This whole 07 problem seems very fishy IMO as well. Some car have problems bone stock like your friend and then some with A LOT of mods are running strong and vice versa, seems very hit or miss if you ask me.
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Old 12-23-2008, 09:33 PM   #11
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I hate when I see these threads!!!

I hope your friend gets this resolved soon. The holidays this week and next will only delay it further. This whole 07 problem seems very fishy IMO as well. Some car have problems bone stock like your friend and then some with A LOT of mods are running strong and vice versa, seems very hit or miss if you ask me.
I agree with you, something is not right. I want to get the dealer to do a leakdown test on my car now, just to make sure everything is okay. But I know the dealerships wont do it unless there is a problem with the car. After all this I am paranoid everytime I mash the gas.... Isn't that why we bought sti's?? I'll post more when I know more about his car.
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Old 12-23-2008, 09:57 PM   #12
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Hey did someone say cracked ringlands on an 07 STI??????

Been there 2x once on OEM once on Stage 2.
5500 miles on Stage 2 (the piston actually let go and shattered inside the block at 75mph)
7500 on brand new replacement out of the fricken crate Long Block. (cracked ringlands and blown headgasket)

Subaru took 2 weeks to replace the 1st one and I replaced the second one with the help of P&L and Ron Williams of AXIS. I was still under warranty on the 2nd one but was so damn tired of not having my ride I told them to stick the warranty I'd take care of it.

If your under warranty Subaru should be supplying you with a loaner based on loaner availability. Sometimes you have to give them a heads up on needing one but it should not be a big deal.

Subaru will do WHATEVER you ask you want a leakdown your going to pay for it though. They wanted to do the Subaru pony & dance and I said I'll pay for it they were like oh we thought you wanted all warranty work. They have a stupid protocol to follow, the leakdowns like $40, pay it.
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Old 12-23-2008, 11:01 PM   #13
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If you're not proactive, they have no reason to hurry. I'd be in there every couple days. You might want to ask them about lemon law too. Start making noises like you want subaru to buy the car back because it's a lemon. I'm not suggesting being a dick but, when people are busy, they work on the most pressing job first. I'm not suggesting threatening them either, just mentioning things like lemon law in conversation and asking them for numbers at SOA or trying to get them to call SOA while you're talking to them.

What I'm hearing here is that your buddy's being pretty passive about the whole thing. I don't think calling on the phone or email's going to get you very far.

07pearlwhiteSti, I'd drive the crap out of your car. If it breaks, you want it breaking under warranty.
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Old 12-24-2008, 12:07 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterKwan View Post
If you're not proactive, they have no reason to hurry. I'd be in there every couple days. You might want to ask them about lemon law too. Start making noises like you want subaru to buy the car back because it's a lemon. I'm not suggesting being a dick but, when people are busy, they work on the most pressing job first. I'm not suggesting threatening them either, just mentioning things like lemon law in conversation and asking them for numbers at SOA or trying to get them to call SOA while you're talking to them.

What I'm hearing here is that your buddy's being pretty passive about the whole thing. I don't think calling on the phone or email's going to get you very far.

07pearlwhiteSti, I'd drive the crap out of your car. If it breaks, you want it breaking under warranty.

My friend at first was being passive with them because he saw how swamped they were, but after about 5 days of them not touching the car and the sevice manager basically telling him it wasn't going to be touched for another week he called SOA, so then they finally toched the car, did a leak down, found low compression, pulled the motor and tore it down only far enough to see that his rings were broke and the block was damaged to the point that they couldn't bore it back to factory specs. Now they claim they are waiting on SOA to tell them what to do. So I know earlier today he called SOA but I don't know what was said.

As far as my car goes I am going to get a leakdown test done after the holidays, but since I am stage 2 I doubt my warrenty is any good now, so I I don't think I will be pounding on it anytime soon......
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Old 12-24-2008, 12:10 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4ST-AIR View Post
Hey did someone say cracked ringlands on an 07 STI??????

Been there 2x once on OEM once on Stage 2.
5500 miles on Stage 2 (the piston actually let go and shattered inside the block at 75mph)
7500 on brand new replacement out of the fricken crate Long Block. (cracked ringlands and blown headgasket)

Subaru took 2 weeks to replace the 1st one and I replaced the second one with the help of P&L and Ron Williams of AXIS. I was still under warranty on the 2nd one but was so damn tired of not having my ride I told them to stick the warranty I'd take care of it.

