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Old 12-24-2008, 01:30 PM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default First Wall Street, Then Automakers, Now U.S. Ethanol Industry Wants a Bailout




Quote:
"Enough already!"

That ought to be Washington's response to the Renewable Fuels Association's request this month for $1 billion in financial aid to struggling ethanol producers so they can finance current operations.



But wait, there's more. The RFA -- the ethanol industry's lobby -- has also suggested to the incoming administration that it create a $50-billion federal loan guarantee program to finance investment in the ethanol producers' expansion.
And furthermore, the RFA has told Obama & Co. that any automaker that receives federal aid should be required to only produce vehicles that can run on any gas-ethanol blend up to 85 percent ethanol, beginning with the 2010 model season.


Now, if the struggling U.S. ethanol producers were producing cellulosic ethanol, which holds promise as a truly "green" product, that would be one thing. But the struggling ethanol producers the RFA is talking about are, with few exceptions, folks who only produce corn ethanol.


Here's the deal with corn ethanol: So many research papers have been written on how un-green corn ethanol truly is that people who cover green-car news could do nothing but report on those studies and still they wouldn't have time to report on all of them.


Reporting on unfavorable corn-ethanol studies is like covering crime in Los Angeles. Sometimes there are so many fatal drive-by shootings and other unnatural deaths in the County of Angels during an eight-hour shift that a crime reporter simply can't get to them all.



Come to think of it, we reported just this week on a study that concluded that all ethanol-based biofuels are more harmful to humans than fossil fuels.


Yet the RFA seeks a bailout for those struggling corn-ethanol producers. Yes, it's true that the function of ethanol-industry lobbyists is to build support for the industry. But have they no shame?


It isn't as if the domestic ethanol industry doesn't already benefit from generous federal subsidies, a 54-cents-per-gallon tariff on imported ethanol, and a federal renewable-fuel standard that sets a minimum amount of ethanol to be blended into gasoline.


But that's not all. An opinion piece in today's Wall Street Journal reminds us that the U.S. ethanol industry would not even exist today without the more than $25 billion in taxpayer handouts over the past two decades.


Unfortunately, as the Journal also notes, we shouldn't expect Congress to hear all the bad things that researchers have discovered about corn ethanol and act accordingly.
"Ethanol may never be profitable in the real world, but in Washington it's a lucrative business that provides jobs and votes," the paper said.


That's jobs and votes at taxpayers' expense and at the expense of promising alternative fuels that deserve our hard-earned money much more than corn ethanol ever did.
http://blogs.edmunds.com/greencaradvisor/2008/12/first-wall-street-then-automakers-now-us-ethanol-industry-wants-a-bailout.html
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Old 12-24-2008, 02:33 PM   #2
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um, no. just NO.
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Old 12-24-2008, 02:35 PM   #3
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We already give them $.50 a gallon and they still can't make it. It's time to let the ethanol industry die.
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Old 12-25-2008, 12:42 PM   #4
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No bailout. They haven't even been around that long, what do they deserve a bailout for? Let them die and allow something greener to come along in its place.
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Old 12-25-2008, 12:51 PM   #5
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Oh right... Because if we don't bailout the ethanol industry, 2 million jobs will be lost and our economy will collapse

Seriously though, who would be hurt by letting the ethanol industry collapse? A few corn farmers (who have plenty of business from the food industry anyway) and a few lobbyists will loose their jobs in an industry that produces a fuel that costs more to make than anybody is willing to pay per BTU without gov. subsidies. Whatever, let it fail and make some room for a truly green energy source.
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Old 12-25-2008, 01:06 PM   #6
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next up to the plate..

Listening to Fox Business Last night and they reported,The RealEstate(Commercial) Industry needs and is asking for a Bailout .These are the Big guys that own these Super Malls through out our country.Of course ,they have all these reasons why they need it.
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Old 12-25-2008, 01:19 PM   #7
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Read this thread: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=803341 before you wish for ethanol to die.
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Old 12-25-2008, 02:27 PM   #8
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Farmers spend a lot of money on lobbyists - it won't be so easy to tell them to / and die.
Why do you think there was that mandate on ethanol use in the 1st place?
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Old 12-25-2008, 03:57 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonzemos View Post
Read this thread: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=803341 before you wish for ethanol to die.
Most of us are aware of the benefits of using and the refinement process involved in creating ethanol. I still think that it is not the best choice for creating biofuel.

Look into algaenol (sp?), another biofuel derived from algae. It thrives on CO2 and grows like crazy. They can be harvested every few days instead of only a couple times per year.
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Old 12-25-2008, 04:26 PM   #10
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They'll get a piece too.
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Old 12-26-2008, 12:39 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nateness View Post
Look into algaenol (sp?), another biofuel derived from algae. It thrives on CO2 and grows like crazy. They can be harvested every few days instead of only a couple times per year.

algae based ethanol is our best option. we depend on corn for too many other things.

as much as i hate it, hydrogen is our best option in the long run. It will cost a lot for creating a network of hydrogen filling stations. But california has done well with it so far.

I dont want the "performance" car to die at all, and I am sure as the technology progresses they could and will develop performance oriented hydrogen powered cars.
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Old 12-27-2008, 01:07 AM   #12
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So after they use all the corn to make the ethanol, creating havoc in the food markets now they want a bailout... Yea that should happen.....
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Old 12-27-2008, 01:12 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtboost View Post
as much as i hate it, hydrogen is our best option in the long run. It will cost a lot for creating a network of hydrogen filling stations. But california has done well with it so far.
It's not so much a matter of infrastructure for hydrogen... That would quickly grow with demand. Current internal combustion engines also can quite easily be converted to run on hydrogen (it's almost exactly the same as converting to natural gas), so that's a big plus. The problem is that using current methods to produce hydrogen are pretty inefficient. Hydrogen loves to stick to other elements and it's pretty tough to break its bonds. Much like corn-based ethanol's production process, it takes more energy to produce usable hydrogen than that hydrogen can generate from combustion or fuel cell operation. Improved solar power methods make this a moot point though, Whoever eventually comes up with an easy-to-deploy and affordable way to produce hydrogen will become VERY rich though.

Right now, ethanol produced by microbes is pretty damn promising. It's easy to use in current internal combustion engine designs with basically no more than a re-map of an ECU. Another big added benefit is that it makes for a more closed carbon loop... The microbes can eat up C02 captured from power plants or other industrial processes. I'd much rather see more development of this industry than corn-based ethanol.
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