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Old 01-01-2009, 02:13 AM   #1
JSarv
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I changed my oil yesterday for the first time in 3k miles (about 2 months). I noticed what appeared to be copper, now I could have been seeing things but I'm pretty sure it was a bit metallic looking.

I have and only use Amsoil 5w30 (winter from about oct to march) and 10w30 in the summer time. Go anywhere between 3-4k on a change. Use Amsoil EA filters.

No noises or knock (other than what really seems to be t-belt tensioner noise on severely cold mornings <25*F)

Just turned 100k and I'm doing the T-belt/tension/water pump in a couple of weeks

Car has a good tune..

Any idea's??

Jerod
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Old 01-01-2009, 09:56 AM   #2
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Geez!

This is the kind of stuff most everyone likes to read about and post about Mobil 1 5w-30.

I don't know what to say, but I am surprised. No one ever posts abut problems with Amsoil.

This kind of makes me concerned with my recent Castrol and Penzoil purchases. I am about to test these after 150,000 trouble-free miles on mobil 1 5w-30 without any kind of problem.

Perhaps Uncle Scotty or another oil expert can comment on Amsoil.
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Old 01-01-2009, 10:32 AM   #3
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start saving for the hybrid build, because it sounds like you will soon be doing exactly that.
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Old 01-01-2009, 11:34 AM   #4
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Before you just leave it for dead on the side of the road, you might consider spending the money on an oil analysis. I know that many don't see the expense as cost-effective, but if you think your motor's letting go, an extra $100 isn't a big deal, is it? And if it's NOT letting go, it's worth $100 bucks to know for certain that's not the problem, isn't it?

I'd specifically and very strongly recommend Dyson Analysis (dot com) in this case. If there's any chance it's letting go, he'll be able to tell you. He's also very familiar with Amsoil's formulations (as well as nearly every other oil formulation on the planet), and many problems specific even to Subarus (like the recalled '08 turbo engines; he told me what specifically to look for as an indicator if I ever thought mine was letting go). His price just went up to $100 today, which is very high compared to the competition, but I'm telling you: It's worth the money for someone who's concerned that their motor is letting go (or has just failed and you're trying to gear up for a fight with a shop, etc.).
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Old 01-01-2009, 11:40 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z&cobb View Post
I don't know what to say, but I am surprised. No one ever posts abut problems with Amsoil.
It might not be the oil. There are many other failures that can result in internal engine damage. For example my turbo puked oil and the UOA showed excessive lead, previous UOA was perfect.

If it was M1 5w30, I might not be as quick to say the same thing, but I would still not rule out other influences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkramer View Post
start saving for the hybrid build, because it sounds like you will soon be doing exactly that.
Maybe so.

OP: Have you noticed any detonation/hesitation?
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Old 01-01-2009, 12:13 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surowrxa View Post
It might not be the oil. There are many other failures that can result in internal engine damage. For example my turbo puked oil and the UOA showed excessive lead, previous UOA was perfect.

If it was M1 5w30, I might not be as quick to say the same thing, but I would still not rule out other influences.



Maybe so.

OP: Have you noticed any detonation/hesitation?

Ok... First of whoa. I seen 2x the amount of copper come out of my 8k old GSXR-1000 before. It never had anything in it but Spertro-Gold (very expensive basically best next to motul) Never had a problem with it.

I'm very religious about my oil changing habits and have never burnt any oil in this car, never lost any either.

I wouldn't do a hybrid build if it was given to me. That is all I read, hybrid problems, hybrid knock, hybrid tick. A V7 or Vl8 for an extra 1k-2k is just fine with me.

No I recently switched to E85 and retuned for it, haven't had any knock while logging/tuning IAM has never dropped under 16 (as far as a tuning standpoint goes)

Well see what happens.

Jerod
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Old 01-01-2009, 01:33 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSarv View Post
I seen 2x the amount of copper come out of my 8k old GSXR-1000 before. It never had anything in it but Spertro-Gold (very expensive basically best next to motul) Never had a problem with it.

I'm very religious about my oil changing habits and have never burnt any oil in this car, never lost any either.
Glittery oil coming out of a new engine (usually) means it's breaking in. Glittery oil coming out of a 100K mile old engine means it's breaking down.

It's good that you are on top of things, but something may be tearing up your bearings. Hard cornering has starved a few, do you autoX?
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Old 01-01-2009, 01:56 PM   #8
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bulwnkl - But would the particles be too large to be picked up by uoa?

Regardless a uoa is always a good idea, especially if you're running E85.

-Dennis
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Old 01-01-2009, 02:18 PM   #9
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Going to do a leakdown/comp. test here in a few.

Please explain to me the importance of a UOA because of E85? I run a bit leaner mixture, I feel that combustion is probably a bit more complete under load, however I do get the occasional misfire, but only since its been cold running E85..



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Old 01-01-2009, 03:53 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
bulwnkl - But would the particles be too large to be picked up by uoa?

Regardless a uoa is always a good idea, especially if you're running E85.

-Dennis
Big, sparkly things in the oil won't be seen in a UOA, but if that's really what they are and the engine is going away, there'll be PLENTY of UOA-sized things in there, too.

I'd be interested in a possible tie-in between the E-85 usage and the sparklies. Terry knows lots about E-85's effects, too.
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Old 01-01-2009, 04:28 PM   #11
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I'm just curious as to how corn boos would have negligent effects on bearing wear? If I had a large amount of blowby possibly, but that would also increase moisture content (because of the boos) and there was definitely no signs of large amounts of moisture.
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Old 01-01-2009, 08:58 PM   #12
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Don't worry about it at all. I put 144k on a civic and 140 something on a nissan, both bought new. Every car I've owned and changed oil in I've noticed the catch pan when drained has metal grit in it. And the last bit of oil in the catch pan looks coppery when draining it in the recycle bottle.

