Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday November 28, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Motorsports

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-26-2008, 01:48 PM   #1
Richardcranium419
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 156906
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: San Antonio TX
Vehicle:
2004 STI
AWDtuning Tuned

Question Rear seat Nonintrusive roll cage?

I am looking for a rear seat nonintrusive roll cage. I would like the option of having rear passengers during track days. Yes all will be wearing helmets. Are there any companying that produce such a cage? The Cusco cage would fit the bill. But as most know it is a bolt in cage and not approved by most sanctioning bodies. If there are no companies that make such an item. It looks like I will have to go custom.
Thanks for any info.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Richardcranium419 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2008, 02:04 PM   #2
boost junkie
Top Scoob 009
 
Member#: 68273
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Vehicle:
2012 WRX
GD Race Car in progress

Default

I wouldn't trust the structural integrity of a cage that follows the roofline in the rear, it requires too many bends. There really isn't a safe way to have a cage and have people in the back seat. What kind of club allows you to have people in the back seat on the track anyway?
boost junkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2008, 02:06 PM   #3
mav1c
Hoodbridge!
Moderator
 
Member#: 560
Join Date: Nov 1999
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Vehicle:
2006 STi, '11 A4
Crystal Gray, Silver

Default

My advice? Forget EVER having rear passengers if you want a rollbar. Rollbar = no rear passengers...ever.

Oh, and the Cusco cage is a joke. Strictly for show.
mav1c is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2008, 02:59 PM   #4
Richardcranium419
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 156906
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: San Antonio TX
Vehicle:
2004 STI
AWDtuning Tuned

Default

I agree that cage is a joke.

The rear of the cage could be done with few bends and door bars. It will also need cross bars across the back window. I have designed cages for offroad. Just checking if there is one out there for our cars.

Rear pass are in the car for training drives around the track. Not full speed, but still need to fit into the back.
Richardcranium419 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2008, 03:00 PM   #5
elirentz
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 70082
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: charleston, sc
Vehicle:
2005 sti, 02 s2000
88 944 beater

Default

The autopower bolt in bars are allowed by most organizations that allow roll bars ie both NASA and SCCA time trials.

Definitely forget having passengers in the rear with any sort of roll cage/ bar or harness bar. Unless you like your passengers toothless at the very least if any sort of collision occurs.
elirentz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2008, 04:16 PM   #6
Token-Negro
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 81659
Join Date: Feb 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Sammamish
Vehicle:
2006 STI / 2010 FXT
Aspen White / Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richardcranium419 View Post
I am looking for a rear seat nonintrusive roll cage. I would like the option of having rear passengers during track days. Yes all will be wearing helmets. Are there any companying that produce such a cage? The Cusco cage would fit the bill. But as most know it is a bolt in cage and not approved by most sanctioning bodies. If there are no companies that make such an item. It looks like I will have to go custom.
Thanks for any info.
I smell 3x the liability
Token-Negro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2008, 10:05 PM   #7
S.G.D
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 36448
Join Date: May 2003
Chapter/Region: VIC
Location: Vancouver
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mav1c View Post
My advice? Forget EVER having rear passengers if you want a rollbar. Rollbar = no rear passengers...ever.

Oh, and the Cusco cage is a joke. Strictly for show.
This thread really made me re-evaluate my stance on the cusco rollcage. obviously, it's not a replacement for any kind of professional or welded cage, but it does in fact do it's job to some degree.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hlight=carnage
S.G.D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2008, 11:33 PM   #8
TheRipler
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 34010
Join Date: Mar 2003
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Fire Substation #2
Vehicle:
04 LandShark STi
198.1mph

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by S.G.D View Post
This thread really made me re-evaluate my stance on the cusco rollcage. obviously, it's not a replacement for any kind of professional or welded cage, but it does in fact do it's job to some degree.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hlight=carnage
I am not persuaded.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=946826
TheRipler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2008, 11:34 PM   #9
modaddict
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 95840
Join Date: Sep 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Pasco, WA
Vehicle:
sold to a good bud
awaiting next car

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by S.G.D View Post
This thread really made me re-evaluate my stance on the cusco rollcage. obviously, it's not a replacement for any kind of professional or welded cage, but it does in fact do it's job to some degree.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hlight=carnage
I too "heard" the cusco cage did nothing. But, it's better than "no" cage at all. (assuming helmets and proper gear are worn)

For the lazy:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Klotz View Post
Too fast on tire not up to temp.

