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Old 06-27-2009, 09:57 AM   #201
crzyazzpolak717
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I feel your pain on the ball joints they are the biggest pain in the butt. I ended up cracking a knuckle the first time working on my friends car.
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Old 06-27-2009, 11:17 AM   #202
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Had some 285 hoosiers put on the 9.5 inch wheels. There is only ~ 1.25" difference in a stack of 4 which is ~ 5/16" per tire. After talking to Winchester the past weekend he states the Berry camp says there's no quantifible speed difference between 10's and 9.5's.

Phycologically I'd always prefer to be on the 10's


Last edited by mccanixx; 07-01-2009 at 07:38 AM.
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Old 06-27-2009, 06:20 PM   #203
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Greg,

You can wheel that car like no other. It was a real treat watching you run @ the DC Pro. Onwards to the Pro Finale & Nats!!!!
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Old 06-29-2009, 07:36 AM   #204
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Greg,

You can wheel that car like no other. It was a real treat watching you run @ the DC Pro. Onwards to the Pro Finale & Nats!!!!
Thanks Chike, That's a real compliment.

So yesterday we had a one day divisional @ the airport......I had been asked to do the course a while ago. And as the entry list grew to ~ 250 and ESP alone was around 14 or so I thought I'd switch from pro to open. ESP had ~ 5-6 hitters and thought it would be an opportunity to see where the car is outside of a pro solo.

I intentionally tried to make the course defeat any advantage of awd. No straight away launch, no point and squirt sections. I actually tried to make it as I think a big, open nationals course may be. A bit like a road race course.

Due to the size of the event we went with a 3 run format, perfect. Luckily the weather turned out to be beautiful so that wouldn't be a factor and the course I thought should give the advantage to the pony cars.

At the end of 3 runs I was 2nd .086 behind first, .437 in front of 3rd. I'm writing a letter. We were both in the 50.xxx range at the top of 2nd gear most of the time.

I could give some excuse, like the 100 run hoosier not feeling the best, but I don't truly care. This is why I switched classes. For 4 years I wondered if I could make up 2 seconds on a 60 second course. Truth is it's a tall order. I lost to the guy who took 8th at Nats last year, and has been on fire locally at least this year. It was a good gauge.

What I do take away is if I'm close enough on the fast course at nationals, I should be in contention switching to a tighter course. I also would like to find a few more ponies so I will be switching to 100 to see what we get.

I have no intentions of winning nationals, I'll just go and drive the best I can.
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Old 06-29-2009, 06:55 PM   #205
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Default Plastic intake

So I bought a plastic intake when I started this because I was going to run the vf52 in esp via UD/BD. Bolt turbo to 2007 engine, it becomes a 2009 assembly. All the internals are the same so there would be no real way to seperate what they bulit from what they could've built from the parts bin. If the head is fualty on your 09 there's nothing to prevent the dealer from putting on a 2006 head. This was before the march fastrack....there's a reason I was waiting to buy the turbo.

Since then I've been thinking about using it anyways. It's lighter, I've been told it flows better, and it should keep the intake charge down. Seems win/win.

So I've gotten around to trying it. I know there are those who say you need different TGV's, I'm gonna say they're wrong for now. I did test fit this when I had my intake apart. I know it will take work but it's not impossible. The center holes are off by ~ an 1/8".

So I started by draining a couple quarts from the radiator, then pulling the intake, intercooler and air seperator.


Then I pulled the altenator and shifted the P/S pump out of the way.


After that I undid all the elec. connectors that connected the mani to the chassis or engine. I'm choosing to leave the TGV's on the engine at this time. I undid the mani from the TGV's, I undid the fuel rails from the TGV's, slipped out the turbo inlet and pulled the intake off of the TGV's.


The picture on top is the 2007 crossover piping on the bottom is the 2008 up. Due to the off center throttle body you have to either murder out the existing piping or switch to the 2008 for around $40.00. It's much cleaner packaging if you use the factory piece. You'd have a bunch of hose clamps and thick rubber tubing under everything to accomplish the same goal. In the picture above you can see some of my murdered out coolant hoses from when I originally test fit this back in December, like I said it makes a packaging nightmare.


About 1.5 hours later,


Now the hard part making it work, I'll save that for the rest of the week. I'll have to cut apart the other wiring harness to make it work. Thought about ordering an 08 one but there like $250.00 and I haven't seen any cheapo's for sale.

