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Old 01-11-2009, 07:14 PM   #1
bangoos
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Default Timing belt installation Haynes manual ARRRGGG!!!

Having great difficutly installing a timing belt on an 03 wrx and an 06 wrx. The haynes manual is completely wrong. If I set the cam gears as they show, the valves hit the piston.
Spent two hours lookn for good info here on Nasioc, but found nothing specific.
All help is appreciated!
Thanks!

Edit::
Make sure you read through this thread to beyond where the timing belt alignment guide is shown. The image is not clear, but there is a straight line on the crank gear which points straight up when aligning the gears on each side. The woodruff key points straight down.
Since I posted this thread I have heard stories of how seasoned mechanics have bent all the valves on these engines. These engines are outside of engine normalcy, so be careful, and hand turn the crank first to check your work. And then check that your marks are still aligned after hand turning it over a few times.

Say, "Thank you grandpa", and get to work...
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Last edited by bangoos; 06-14-2009 at 09:16 PM.
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Old 01-11-2009, 07:20 PM   #2
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The double marks on the gears line up with each other. The single marks on the gears face up and line up with the back timing cover. The crank points straight up and lines up with the mark on the block. Hope that helps.
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Old 01-11-2009, 07:20 PM   #3
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the drivers side cams are under tension, so you will have to overcome the pressure of the valve springs. set the 2 cams where they should be and lock them gently with a pair of vise-grips. the passenger cams are slack and shouldn't be a problem.

this is all assuming you rotated everything to the lined up position when you 1st took off the covers.
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Old 01-11-2009, 07:44 PM   #4
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Default timing marks on gears? Crank staight up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmike25rs View Post
The double marks on the gears line up with each other. The single marks on the gears face up and line up with the back timing cover. The crank points straight up and lines up with the mark on the block. Hope that helps.
The Haynes manual shows the arrow on the crank gear pointed at the mark on the crank sensor mount. The woodruf key on the crank is pointed horizontal to the drivers bank of cylinders. This could be the problem. Perhaps the manual is using the wrong reference. Using the haynes guide, the #2 piston hits the intake valve when the double cam marks are lined up as shown. (1/4" apart from each other) The cams are physically in the wrong position when using the haynes guide. The intake and exhaust lobes on #1 should be rabbit ears apart from each other, they are not. The number 2 cylinder lobes should be approx. apposite with the exhaust just closed on the back side of it's ramp, and the intake should be approching open position on the front of its ramp. Both #1 and #2 pistons are at TDC.
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Old 01-11-2009, 07:47 PM   #5
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The 06 engine uses avecs while the 02 engine does'nt, But the same problem is occurring with both engines.
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Old 01-11-2009, 07:52 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeldingHank View Post
the drivers side cams are under tension, so you will have to overcome the pressure of the valve springs. set the 2 cams where they should be and lock them gently with a pair of vise-grips. the passenger cams are slack and shouldn't be a problem.

this is all assuming you rotated everything to the lined up position when you 1st took off the covers.
Both engines had broken gears when I began to do the repair. The gear alignments shown in the haynes book are wrong for these engines.
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Old 01-11-2009, 07:59 PM   #7
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yes, the crank should pretty much be pointing straight up at the crank-sensor. with both double marks lined up on both sets of gears. to line up the lower gears you may need to use a mirror. ( i know i do)
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Old 01-11-2009, 08:07 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bangoos View Post
The Haynes manual shows the arrow on the crank gear pointed at the mark on the crank sensor mount. The woodruf key on the crank is pointed horizontal to the drivers bank of cylinders. This could be the problem. Perhaps the manual is using the wrong reference. Using the haynes guide, the #2 piston hits the intake valve when the double cam marks are lined up as shown. (1/4" apart from each other) The cams are physically in the wrong position when using the haynes guide. The intake and exhaust lobes on #1 should be rabbit ears apart from each other, they are not. The number 2 cylinder lobes should be approx. apposite with the exhaust just closed on the back side of it's ramp, and the intake should be approching open position on the front of its ramp. Both #1 and #2 pistons are at TDC.
I believe the arrow is to show TDC not the actual mark to line the sprocket up on. There should be a line on the sprocket that goes straight up. The arrow should be off to the side.

I can't get the link to work, but if you go to www.spt.subaru.com and then click on the installation/technical information link on the right side, there are installation instructions for the STi timing belt. It's pulled straight out of the Subaru service manual. But once I click the link, it comes up with an error message. I don't know if it's my computer or if Subaru is having technical problems with that link.
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Old 01-11-2009, 08:09 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeldingHank View Post
yes, the crank should pretty much be pointing straight up at the crank-sensor. with both double marks lined up on both sets of gears. to line up the lower gears you may need to use a mirror. ( i know i do)
Ok, to be precise, the woodruf key should be straight up, and then the cam gears have the double marks aligned with each other on both sides, with the single cam mark on the top of the intake gears aligned with the indent mark on the inner covers.
Is this correct?
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Old 01-11-2009, 08:10 PM   #10
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Well, Subaru does have the STIS (Subaru Technical Information System) website down. Thats where that link comes from. The STIS website is the Dealer-Only site for Technicians. I work at a dealership and have access to that site, but I can't get any info to come up. If you check tomorrow morning, I bet the site will be back up when the dealers open.
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Old 01-11-2009, 08:15 PM   #11
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Hope this helps.

