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Old 01-05-2009, 01:31 PM   #1
Qc SleePER
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Default Engine dilema, need expert advice fast...

First off this is my first thread and I am a noob to mech work so go easy on me lol.
I have blown a rod in my 2002 Impreza RS, running without oil does that especially since the check oil light is more of an idiot light telling you your engine is already toast .
I have decided to find a used stock engine and swap it out, I plan on rebuilding the existing engine with quite a few mods but that's another thread.

I have found 3 engines locally that I think are a good buy, I need your help to make the decision and to verify if some of these options sound kosher.

A) 2002 RS engine (standard) with 128 000km for 1100.00$

B) 2002 Forester engine (automatic) with 42 000km for 1700.00$

I've been told that it will fit, it will use the flywheel from my existing setup, I'd like comfirmation that this is will work well and ANY other info you can think of.

C) 2005 RS engine from (standard) with only 9 000km for 1500.00$

Obviously I am leaning towards this brand new engine but I have been told a few things that are making my nervous.
The first is that the timing belts are different so I will have to change those, second there is apparently an extra sensor on the 2005 engine that may cause the CEL to stay on, I'd rather it not be but I am still tempted as I throw CEL all the time...
I think there are a few minor things to change but I am getting a brand new engine for a car that I love so an extra few $$$ will be worth the extra miles I gain.

Anyone having done similar swaps I am desperate need of your experience.
Thanks in advance to everyone.


Seb.
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Old 01-05-2009, 01:53 PM   #2
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If your gonna spend the money, mine as well swap her
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Old 01-05-2009, 02:18 PM   #3
Qc SleePER
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLI99 View Post
If your gonna spend the money, mine as well swap her
You mean swap for the 05' engine I assume, yeah that's my feeling too.
It's going to cost me 300$ labour to drop it in, this guy is like family and has alot of experience with Subaru's until 01' when he became a tech for Audi thus my 05' engine ?'s.
My aim is to tune my current busted engine so CEl might not be a huge factor but I like the peace of mind of knowing I have CEL safety net.
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Old 01-05-2009, 02:35 PM   #4
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Also in 05 (least the US model) the throttle body changed, so that would play a whole diff part.

all in all i would stick with a motor your year, since it seems you could buy the 05 motor and stick stuff from your old one on there(manifolds etc etc) so it could work but than you dont have it for building up the old motor
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Old 01-05-2009, 02:45 PM   #5
Qc SleePER
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See the cautious side of me is thinking the same, I want my car soon so making the transition easy and brainless guarantees me my car back in a timely fashion.
If I go the unchartered route I take a risk that it doesn`t work and that I end up having to shell out more $$$.

I don NOT want to do a WRX swap, it seems alot of peeps lean towards those but I get into plenty of trouble with my plain old NA.

I`m not concerned with the old motor for now, in truth I bought this car used and I am sure it was beat to hell and back so whatever I can use from the old engine is a bonus.

Realistically if I get this almost new 05 engine the body could be too far gone by the time I am able to drop my old engine in after a rebuild, I live in Quebec and winter 6 months a year here and LOTS of salt.

Keep the help coming, I`ve been 4 months without a car and I am going nuts every time it snows
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Old 01-05-2009, 02:48 PM   #6
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peeps? what am i an easter candy

You have been without the car for 4 months and you are in need of advice fast? Seems more like you have plenty of time.
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Old 01-05-2009, 03:11 PM   #7
Qc SleePER
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LOL peeps is a local thing, I`m french canadian, I didn`t mean to offend anyone

I don`t mean any disrespect by saying I`m in a rush, I am glad members are taking the time to help myself and others out.
I am worried these engines will be sold by the time I know what to do with them, it took me over a week to find a few decent priced engines, others I found wher over 150 000km and 1 500$+.

I`ve been doing more homework on this and I will post my findings so others can comment, so far rs25.com has good info on engine swaps.

http://www.rs25.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86096

Quote:
98 has the DOHC whose heads have different port and bolt pattern for the intake...99 was the DOHC to SOHC transition year...Any SOHC (Phase II) 2.5 intake/engine combo will bolt together from 99/2000 thru at lease 05.

After 05, as some have mentioned, the variable timing thing was used so I am not sure about. (I think the intake would still bolt up but the vairable cam timing is something I have not looked into but am sure there would be ECU or other changes required to use in earlier cars)

Also as previously mentioned, 05 was the transition to DBW so the intake would not work without either an ECU and DBW specific wiring changes -OR- considerable machine work and spacer to convert it to a drive by cable friendly intake, however, same pattern so any 2000-2004 drive by cable intake manifold will fit.
How do I know??

I inadvertently bought a 2005 2.5 (wasn't aware it was DBW until it arrived...oops!) to replace my 98 DOHC with so I am learning as I go. I am currently using a 2000 intake manifold and am converting the 98 harness to fit the 2000 intake so it will plug n play into my 98 RS.
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Old 01-06-2009, 02:32 AM   #8
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I say just stick to your model year for the sake of less headaches. Good luck.
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Old 01-06-2009, 09:51 AM   #9
Qc SleePER
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Thanks chazly,

My mech was pretty sure the Forester engine would fit easily, same year and we just had to switch the flywheel.
The Forester engine is ready and guaranteed and had results from a compression test, a plus in my books.