The only real difference, apart from the obvious shape and material, is the absolute manifold pressure sensor location. Luckily the abandoned 3 wire TGV connector fits perfectly.

You may say WTF, but why not. If it works it will be slick and it will give me the felxibility to pick up a cheap vf52 and see what kinda power the car would make.

I paid $100.00 for the intake w/throttle body, fuel rails and sensors and $50.00 for a leggy intercooler. :sweet:

Last edited by mccanixx; 06-30-2009 at 10:12 AM.
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Old 06-29-2009, 10:42 PM   #206
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To quote Tim Gunn from Project Runway: "Make it work!"
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Old 06-30-2009, 09:18 AM   #207
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Btw, any idea what the weight savings are going from the aluminum intake manifold to the plastic one?
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Old 06-30-2009, 09:31 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by Chiketkd View Post
Btw, any idea what the weight savings are going from the aluminum intake manifold to the plastic one?
I would guess around 5-10lbs. I will weigh them both tonight on my ever so accurate bathroom scale.

:fierce:
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Old 06-30-2009, 11:03 AM   #209
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Hey Greg, Didn't see you anywhere at the auto-x, but I did see your car make a couple of runs. Very nice looking runs! Car looks great as well!

Nice project on the manifold!
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Old 07-01-2009, 07:06 AM   #210
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I'm knida on a deadline with the intake as I would like to get it to Pure before we go out of town thursday. I alloted my self 6 hours to get it done, unfortunately I don't know if I'll have 6 hours this week.

Chike, the manifold is 4lbs lighter. I haven't weighed the intercooler yet.

Here's what the top looks like with the other water pipe. Alot cleaner than the alternative. You can see I opted to bypass the throttle body coolant loop.


To get this thing on it will be easier to remove the fuel lines, to do that you'll need to remove the throttle body.

Set the manifold on and start the 4 outside bolts, these holes line up relatively well. You'll see the center holes are ~ an 1/8" off.



Grab a C clamp and something to spread the gap in the TGV and pull the center over.


Then you can get the center bolts started and tightened down.


Done. I know there's no gasket issue and the manifold runners are smaller and sit centered over the TGV openings because I did this same exercise with the TGV off of the car. They dump unobstructed into the tgv's

Now fishing the fuel lines back through, tightning them up and bolting the bracket to the bottom of the manifold with the manifold affixed is a bit of a pain but completely doable.


As I was messing with the injectors I dropped one of the lower gaskets into the infernal abyss, never to be seen again. So after a run over to Pure for another one I was back in buisness. They way I left it last night was everything was mechanically done and bolted up. So I still need to hack up the wiring harness and make the intercooler work with the td04.

As you can see, in one of the pictures in the other post, the top of the runners are in line with the fuel lines. If you measure the old mainfold, mating surface to fuel lines, they are the same. It's just the runners and center section is that much taller on the plastic one. Because of that I'll pull the left front headlight and look through the opening as I close the hood. Make sure there's no issues with clearance.

I'll see what I can accomplish tonight.

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Old 07-01-2009, 07:59 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by coolblue05 View Post
Hey Greg, Didn't see you anywhere at the auto-x, but I did see your car make a couple of runs. Very nice looking runs! Car looks great as well!

Nice project on the manifold!

Sorry I missed you Jacob. I bailed a little early because I had the opportunity to, which is rare.

Thanks..........................for the compliments.
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Old 07-01-2009, 09:43 AM   #212
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Quote:
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Chike, the manifold is 4lbs lighter. I haven't weighed the intercooler yet.
Thanks Greg.

Taking the weekend off racing? Have a good 4th of July holiday!
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Old 07-02-2009, 08:13 AM   #213
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Taking the weekend off racing? Have a good 4th of July holiday!
Yep. I was registered for Peru, then I cancelled cause I don't really like tours and we made plans to do somthing that doesn't involve parking lots........ Same to you Chike.

The manifold as it sits now.


I had gone through previously and labled everything on the manifold wiring harness. Most of them you get to know but things like the injectors connectors are all the same and you probably don't want to mistakingly get them mixed up so just label them.


It's mainly the left side portion that needs some adjusting so I just seperated everything I could on that side. I really needed to split off the throttle body, knock sensor, pressure sensor, cam posistion sensor, and the fuel injector connectors. It looked like:


After I had what I thought was workable I loomed everything to and through the manifold to make sure everything would reach and nothing was going to interfere. While evertything was in it's new locations I taped the areas of wires that would be new split offs or branchs. Then I pulled it back off the engine and re-taped and covered those sections to get this: The one connector that is not taped is the left side TGV connector. I will be using that 3 wire connector, to clip to the different manifold pressure sensor sense I obviously do not have TGV's.


