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Old 04-11-2001, 08:15 AM   #1
CyberLogic
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Post Home Dyno System...and this one looks like it might actually work!

I came across this today and wanted to pass it along. I think I will be ordering one tonight. It looks fairly accurate and I have a friend in Chicago that says he has been using it for a few weeks and it really is as acurate as they say. I see this as a great tool for tuning especially. You would know exactly how much hp increase you get from a certain mod etc...and one of the biggest advantages is I can use it on my 4WD impreza to get dyno readings because there aren't any 4wd dyno's around here...Anyway take a look and let me know if anyone has any experience with this product! http://www.charm.net/~mchaney/roaddyno/index.html


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Old 04-11-2001, 08:20 AM   #2
Jessie James
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My only concern is as follows:

As a car accelerates, air resistance against the front of the car goes up exponentially (so it's like 2<sup>3</sup>). As you accelerate, the wind resistance kicks in and slows the car down. So at some point the deveice will be measuring speed against the wind.

It'll probably be close, but not perfect because I doubt it takes into account wind resistance I didn't see anything about asking for your coefficent of drag...

Probably about as good as a G-Tech, I would think.
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Old 04-11-2001, 08:33 AM   #3
bryanw
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I'm still trying to get to some of the pages on that site. Is that like the slowest site on the entire web or what??
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Old 04-11-2001, 08:35 AM   #4
ImprezedRS
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I didn't have any problems with the webpage, i guess cause i got a dual isdn line, but i might actually buy one of these.
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Old 04-11-2001, 08:46 AM   #5
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RS25- I was looking, and yes, it does take wind resistance into account:

Quote:
Drag coefficient: Enter the vehicle's drag coefficient. This is needed to accurately measure acceleration (and hence power), especially if you need to run the test in a higher gear due to wheelspin. If you don't know your drag coefficient, just enter 0.32. That should be close enough unless you plan to break the sound barrier!
Frontal area: Enter the vehicles frontal area. The default is based on 4th generation f-body vehicles, but should be pretty close for most muscle cars. If you are running a smaller or larger car, you should look up the frontal area for your vehicle.
Also, if you look at the sample output page, you can see the raw data, including calculated wind resistance for each data point. This seems pretty-well thought out. And the price is amazing! I might just order one of these myself...

Jordan
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Old 04-11-2001, 09:07 AM   #6
CyberLogic
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Yep it does take into account drag and wind resistance as was already stated...and since I posted this on a few boards I have found a few people that have it and everyone so far says it is very accurate and most importantly consistant. So far the biggest discrepency I have seen between that and a real dyno was someone saying that his was 4hp off...dayum...that's fine with me for $150...and as far as G-Tech goes that is very inacurate...don't even get me started on that piece of trash!
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Old 04-11-2001, 09:11 AM   #7
Jon Bogert
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I've got one and my mechanic has one. Neither one of us has been able to make it work with my RS. Let me know if you can get it to pick up a signal.

I'm going a different route--I just received an AP-22 from www.cb-racing.com/rt-ap-22.htm
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Old 04-11-2001, 09:55 AM   #8
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I noticed that one of their dyno runs they use on their site is from an impreza turbo, which has the distributerless ignition just like ours. That was the one thing worrying me about it: where can I actually get it hooked up to?

Jon Bogert: pm'd you

-Jon
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Old 04-11-2001, 10:15 AM   #9
NebScoob
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Hmmm...I wondered if someone would notice that before I officially announced my web site.

Anyway...Check out http://www.i-awd.com

So far very accurate results it looks excellent...I have tested the GanzFlow with it and you can check out the results there...

Anway...

<IMG SRC="http://disted.unl.edu/~dmerrima/impreza/myimpreza/CurrentDyno/smalldyno.gif" border=0>

<IMG SRC="http://disted.unl.edu/~dmerrima/impreza/dyno/support/dyno-cams2.jpg" border=0>

The first in a plot from MY CAR with slight mods. The second is too mod runs by cobb, one with cams and one with other mods...

As you can see, the torque curves and HP curves are very close..

Please check out my webiste! There is a lot of info about this product and will be more shortly!

[This message has been edited by NebScoob (edited April 11, 2001).]
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Old 04-11-2001, 11:05 AM   #10
stimpy
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Thats great to see it actually working!

On the spark pickup, did you stick a pin through your spark plug wire or how exactly did you do that?