As for the 05' engine, we spoke this morning and he though we might hit a snap with both the throttle body AND maybe the catalytic converter.
The guy who is selling this engine bought it to swap out of his WRX, I dunno if it's been sitting in his garage or what, so that a minus in that choice.

I've got until Friday to buy these engines, I was able to get the Forester engine on hold.

Unless I can find someone who has done the same mod with the 05' I will be using the Forester engine.

Any other help will be greatly appreciated.

Seb
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Old 01-06-2009, 10:26 AM   #10
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I'd stay away from the 05. Like you saw in your research 05+ introduced the variable valve timing and drive by wire throttle bodies which means you'd either have to hack in an 05 ECU & wiring harness with the pedal controls or you'd have to strip down the engine to the block and swap over the other parts from your busted engine to make it work. If you were going to go that route I'd just go out and get a STI block with 11:1 comp pistons instead if you planned to build up a motor the NA route.
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Old 01-06-2009, 01:11 PM   #11
Qc SleePER
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Thanks runoverdrive

The more I read the more headaches I see down the line with the 05.
I am waiting on a call from a master subaru technician before days end but I expect he will say much of the same.
Like I said I`m far from an expert with cars, I know from reading and not hands on which in my books is what counts.
I would LOVE to do a rebuild NA, I know there is friction between the NA purist and WRX lovers who vouvh for a swap, both camps make excellent points.
I find myself in the NA camp, gas is expensive and I have a lead foot so anything in the 190-200HP is a NA would be my goal, the 01-04 are the only model Subaru`s I like.
I would go so far as to do a complete overhaul of the bodywork and dropped a slightly tuned engine in there with alot of suspension/bushing mods, I want to keep it around a long time and eventually go electric but I digress...

So the Forester engine it is I guess, if anyone has done a Forester engine I would love to know what you think.

Man I love this forum
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Old 01-06-2009, 02:25 PM   #12
suzuki4life
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you would dump less cash and fuel to make 200 hp with a turbo than na.
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Old 01-06-2009, 03:10 PM   #13
Qc SleePER
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From what I have read you are right, there are few places up here that do it, they want 7000$ for a wrx swap.
Chances are the doors will be hanging off the hinges and the body rusted out by the time I have the money to do that anyway.
It`s always nice to dream though
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Old 01-06-2009, 03:21 PM   #14
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I'd go with the Forester motor. Pull the flexplate off it and put your flywheel (and bolts) and clutch on it. It should be as simple as that. Unless the mechanic finds little nagging issues with the donor motor, there is no reason why it couldn't be done in a day.

Jay
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Old 01-06-2009, 05:10 PM   #15
Qc SleePER
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Ok now I am convinced

Thanks Storm, your the third person to tell me that so I'm going for that.
I kind of like the idea of Forester engine, I have a better chances of it being less beaten especially in an automatic, at 42k's how badly could they have damaged it?

I'm off to buy an engine, I will get back to you all with the outcome and maybe a few pics if my wife gives a day this weekend.

Thank you all for help.
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Old 01-06-2009, 05:47 PM   #16
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On an automatic equipped Forester, Have the mechanic check the cooling system (t-stat, waterpump housing, etc) and oil....for signs of overheating. If he can pull the pan off and check for any signs of neglect, it'll pay off in spades later on.

Good luck,
Jay
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Old 01-06-2009, 07:38 PM   #17
Qc SleePER
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I'll let him know, I don't know how to check those myself let alone where most of that stuff is under the hood.
This is where I painfully display my total newbness, but I'm learning
I am the one picking up the engine, I have no idea what to look for to know if it's any good, I have a waranty but it's only like 3 months.
Are you thinking it's being sold off due to overheating or are we just taking precautions so we can change those items before taking all that time to drop an engine in?

Much appreciated,

Seb
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Old 01-06-2009, 07:46 PM   #18
Qc SleePER
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On a side note I have been reading and there are alot of things I found in common with my ride before the blowout.
For one I used only full synthetic premium quality which according to some runs too thin and suggest I use Dino (?) which I assume is like a 10W30.
Second I had a leaky head gasket for a long time that finally got fixed but I am sure it was already too far gone thus the knocking etc.

Is there anything I should change while I'm doing the swap (like the HG) or just verify the things posted above.
I'm not trying to milk this thread, I just like to be prepared and want to keep my baby in top shape for as long as I can.
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Old 01-06-2009, 08:00 PM   #19
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Another vote for the Forester engine.