INTERIOR SHOTS IN POST #122

Went from this:


to this one corner later:





She will be missed. Part out to follow. BTW, Cusco roll cage saved my a$$
modaddict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2008, 12:14 AM   #10
mav1c
Hoodbridge!
Moderator
 
Member#: 560
Join Date: Nov 1999
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Vehicle:
2006 STi, '11 A4
Crystal Gray, Silver

Default

I think it was more the build quality of the Subaru structure than the Cusco cage.
mav1c is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2008, 12:22 AM   #11
elirentz
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 70082
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: charleston, sc
Vehicle:
2005 sti, 02 s2000
88 944 beater

Default

^ I kind of have to agree. Its possible and probably likely that the cage helped the car keep it shape some but the real life saver is the subaru structure. I've seen some nasty on track rolls in stock equipment imprezas where I was amazed at how well the car held up and protected the driver.
elirentz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2008, 12:31 AM   #12
mav1c
Hoodbridge!
Moderator
 
Member#: 560
Join Date: Nov 1999
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Vehicle:
2006 STi, '11 A4
Crystal Gray, Silver

Default

And like I said before, if you want a rollbar or roll cage in your car, don't ever expect to have rear passengers. Don't 1/2-ass it just so you can have a passenger in the back seat while on track.
mav1c is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2008, 01:04 AM   #13
Token-Negro
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 81659
Join Date: Feb 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Sammamish
Vehicle:
2006 STI / 2010 FXT
Aspen White / Silver

Default

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrSZgfZ6yf0

7.5 rolls 150mph car pretty much looked the same as the above car and it didnt have a roll cage.

Intresting thing, both the car above, and my car had the same front Cusco, and Mines spoiler combo. Just say Yes to rear wings!
Token-Negro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2008, 09:12 AM   #14
mav1c
Hoodbridge!
Moderator
 
Member#: 560
Join Date: Nov 1999
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Vehicle:
2006 STi, '11 A4
Crystal Gray, Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Token-Negro View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrSZgfZ6yf0

7.5 rolls 150mph car pretty much looked the same as the above car and it didnt have a roll cage.

Intresting thing, both the car above, and my car had the same front Cusco, and Mines spoiler combo. Just say Yes to rear wings!
I don't think he was going 150MPH when he wrecked.

But yeah, I was thinking about this video. The car really held up well for having no cage. The driver was VERY lucky to not get seriously injured. If that car had a full cage, race seats, 6-pt harnesses, and he was wearing a Hans, I would bet he would have walked away instead of spending 2 days in the hospital.
mav1c is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2008, 11:00 AM   #15
Token-Negro
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 81659
Join Date: Feb 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Sammamish
Vehicle:
2006 STI / 2010 FXT
Aspen White / Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mav1c View Post
I don't think he was going 150MPH when he wrecked.

But yeah, I was thinking about this video. The car really held up well for having no cage. The driver was VERY lucky to not get seriously injured. If that car had a full cage, race seats, 6-pt harnesses, and he was wearing a Hans, I would bet he would have walked away instead of spending 2 days in the hospital.
With the incar footage and the logs from the Dtec i would say any day he was north of 140. Many many intresting things came to light from that crash on how the car held up, how it transfered energy from impacts. To have a rear impact and rolls that hard, reason why family members seem to getting Subarus now.

*4pt belts, and racing seats were in the car. His major injury hyper extended elbow could have been helped had the car had a window net*

Last edited by Token-Negro; 12-27-2008 at 11:17 AM.
Token-Negro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2008, 10:34 PM   #16
akuhner
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 462
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Westport, CT
Vehicle:
2005 Saab 92x Aero
No more rally car...

Default

Richardcranium419 says he designs cages for offroad, which at times requires rear seat passengers. I'm way more interested in seeing what he can come up with (and watching everyone here tear it apart!) than in dissing Cusco cages we already know are just one step above Monkey Barz. Rich, let's see a design!
akuhner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2008, 10:54 PM   #17
leecea
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 37359
Join Date: May 2003
Vehicle:
2003 WRX

Default

I think the problem will be rear headroom. I'm guessing there is not enough clearance to make a safe cage for the rear seat. But, I agree with akuhner, let's see what the OP can design.
leecea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2008, 11:13 PM   #18
Jack
Add Lightness
Moderator
 
Member#: 13699
Join Date: Dec 2001
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Hopkinton, MA
Vehicle:
2007 Lotus Elise
(From General)

Default

I'm remembering my Wranglers which had full compartment cages. I do understand that there's more room and that these are probably designed for very low speed tip-overs rather than higher speed upside-down and bounce impacts. But it might be worth looking at for ideas.