I'll cut off the tgv connector and splice it in behind the existing 3 wire pressure sensor connector on the 2007 harness. I could go back and for between manifolds more easily that way. On the 2007 the pressure sensor resides on the top of the throttle body on the 2008 they took it off the throttle body and it resides on the front side of the manifold.

That may be it for the weekend. If I get home early today enough I may connect everything, hook the battery up and insure the gas pedal still functions the throttle body. Other than that I threw the intercooler in the truck and I'll dorp it off at Pure so Keith can begin roughing out a flange and a different connection. I guess everything else will wait till Monday.

Oh and I'm at ~ 4.5 hours of labor right now.

Cheers

Last edited by mccanixx; 07-02-2009 at 08:22 AM.
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Old 07-02-2009, 08:24 AM   #214
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Hey Storm any legality issues thus far, that you see?

And couldn't I technically strip everything uneeded out of the manifold wiring harness or not?

Thanks
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Old 07-02-2009, 07:55 PM   #215
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How funny....I just came across the pics and was wondering why the cutters were there in a pic posted nationally!

You can relocate or repurpose....but not remove unused parts of the harness. I'd love to trim mine of the multitude of unused wires too....alas, we can't. Personally, I see nothing wrong with stripping anything not needed and stuffing it all in a plastic bag, then (securely) placing it elsewhere in the car....like the spare tire well or something. It's still moved, but not removed.......as is the letter of the rule.

Jay
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Old 07-04-2009, 07:45 AM   #216
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How funny....I just came across the pics and was wondering why the cutters were there in a pic posted nationally!
Meh, I was going to gnaw through the cable ties and shielding. Then I decided to mis-use the snips for it. I'm not worried about the cars legality. If it's not it would be for something stupid or unintentional.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mccanixx View Post
In the effort of free information and transparency, for fellow auto-x enthusiasts, I thought I'd begin a new thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm View Post
You can relocate or repurpose....but not remove unused parts of the harness. I'd love to trim mine of the multitude of unused wires too....alas, we can't. Personally, I see nothing wrong with stripping anything not needed and stuffing it all in a plastic bag, then (securely) placing it elsewhere in the car....like the spare tire well or something. It's still moved, but not removed.......as is the letter of the rule.

Jay
Kinda what I thought and way to much work. Maybe if I get really, really bored.

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Old 07-07-2009, 02:12 PM   #217
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I've ran into a couple problems with the install.

1. 3 injectors leak at the top. They've been re-used a few times and I hope it's just the o-rings that need replacing. I have some coming. They are the same part number 2008 and 2007 so the fuel rails are the same size. It may be that the fuel rail is not being drawn down enough to seal (different tgv). But I'll try the new o-rings first, it's not like I can move the injector up and down when it's assembled plus 1 injector is golden, so......... The car starts and idles. Throttle body works and all that.

2. The intercooler fitment is a PITA. I even split the inlet end tank and turned it around.




Either way you go is a PITA so I just conceded and removed the endtank and took the intercooler over to Pure-Tuning to have them make a custom endtank with a 2" inlet on the bottom rear. It would be possible with a few 90* couplers but in the end I decided if I was going to spend money I may as well have something made that solves all the problems.

Since the car is basically at stage 2 output I'm not all that concerened with the size of the intercooler. It should be plenty efficient and when it's back on the dyno we'll be able to see if it's a restriction or not, compared to the APS. I think it should be fine, if it's not I'll have a custom intercooler made.

When I can get the car back to Pure were going to rig up the APS to it and see if there's a noticable difference in intake temp. It was originally tuned with the APS on it. I say there will be without testing. I know I should be able to put my hand on the intake no matter how hot the engine gets.

Then will put the other intercooler on, re-tune, and make sure there's no issue with it.

Another big side effect is the APS is 25# the legacy one is 5#. I will have to re-weigh the legacy one after the endtank is on. I don't think it'll be much different. I've basically shed 30lbs off the nose...that's huge.

I'm trying to get it back together for a local this Sunday. I figure it should be alright to run with out tuning. I should be able to pick up the intercooler tomorrow.

We'll see..................
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Old 07-08-2009, 07:20 PM   #218
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I think I have it. I changed injector o-rings and no leaky leaky. It starts, all that good stuff.