Just check it thoroughly for leaks (including pulling off the timing covers). Look carefully. Many places selling used engines will wash them to make them look better than they are. If it hasn't been washed it's easier to inspect for any signs of previous signs of oil leaks or a bad HG.
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Old 01-06-2009, 08:07 PM   #20
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Its a good idea to do all the "easy" gaskets and seals while the engine is on the hoist/stand so that you dont have to mess around with valve cover gaskets-seals/main seals/cam seals, etc. in another 10k miles. keep in mid that the forester engine is going to be a 50k mile engine b4 you know it, so the more preventative maintenance you can do while its easy and quick to do, the better. Heres to you not having to pull it out again for another 200k+.
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Old 01-06-2009, 10:16 PM   #21
Qc SleePER
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Thanks alot guys, I feel alot better about this.
I think I will take a ride to where the engine is at and snap alot of pics, apparently it's still in the car.

Had I known I could use the Forester engine I might have found one cheaper by just asking for a Forestert instead of an Impreza engine, then again scrap yard might code them the same.

I put about 15-20 000 km a year on my ride so I'll see the high side of 50 soon enough.
My friend is solid, he won't let me put in a piece of crap but then again I'm stuck returning it, etc.

For the record I now know where some of those previously mentioned parts are

TY

Last edited by Qc SleePER; 01-06-2009 at 10:38 PM.
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Old 01-06-2009, 10:42 PM   #22
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http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...29&postcount=6

Alright so I found a bunch pics in the forums and I'll check around the crank seal, timing cover, water pump housing if I can.
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Old 01-07-2009, 12:10 PM   #23
Qc SleePER
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Default Parts for the swap

Ok so I put a deposit on the engine and I have a truck to pick up the engine.
I got it in writing that if I don`t take the engine apart I can return it so a visual inspection when I get to my mech will do fine.

I`ve put together a bit of a list of things to change while the engine is hoisted, I`d like to know what you guys think.

valve cover gaskets
head gaskets
oil pan gaskets
water pump gaskets (gasket pack 250$)
timing belt (100$)
thermostat (15$)

I know this will up the ante a bit, but from a few discussions I`ve had it shouls add about 2 hours to the total time it takes to drop it in, that`s cheapcompared to taking it back out to get that stuff done right away.

My wife says I`m doing my ''overly prepared'' thing again
I like to be safe rather than sorry.

Last edited by Qc SleePER; 01-07-2009 at 12:57 PM. Reason: added online prices I found
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Old 01-07-2009, 12:52 PM   #24
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That list is a little overkill. With only 42,000km (26,000miles) your engine is only just broken in. Most of the things in that list will not be an issue for quite a few miles/km to come. Heck.. I wouldn't even both with Synthetic oil for another 5-10k. Even the HG should last quite a while... but.. that is the one thing in that list that I'd go ahead and replace anyway. The odds of that 2002HG going out in the future are pretty good. It's just become way to common a problem to ignore it. Also, the rest of the things you've listed off can be changed with the engine in the car (except perhaps for the oilpan gasket) when the normal interval comes around.

So.. to sum-up.
Do the HG.. the rest should be just fine.

Good Luck!
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Old 01-07-2009, 01:01 PM   #25
Qc SleePER
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I just a made a few calls for parts to a friend and I just got laughed at
They agree that I`m going way too far other than the HG.

I will pick up a HG and get the oil pan gasket and get those done.

Of the mutiple types of fourms I browse this is by far the most helfull and respectfull.

I`m adding some infor on the HG`s that helped me understand the problem with pics.

Quote:
cylinder head gaskets Certain 1999 through 2002 2.5L equipped vehicles may experience an external coolant leak at the head gaskets. As a precautionary measure, SOA is adding a special conditioner to the engine cooling system. This conditioner prevents leaks from occurring and corrects existing leaks.
Only early Phase II 2.5 liter engines are affected. Phase I 2.5 liter engines (some 1999 model year and prior years) are not affected. Countermeasures applied to the manufacturing process for those 2002 and later VINS not affected by this campaign have eliminated the need for this campaign to be performed on those vehicles.
In the future, it will be necessary to add Genuine Subaru Cooling System Conditioner to the SUBARU vehicle cooling system whenever the engine coolant is replaced.
If the vehicle owner has this repair performed promptly, Subaru will extend warranty coverage on cylinder head gasket external coolant leaks to a period of 8 years or 100,000 miles, whichever occurs first. Warranty coverage begins on the date the vehicle was delivered to the first retail purchaser or on the date the vehicle was first placed in demo or rental service. The owner must have Genuine Subaru Cooling System Conditioner added to the vehicle at any subsequent cooling system services at the interval specified in the Warranty and Maintenance Booklet under the heading “Schedule of Inspection and Maintenance Services”. Resulting damage caused by a lack of maintenance or low coolant level will not be covered
this one is off a recall site.

Quote:
EJ25 SOHC, 2000+ 2.5RS, 10:1 compression ratio. Very few reported problems of blown head gaskets. Gasket is approximately 0.6mm thick installed. Made of a single sheet of steel.


this is off a tutorial online: http://wac.addr.com/auto/obs/headgasket/headgasket.html

Much respect,

Seb

Here

Last edited by Qc SleePER; 01-07-2009 at 01:20 PM. Reason: added info on HG
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