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Old 01-11-2009, 08:20 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solbey11 View Post
I believe the arrow is to show TDC not the actual mark to line the sprocket up on. There should be a line on the sprocket that goes straight up. The arrow should be off to the side.

I can't get the link to work, but if you go to www.spt.subaru.com and then click on the installation/technical information link on the right side, there are installation instructions for the STi timing belt. It's pulled straight out of the Subaru service manual. But once I click the link, it comes up with an error message. I don't know if it's my computer or if Subaru is having technical problems with that link.
Hah! You must be correct on the crank gear mark.
I'm having trouble with links today as well.
The 2 haynes manuals I am using cover from 92 through 06, and they are both inaccurate, or simply inadequate. I seem to remember seeing the correct alignment elseware, and the double marks did not align when at TDC.
This is an highly strange arrangement. All the engines I have worked on in my life use TDC as reference, and therefore are straight forward in this regard. I was about ready to index the cams to get it right.
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Old 01-11-2009, 08:32 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STIBungy View Post
Hope this helps.

Thank you kindly for your help. This is so basic it should be stickified or something....
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Old 01-11-2009, 08:46 PM   #14
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Anybody triyng to do ANYTHING to these cars without the FACTORY Service Manual should just stop right there and kiss it good buy.

It wont end well.
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Old 01-11-2009, 09:14 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
Anybody triyng to do ANYTHING to these cars without the FACTORY Service Manual should just stop right there and kiss it good buy.

It wont end well.

QFT +eleventybillion
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:00 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
Anybody triyng to do ANYTHING to these cars without the FACTORY Service Manual should just stop right there and kiss it good buy.

It wont end well.
Sounds like a terribly good idea to just post the above belt chart as a "thread of note" in one of the engine headings. No one should have to waste time like I had too, in order to find something as basic as knowing where the woodruff key should be when setting the cam gear positions.
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:08 AM   #17
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not sure if this is true but one of the parts guys at a dealership said that Helms makes dealership service manuals.

can anyone verify this?
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:08 AM   #18
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So according to the above chart, the woodruff key is on the bottom of the crank, while the double marks on the cam gears are aligned together on each side.
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Old 01-12-2009, 11:41 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bangoos View Post
So according to the above chart, the woodruff key is on the bottom of the crank, while the double marks on the cam gears are aligned together on each side.
Correct. It's really a plug and play system...nothing terribly exciting about the process.
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Old 01-12-2009, 01:37 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bangoos View Post
Thank you kindly for your help. This is so basic it should be stickified or something....
or maybe a big FAQ of all things subaru, kind of a manifesto...


yeah its in there, have to dig a little bit, go to the maintenance section. Second post down has 3 really good links about timing belt replacement.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...php?p=13628938
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Old 01-13-2009, 02:19 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feign View Post
Correct. It's really a plug and play system...nothing terribly exciting about the process.
The agonizing ambiguities exist in that there are embossments on the crank gear. (a line, a triangular arrow, plus the woodruff key position) Then you have to know that the cam gear marks have no relevance to TDC (ZEN has imploded at this point)(I guess modernity has managed to remove religion from the Japanese as well).
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Old 01-13-2009, 02:37 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkramer View Post
or maybe a big FAQ of all things subaru, kind of a manifesto...


yeah its in there, have to dig a little bit, go to the maintenance section. Second post down has 3 really good links about timing belt replacement.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...php?p=13628938
One of the 3 threads you are directing us to is pretty good, with all of the photos etc. You just have to know that the line on the crank gear points up, and ignore the other reference marks., this arrangement is an abstraction, number one piston is down 90 degrees, and the cams are; whoa, go figure... The old 911 engines seem rational compared to this. Even the Honda 90 cycle engines I worked on in the 60s made sense. I don't know of another engine that is as bizzare as these subarus on this issue. I can only guess their reasoning for this. Perhaps they worried excessively about people bending their valves if they aligned this stuff in the normal fashion.
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Old 02-06-2009, 09:57 AM   #23
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this is much help. I am doing a timing belt this weekend. I think my car slip a tooth cuz its running like a dead injector at idle but goes like hell when I hit boost and its not plugs or coils.
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Old 02-06-2009, 11:40 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejpowerguy View Post
this is much help. I am doing a timing belt this weekend. I think my car slip a tooth cuz its running like a dead injector at idle but goes like hell when I hit boost and its not plugs or coils.
with the engine running....take teh OIL filler cap off and if it

shoots exhaust gas and oil splatter out the opening, you need a new shortblock and you can forget the rest
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