-Jon
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Old 04-11-2001, 11:05 AM   #11
CyberLogic
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NebScoob...your awesome...good to see that someone has tested this before...looks like a great product for the price...can't wait till it gets here...thanks!
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Old 04-11-2001, 11:29 AM   #12
NebScoob
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It's easier than that...The Road Dyno (Home Dyno is acctually more of do it yourself, wile the road dyno is a complete kit) includes a inductive pickup clamp. It clamps onto the spark plug wire. Heres the pic...

<IMG SRC="http://disted.unl.edu/~dmerrima/impreza/dyno/support/dynokitnumbered.jpg" border=0>

Right below the 5 in the pic is a "hole" in the clamp that you can't see in the pic. Squeezing the clamp opens it up, you slip the spark wire into the hole and then release the clamp and it surrounds the wire. You then route the lead from the cable back into the cabin and hook it up to the recorder. Very simple.

I did have some problems with this system at first, and had to get tech support. I was not getting data on all the runs and the software was kicking out errors on download. They contacted me, had me give them a sample of the bad data, then sent me a new binary for downloading the data from the dataloger.

Since then it has worked almost flawlessly.

[This message has been edited by NebScoob (edited April 11, 2001).]
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Old 04-11-2001, 11:50 AM   #13
Jon Bogert
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Exclamation

NebScoob, tell me more--that's exactly the problem I was having. Can you send me that new binary?
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Old 04-11-2001, 03:48 PM   #14
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PMed you Jon...

Everyone else...If the website has been acting up I appologize...As soon as I posted here my puny webserver software started acting up. It has fixed. (Apache to the rescue! Should have done it right the first time.
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Old 04-11-2001, 04:46 PM   #15
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Bummer, no Mac software...

John
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Old 04-11-2001, 10:06 PM   #16
Penphoe
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Question

So is it worth the 140 bucks?

LaterZ!
Darren!!
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Old 04-12-2001, 12:55 AM   #17
NebScoob
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I'll post it when I get home, and PM you with the address.

I was getting two types of errors.. One was that when I went to download after doing say 4 runs...I would get an error message when tying to download...Data corrupt, try agian with new data. I would have no runs to look at.

I kind of "fixed" that problem when I noticed that if I started recording from 1500 rpm instead of 1000 rpm as in the instructions. The reason why I thought this would work was that when I first started using the Dyno, I was starting at higher rpms becuase I was having trouble holding steady at 1000 rpm. As I got better, and started from 1000 rpm, I would get no data. I'm still going from 1500, even with the new binary. (Which also lets you "pick" your starting point. Old binary had no such feature.)

Next, I noticed that I had a real problem doing multiple runs. Ussually only the first one would record good data, the next ones down the line seemed to be off...Mulitiple runs were supposed to be on "tracks" so that the dyno knew where one ended and the next began, but it was like the downloader was ignoring that...

I'd get home after four runs, download the data. I'd have four runs. First was good, second was very long and you could "see" the good data at the beggining but it exploded from there. Third and fourth runs were very short, nothing there at all.

I was very down on the system...

By the way, the program tech support came from the U.K...which is why I think the sample date is from an impreza turbo!

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Old 04-12-2001, 02:00 AM   #18
ImprezaRS dot com
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On your road dyno tests - theoretically your first run should be your BEST, because with multiple launches the scooby ECU increases ignition retard with subsequent launches, which kills power on the subsequent runs.

The only way to prevent that retard is with the JC Sports torque chip (their claim) or a programable ECU.

So, I'd guess the results varying by as much as 4 hp during back to back runs is likely due to slight changes in driver technique and ignition retard, etc... However, getting repeatable results within 3% of each other is still a great accomplishment.

Look like the intake can give "as much as 9 hp" if you are looking at it from optimistic eyes like mine That could explain the 1/2 second people are reporting gaining in the qtr mile with it.
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Old 04-12-2001, 05:30 AM   #19
NebScoob
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Larry,

That's what I had heard too, however, since geting my "update" for the dyno software I been able to do may more "back to back" runs and been able to get data...Look at this

Typicaly Four Runs each time I test, ussually 2 back to back, turn around and 2 more back to back...

176 158
175 158
176 159
177 156

175 157 (Yeah, but its a wierd one.)
174 157
411 164 (Big Spike! then wierd..)
173 155

173 158
172 157
174 159
173 155

172 156
175 158
173 157
172 155

As you can see, the first three runs are pretty close most of the time, and the first is not always the best! The fourth run though, is always low... And the torque number is the one I see varying the most.

Here's why I bout the dyno though...