Speaking of Amsoil, the use our oil because you want to put one million miles on your vehicle mentality is .
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Old 01-01-2009, 10:38 PM   #13
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JSarv, there may be no connection. Just as the engine may not be letting go. It would just be interesting to see whether there's a connection (IF the engine is letting go). Diluting oil with E-85 is not the same as diluting it with gasoline. Neither is good, but they're not quite the same thing, and so IF you have an engine problem, it'd be interesting to learn whether it began with your E-85 use or not, whether the E-85 is exacerbating the problem or not, etc.

How'd compression/leak-down go?
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Old 01-02-2009, 11:48 PM   #14
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Hopefully it won't start looking like the last pics on here... That would be BAD.

http://www.killerbmotorsport.com/ind...ickupStory.htm
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Old 01-04-2009, 12:07 PM   #15
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holy bejesus f-ed up crank.

Agree with all said above- Regardless of oil, it may extend your time before issues, but there will be issues- nothing lasts forever, and things like bearings- they are wear and tear items. If your getting copper, there's only a few place copper is used in the engine- and those are rod bearings. It also means you've used up the top part of it to get to the bottom part. But I digress....

There are two thoughts to this-:

1. Do oil analysis- like everyone else said. IT costs 100 bucks but could save you a teardown.
2. Tear down the engine. It may not be needed, but hey, if you got it apart, you can do a seal job, timing belt, yada yada.

Dont forget, your other option is also just to keep driving it.
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Old 01-04-2009, 10:30 PM   #16
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And keep us informed as to what happens.
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Old 01-04-2009, 11:00 PM   #17
JSarv
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No no no nothing like your picture lol.

Why spend $100 on an analysis so they can tell me I need a tear down? 205 short blocks are dime a dozen. Its not like I'd keep my stock rods/pistons. Cranks are cheap. But it would be even more of a reason to buy a v7/8 207..

I'm not to worried about it, I mean all an oil analysis will do is cost me $100 to tell me the inevitable.. And if there is something wrong there is nothing I can do but a rebuild.

I'll just keep my change Int. down to 3k with amsoil and hope for the best. As for a leakdown and compression test, hopefully if my TMIC comes in tom. I will do it while I have things apart.


Jerod
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Old 01-05-2009, 09:48 AM   #18
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I've had shiny bits in my oil from time to time since hitting 100k, enough to make me very nervous. That was 66k and 2-3 years ago. The wagon still runs like a top. My oil analysis at 150k didn't indicate any issues.
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Old 01-05-2009, 08:29 PM   #19
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I'm honestly thinking its my stock td04... For some reason it was smoking the turbo blanket today after a short drive out of boost... AFR's and EGT's are all good... ) Darn I'd hate to see the stock TD04 die.

Now another thing, when I said copper, I meant copper colored. I imagine its brass or something to that effect.


We'll see how long the td04 likes 19psi for a while... Maybe It'll make me mad and I'll throw in a few more. I love E85 and its uber cooling benefits.

Or maybe it is the bottom end and it will go...

New oil has been in for 200 miles now and when checking it, its just as clear as it was when I changed it.....


Jerod
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Old 01-05-2009, 08:41 PM   #20
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Comp and leakdown tell you anything? They shouldn't if you haven't been experiencing detonation.

As far as the hybrid block goes, they are great when done right. I know many that are making upwards of 400+ whp with no problems at all.

Tony
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Old 01-05-2009, 10:06 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSarv View Post
Now another thing, when I said copper, I meant copper colored. I imagine its brass or something to that effect.
From Blackstone labs:

Copper: Brass or bronze parts, copper bushings, bearings, oil coolers, also an additive in some gasoline engine oils.

-Dennis
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Old 01-05-2009, 10:10 PM   #22
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didn't do a leak down yet. Compression came back 152 151 150 150


Warm... Looks fine. Never any detonation.


207..... Waiting for the boom.... just an excuse is all it will be

Jerod
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Old 01-05-2009, 11:01 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSarv View Post
I'm honestly thinking its my stock td04... For some reason it was smoking the turbo blanket today after a short drive out of boost... AFR's and EGT's are all good... ) Darn I'd hate to see the stock TD04 die.

Now another thing, when I said copper, I meant copper colored. I imagine its brass or something to that effect.


We'll see how long the td04 likes 19psi for a while... Maybe It'll make me mad and I'll throw in a few more. I love E85 and its uber cooling benefits.

Or maybe it is the bottom end and it will go...

New oil has been in for 200 miles now and when checking it, its just as clear as it was when I changed it.....


Jerod

d00000d......if i had e85 pump near me---there isnt

id run that td04 with NO boost control at all....id just let it do what it will and tune to THAT....ya might get 24-25psi outa it in the midrange but it will taper on its own at the top so no worries

19psi on e85 is just a tease
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Old 01-06-2009, 06:06 PM   #24
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btw, doing a compression test is probably a little moot- since the areas it can test dont really have copper. (Combustion chamber, cylinder, rings, yada yada). Copper aint comming from there.
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Old 01-06-2009, 11:33 PM   #25
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Obviously, but it lets me know my top end is ok. I really think its my turbo... Its getting real hot with low egt's.... Smoking the turbo blanket...

And I will run higher boost (around 21) once I get my STi top mount on and figure out where my very small but annoying vacuum leak is...



If something is going, it will inevitably go.. We'll see, I have the cash sitting around for a good V8 swap with the whole shabang, but I don't know that I want to spend it at the moment. If it goes the DA Integra will just get drove more often until it warms up..


Jerod
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