I also stopped and picked up the intercooler. I think having a hard pipe made with a tight radius 90* elbow at the intercooler would be good. That way there would only be one silicone elbow at the turbo. But for a quick install this did the trick.





It's obvious I do nothing for looks.(Have you seen me?) However a big thanks to Aaron over at Pure for turning it around. I litterally handed it to him at 11:30 yesterday afternoon and it was done when I stopped by at 4:00 pm today. He knew I wanted to attend the event this Sunday.

So Keith offered to make room on the dyno if I could get it to him quickly, so I hustled to get it together tonight.

I'll go back through the first intake post and list what I did/changed to work this out, my posting has suffered just out of need to get it together.



I don't even know if people are interested in this intake???? Oh well more later.

I know I know heat shield above the turbo......i

Cheers
Greg
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Old 07-08-2009, 09:07 PM   #219
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Looks really good Greg, especially for someone who's not into that sort of thing.


Interested to hear how much of a performance change there is with the intake/intercooler setup. The weight savings are great, hopefully the perforamance is still where you need it. Good luck and looking forward to the update from the weekend.
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Old 07-08-2009, 10:18 PM   #220
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So do you have a 25lbs alum. brick for sale then?!?!?!


Looks good greg.........and more work then I thought you'd go into with that manifold. Kudos for the re-engineering. I'll have to swing by some evening and have a look-see!
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Old 07-09-2009, 07:11 AM   #221
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So do you have a 25lbs alum. brick for sale then?!?!?!
If you want it, you'll have first dibs. I'll even throw in a couple sticks of butter to get it in the engine compartment.

Quote:
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Looks good greg.........and more work then I thought you'd go into with that manifold. Kudos for the re-engineering. I'll have to swing by some evening and have a look-see!
Meh...work is good for you.
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Old 07-10-2009, 01:34 PM   #222
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I dropped the car off last night to be tuned. Now I personally didn't feel it was going to be necassary and I also didn't want to put the guys out because I was ~ a week behind.

Keith was a little less than comfortable with the idea of not at least checking it out (possibility of change in air intake) before beating on it. I said lean must be faster but what do I know. He convinced me.

I do not expect a large increase in HP/TQ, in fact I expect none. The only change, I would think, would be temp and weight. That and the process of actually doing it is the only reason for doing it at all. The 8mm spacers under the tgv's should do a good job of isolating/insulating them from the heads. So the entire manifold may be quasi composite. Who knows though the runners are quite a bit different than the metal ones...maybe we'll be surprised.

Side note: It wouldn't idle at all when I pulled it out of the garage, onto and off of the trailer at the shop. I was thinking if this doesn't run on the dyno due to an installation issue I'm f'd. After a little thinking I remembered un- hooking the right side sensor ground to do the injectors.......It's amazing how important these grounds are. Bolted it up and it went right back to normal. :sweet:

More than anything I wanted to thank Kieth and Aaron for moving somethings around for me to get the car in today or tomorrow. More later
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Old 07-10-2009, 01:42 PM   #223
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Greg,

Is this a race gas tune you'll be getting this time around?
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Old 07-10-2009, 01:51 PM   #224
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Greg,

Is this a race gas tune you'll be getting this time around?
For control/time purposes it will be on 94, which is not a change. Since everyone's kinda tight on time I will be bringing it back to do the APS comparison and at that time we'll do a 94/100 comparison. I guess it will depend on how much head room in given for timing by 100.

Hopefully this happens before the Toledo Pro........but I also commited to pulling the trans and putting the diff in the spare one before then Oh that's right I wanted something to work on.

I don't think it will be on the dyno very long this time around.
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Old 07-11-2009, 06:03 PM   #225
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I'll let you guys interpret it.


This is from changing the intake, intercooler and bov. I can't really say if it's one thing. It needed fuel added. I'd feel confident the manifolds the change but who really cares. More power earlier and later, minus the small hiccup at 3600 which could probably be massaged out. Seems well worth while to me.

We may not get to test the APS as I'm gonna sell it asap and the schedule's pretty full at the shop. I doubt the APS was a restriction so you can draw your own conclusions on the results. It's obvious I'm not going back the other way.

Keep in mind it's was ~ 60* in April and ~90* today with crippling humidity. I guess it could be partially a bov difference???

So I guess - 30lbs , less heat soak , and moving the lines to the left and up .

Thoughts? Worthless info? Worthless data?

Oh the ugly, ugly non-existent tq curve of a 2.5 w/a td-04 :facepalm:

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