<IMG SRC="http://www.i-awd.com/postedpics/dynotest_r2_c2.gif" border=0>

It clearly shouws how your intake increases power all across the powerband. This kind of info tells me alot more than a g-tech could.

For instance I now know details like...

A K&N did not increase HP, rather broadened power on wither side of peak...

Removing the bumper vents increased power, no t by the traditional way, rather it allowed less variance in the data and raised the averge power up. (With the vents in place, the intake pulled air from the engine bay, resulting in large differences in power)

There is a weird hole at 4400 rpm or so, that doesn't like to go away with mods. I think this is where the subaru ecu or knock sensor is reducing power on us for some reason. You can see that on both my, and other dyno graphs. I think this is why the peak torque number varys so much...

Is it worth the $150, I'd say yes!
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Old 04-12-2001, 05:59 AM   #20
BobR
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NebScoob,
could you please send me that new binary(my version doesn't have start rpm feature).
Thanks
BobR
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Old 04-12-2001, 06:05 AM   #21
edekker
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That dip or ‘hole’ could actually be related to, what some believe (including me), the point where the ECU actually ignores the knock sensor. I’ve seen evidence, which could be interpreted that beyond 4000 RPM, the ECU goes open-loop regardless of throttle position or engine load.

If that’s true, the ECU must run a map utilizing conservative parameter settings. That could explain the drop in power.

Ed.
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Old 04-12-2001, 06:27 AM   #22
NebScoob
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BobR,

PMed You..

Ed..

Interesting...That could be the case.
You think it does this no matter what the throttle position? Again interesting...

How does it reduce power I wonder...Timing? Fuel?

Oh...I hope you mean it stops looking at the
airflows from the MAP and the 02 sensors and not the knock sensor! I don't think you would ever want the car to ignore the knock sensor since it protects against detonation!
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Old 04-12-2001, 08:26 AM   #23
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NebScoob,

An interesting observation can be made if you have a fast-acting, LED-ladder A/F meter (non-numeric, non-LCD display) connected to the front O2 sensor (the reading of rear O2 sensor is too sluggish). You will be able to identify the feedback mode the ECU runs in, by observing the behavior of the A/F indicator. A closed-loop ECU mode is confirmed whenever the A/F meter puts on show of that playful dance around the stoich – indicative of a closed-loop system behavioral response. The ECU is likely running open-loop whenever the A/F indicator remains fixed at a certain position along its scale (or may disappear altogether).

At around 4000+RPM and higher, the A/F indicator switches, from its playful dance around the stoich, to a staid position near the stoich (or slightly higher) and remains there as long as the revs are kept that high. It will do this even on the lightest of throttle positions, in any gear. When the throttle is made heavy enough (~50% or greater), the indicator jumps rich (ECU recognizes a WOT or near-WOT and adds fuel).

One of the advantages (and there are several) of having a knock sensor is that it allows the ECU to take advantage of aggressive timing to make more power than it could have otherwise. But it can only do this for the range of RPMs through which the knock sensor can be depended upon. As the RPM goes higher, the will be a point where engine noise become too substantial. The noise floor of the knock sensor will have risen too high, making it difficult to discern actual knock signal from the noise (among where the knock signal is buried).

If that’s true, the ECU must enter a different mode of operation, most likely one that utilizes conservative power-robbing timing (to avert detonation, etc.), which doesn’t depend on the knock sensor for ignition advance. And, from what I had observed, chances are the ECU runs open-loop as well (not necessarily meaning it ignores the MAS or MAF however).

Ed.
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Old 04-12-2001, 10:59 AM   #24
Rick Hunter
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Hey Ed,

I've got my Autometer A/F gauge hooked up to the rear O2 sensor since it seems the front O2 operates beyond the normal 0-1V range. I don't have any cats yet as I'm still tuning the car and thus despite its location the meter is quite responsive.

At roughly 1/3 throttle or less and below 4000 rpms, the meter is doing its happy dance between rich and lean indicating closed-loop mode. If I go past 4000 at any throttle position, it jumps instantly to semi-rich and stays there. If I floor it at 1000 rpms, it also jumps rich but then slightly leans out to semi-rich as the turbo coming up to speed. (I need a new rrfpr / high-flow fuel pump!)

My results seem to mirror your hypothesis. When it comes to the knock sensor, I've got no idea if it can retard gradually or not. hmmm I might try to hook up a voltmeter to it, perhaps that might shed some light on how it works.

ciao
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Old 04-13-2001, 12:00 AM   #25
stimpy
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Rick: pm'd you

-Jon
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