If your under warranty Subaru should be supplying you with a loaner based on loaner availability. Sometimes you have to give them a heads up on needing one but it should not be a big deal

Subaru will do WHATEVER you ask you want a leakdown your going to pay for it though. They wanted to do the Subaru pony & dance and I said I'll pay for it they were like oh we thought you wanted all warranty work. They have a stupid protocol to follow, the leakdowns like $40, pay it.

what were your symptoms when you cracked the ringlands on the stock motor? Just smoke?
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Old 12-24-2008, 12:52 AM   #16
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Pearlwhite, my advice, keep driving how you normally do, if it breaks, its under warranty. Have the dealership replace the motor under warranty, but try and get them to get forged pistons installed(at your cost of course).
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Old 12-24-2008, 10:04 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07pearlwhiteSti View Post
I don't have a problem on my car yet....... But I'm not so sure it's all in the stock tune I have found alot of people online and at the local tuning shops recently with similar issues on tuned and reflashed 07 sti's. If the rings are weak they are weak regardless of the tune. Sure a differnt tune would help if the oem tune is truly that bad, but this just means that 07 sti's are more prone to breaking.

And the way the rings broke is what is so weird. He drove it 20 miles, parked it for 30 minutes then when he started it up SMOKE. Took it 1.5 miles to the dealership and broken rings and damaged block. No weird idle, no check engine light, no symptoms other than smoke. Is that how they go out? Or were they already going out and just happened to smoke at that point? The dealership did a freeze frame of the missfire they found on the obd2 and the missfire happened at idle. They said the check engine light hadn't came on yet because the car had just detected the missfire and it has to detect the missfire multiple times before tripping the check engine light.
This has been beaten to death. Stock STIs will break because of the OEM tune. The shortblock has not changed (besides the case revision in mid 2006 models) on the USDM STI even into 2009. The problems with the factory tune are twofold:

1. Running full boost at stoich AFR causing knock at peak EL which slowly damages lands.
2. Overboost on some stock cars causing the car to run out of fuel causing high rpm high load DET. This especially occurs at low altitude, with gas that has ethanol in it. This is very damaging as the ECU cannot respond fast enough.

Problems with cars that are tuned:

It is tuned wrong. You have to understand the advance tables on these guys and the fuel/boost/timing switching that is tied to multipliers (or how to disable this logic). Of course you always see some cars that are modded and tuned blow up. It is stock cars that should last and last and last. 04-06 STi were the only STi's that would because SOA got an EPA waiver. Now they have to run stoich into full boost to pass emissions. Subaru would be smart to beef up the pistons a bit now and save them some money. I can tell you my forged CPs could take the abuse from the stock tune no problem. I data logged all of this over a year ago.

Gabe
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Old 12-24-2008, 12:26 PM   #18
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It's just like in fight club. Subaru looks at this and decides "Is the cost of changing all STI pistons to forged, more then the cost of replacing motor's from time to time". The fact they haven't beefed them up suggests that forged pistons cost more.
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Old 12-24-2008, 12:29 PM   #19
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I don't think so. Forged pistons are not good for emissions, either.
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Old 12-24-2008, 01:34 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterKwan View Post
It's just like in fight club. Subaru looks at this and decides "Is the cost of changing all STI pistons to forged, more then the cost of replacing motor's from time to time". The fact they haven't beefed them up suggests that forged pistons cost more.
I don't buy the whole more expensive thing, because in the end we, the end buyer, will foot the bill. I honestly would not have minded spending 400 or so more dollars to have piece of mind that I have forged pistons and the worry won't be as much.

Quote:
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I don't think so. Forged pistons are not good for emissions, either.
This is true but if they are already pushing the limits of how a turbo car should run I don't think the pistons will take that much away from them meeting the emissions standards, at least I don't think so.
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Old 12-24-2008, 01:46 PM   #21
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Uhm, how does the manufacturing process of the piston affect emissions?
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Old 12-24-2008, 01:54 PM   #22
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Uhm, how does the manufacturing process of the piston affect emissions?
Forged pistons are run with much higher piston to wall clearances to allow for their expansion. On cold starts forged piston engines will burn some oil. Which is not good for emissions.
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Old 12-24-2008, 02:35 PM   #23
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[quote=jordanretro1223;24944737]I don't buy the whole more expensive thing, because in the end we, the end buyer, will foot the bill. I honestly would not have minded spending 400 or so more dollars to have piece of mind that I have forged pistons and the worry won't be as much.


$400??? Did you do all the work your self or did you pay $400 ontop to the dealer during a warrenty claim?
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Old 12-24-2008, 02:45 PM   #24
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You guy are making me second guess installing my STI motor without switching to forged pistons. I hadn't really planned on taking if farther apart. Hmm.
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Old 12-24-2008, 02:52 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by 07pearlwhiteSti View Post
$400??? Did you do all the work your self or did you pay $400 ontop to the dealer during a warrenty claim?
I was reffereing to MasterKwan's comment in post #18 about it being expensive for Subaru to switch to forged pistons in order to head of the damage being done to the caste material currently being used.

So I was referring to the fact that it wouldn't be any more expensive for Subaru because in the end the buyer will foot the bill i.e. the car would be (should be) priced higher by like 4/5 hundred dollars.

My car is stock, I haven't had any work done, lol.
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