jack
Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2008, 11:31 PM   #19
Mr_Snips
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 152117
Join Date: Jun 2007
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Hills Have Eyes
Vehicle:
2012 Ford F150 ECO
White

Default

You sort of have to take it into perspective. A jeeps roll cage most likely will never see a crash at over 20mph. a cage in a track car will probably see it at 100+mph. totally different structure is needed to withstand the impact and type of impact.
Mr_Snips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2008, 12:18 AM   #20
Token-Negro
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 81659
Join Date: Feb 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Sammamish
Vehicle:
2006 STI / 2010 FXT
Aspen White / Silver

Default

Can you mount a seat in the rear of the car low enough to have the clearances needed?
Token-Negro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2008, 12:32 AM   #21
Mr_Snips
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 152117
Join Date: Jun 2007
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Hills Have Eyes
Vehicle:
2012 Ford F150 ECO
White

Default

probably not...
Mr_Snips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2008, 03:00 AM   #22
pcowan
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 24029
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Kirkland. WA
Vehicle:
2004 WRX STi
JBP - Stg.Fast

Default

For a while I was thinking about getting a rollbar vs a full cage. I could tie it in to the B-pillar and then back to the rear strut towers and still have inconvienent use of my backseat for daily non-track purposes. In theory this would provide a little more strength and probably suitable to safely use a harness.

--pete
pcowan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2008, 09:01 AM   #23
urabus555
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 102091
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: North, Ontario, Canada
Vehicle:
1994 1.8l Impreza L
Open Class Build w/110hp

Default

I had an appointment booked to get a 6-Point Rollbar (mainhoop w/ harness bar, doorbars to a-pillar base, and rear backstays). The weekend before my car went in, I rolled (at a sanctioned motorsport event). The roof from the B-pillar back was perfect - the A pillar was 8 inches closer to my face! I feel quite at home in a fully caged car, I spend many high speed hours in them. But, I think I'd feel claustrophobic in a car with just a rollbar now.
urabus555 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2008, 10:21 AM   #24
elirentz
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 70082
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: charleston, sc
Vehicle:
2005 sti, 02 s2000
88 944 beater

Default

Any cage or bar that has a bar for harnesses is never going to be good to have rear passengers in (unless you're just taking them out to their corner stations). The harness bar would be in the way, not to mention any of the needed bracing bars.
elirentz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2008, 10:57 AM   #25
RRR-K2
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 22365
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Southwest NH
Vehicle:
98 Outback Wagon
2000 Impreza Sedan

Default

It might be possible to do a "Jeep style" full compartment cage by doing a mirror image of the front half, but there are a number of problems with that (in addition to the whole speed of impact thing).

#1. As they taught us in Geometry, triangles are the strongest shape, and the points of a triangle are very strong while, by contrast, the flat sides are very weak.

#2. Keeping in mind point #1, if you look at cage designs they triangulate to the top of the B-Pillar, where the (front) occupants' bodies and heads are (the parts that needs the most protection), while the flat sides are away from them (by the windshield and in the back seat area - where no one sits).

_______
/ \ |\
/ \| \
/ | \
|\_______/| \
|/ \|

NOTE: the A-Pillar bars and the bars through the back seat area are usually at more of an angle, creating truer triangles.

#3. One of the key components to creating triangulation are the tubes that come down from the top of the B-Pillar through the back seat area. If you change/remove those to create a mirror image of the front of the cage (to create more open area for passengers in the back) you significantly weaken the entire cage structure.

#4. If you mirror image the front of the cage in the back the people sitting in the back would have their bodies/heads near the flat of the triangle which wouldn't offer them very much protection in the end (see point #2.).

So while designing a cage to include occupants in the back may be possible, it's probably not very advisable.

Matt Kennedy
www.RockyRoadRacing.com
RRR-K2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cutting rear seat/ autopower roll bar 06njsti Interior & Exterior Modification 2 07-15-2009 06:14 PM
Cusco Roll Cage - Sparco Monza Seats For Sale! NickBreton89 RMIC Private Classifieds 17 02-20-2008 05:22 PM
Child Seat + Roll Cage - Padding = w1n? proletariandan Mid West Subaru Owners Club Forum -- MWSOC 7 09-02-2007 09:25 PM
Wtb: New Seats! Roll Cage 02wrxcruiser Private 'Wanted' Classifieds 0 07-22-2007 03:55 PM
how much for roll cage/ racing seats? snipes Motorsports 7 07-28-2001 07:50 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.