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Old 11-20-2008, 09:23 PM   #1
scooby
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Default 04 STI Green & meth 370/380 seem low?

I don't currently have dyno sheets in front of me cause my tuners printer wasn't working. But to keep it simple car makes peak power a little under 5000rpms right to redline holding 25psi down to 24psi at 6500 to 7000rpms. My tuner made no timing changes to the car he said it would do its own once I drive it around.

My mods are:
perrin big maf
perrin turbo inlet
fp green 2.4" 8cm
grimmspeed external w/38mm 18lb spring setup
ssac fmic
catless turbo back
gruppe-s unequal header
coolingmist
perrin modified injectors
walbro pump

93+100% alcohol 25psi
air/fuel was 11.5 then 10.6 towards redline.
best it made was 371hp 382 ft/lbs on dynojet uncorrected.
car feels strong and surprising holds boost great.
I notice alot of people are making this on 20-21psi and pump.
Any suggestions??
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Old 11-20-2008, 09:39 PM   #2
fujiillin
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What does a stock sti put down on said dyno?

I'd take it to the track and put your numbers in a calculator.

Other than that, the SSAC is a POS.

Oh yea, your tuner is full of **** regarding timing.
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Old 11-20-2008, 09:39 PM   #3
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Don't worry about the numbers. Just go to the track and you will see if it's running good or not.
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Old 11-20-2008, 09:45 PM   #4
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yea im not really worried about numbers I was more interested in how these other guys are making over 400 on the greens as far as playing with timing or leaner a/f. My stage 2 made 270/282 on this dyno, had some boost issues first time tuning green on pump but i think it was in the 340whp range.

In regards to the timing he changed nothing maybe he should have advanced it a bit?
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Old 11-20-2008, 09:52 PM   #5
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So, what to play
with next ?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fujiillin View Post
What does a stock sti put down on said dyno?

I'd take it to the track and put your numbers in a calculator.

Other than that, the SSAC is a POS.

Oh yea, your tuner is full of **** regarding timing.
What do you have to back up the ssac being a POS. There are lot's of people making good power with them. Maybe because it uses the same core as the turboxs ? A quick search will turn up a few. Now try and find where it held people back.

Anyhoo,See what it traps. I have pulled on people who's agile numbers were higher than my buschur dyno numbers . My wagon vs their sedans so there you go.
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Old 11-20-2008, 09:58 PM   #6
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i would suggest going to a 44mm ewg (vband clamp). just to be on the safe side of things, hearsay from people about having trouble on 38mm ewg.

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/2-5-lite...out-green.html
hopefully that link can help you out.
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Old 11-20-2008, 09:59 PM   #7
I<3subie
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Ah I'd log that timing bafore you run it... Motor go boom
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Old 11-20-2008, 10:04 PM   #8
scooby
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Probably not heading to track anytime soon. My brother should have his evo8 tuned by saturday his numbers should be close to mine so he may be a good comparison from a roll. If I pull on him then my car is running good, after all the only numbers that really matter are trap and e/t.


Originally posted this thread to see if these 400whp greens had more done then my setup maybe I missed a valuable mod or two.
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Old 11-20-2008, 10:04 PM   #9
Phatron
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he shouldnt be advancing it....he should be redoing the whole table. you're probably hugging the high load column from 3500rpm to redline.....unless he did something funky to keep your loads the same...

a stock 06 sti rom runs ~23* at 4000rpm up to 29* at redline....thats probably why he has you running so rich. most people run meth to 11.5 all the way to redline but the timing is down around 20-23* at redline.

not sure what he meant by "he'll redo the timing after you've driven on it for a while"....thats pretty weird. unless hes waiting to see how your fuel trims turn out.

with all that being said, those are almost the exact numbers i made on 91+meth with my green on a dyno dynamics.

if you were tuned on a dynojet then you still have some power on the table.

as for all these 400whp greens you're talking about, i have money that says they are all on dynojets or they are on 100+ octane on a dyno dynamics.

FWIW i have never seen a 400+whp green that wasnt on a dynojet or dynapack

Last edited by Phatron; 11-20-2008 at 10:12 PM.
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Old 11-20-2008, 10:13 PM   #10
scooby
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His exact words were "He doesn't have to touch the timing, my car will adjust it on its own. It will advance until it feels slight knock then pull it back down a little. If I come back and redyno the numbers should be slightly higher."

As for the running rich towards redline, my car insist on adjusting it rich itself he was pulling fuel out but everytime it was back to around 10.6. We lowered the meth down 20 percent (varicool controller at 8 with 760cc nozzle) car ran better but still rich up top.

Its a dynojet. What do I need to log it and show you the logs?
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Old 11-20-2008, 10:19 PM   #11
Phatron
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and by " your car will adjust it on its own" he means you're gonna knock until the ecu either lowers the IAM or adds a bunch of FLKC.....then he can simply adjust the total timing to match where the ecu settled.

sounds like a scheme to charge you for another tune.

and your car doesnt adjust it rich itself during a WOT pull. your car makes no fueling adjustments when you are in open loop. your car runs the exact fuel you tell it to through the maf scaling, injector scaling, and open loop fueling table. the only way your car will run richer in OL is if your IAM drops enough to throw you into the failsafe fueling map.....and even then the richness/leaness of that map depends on your maf scaling and if the targets in there match your actual afr's.

I dont like to call people out...but from what you are telling us that your tuner is telling you...i'd find a different tuner. Or ask him to explain to you more thoroughly his reasoning behind not changing the timing on the first tune.

and if he is charging you for another tune to "fix" the timing, then it was obviously a scam to get more money from you.
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Old 11-20-2008, 10:28 PM   #12
scooby
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Well he won't charge me for another tune so he isn't trying to get some more money out of me. Maybe i should have pulled a little more meth out up top. He said he already had it scaled pretty lean up top to get it to 10.6 he didn't want to run the numbers any leaner in case the meth fails and it only runs that rich after 6500rpms otherwise it was around 11.5/11.7 . Does that sound right I just asked my brother what else my tuner mentioned.

I really don't want to get a new tuner I have a good relationship with my current. I would assume he knows how to tune subarus he is pretty reputable and dynoflash knows him well. In fact he was the tuner that originally tuned dynoflashes old bugeye/sti swap back before dynoflash started tuning himself.

If a can run some logs and post them maybe that would help see the problem if any.

Last edited by scooby; 11-20-2008 at 10:37 PM.
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Old 11-20-2008, 10:35 PM   #13
I<3subie
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You shouldnt be walking away wondering if your tuner did something or not.... lol

Good luck.. POOOP goes that poor STi
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Old 11-20-2008, 10:36 PM   #14
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Wait... Are you .. errr


ibetopistuningcarhimself
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Old 11-20-2008, 10:43 PM   #15
scooby
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I am not doubting my tuner I am just seeing if other people either had more mods or different tuning method for making the 400whp on greens. I am not that concerned about the actual numbers, I dont walk around with a dynosheet in my pocket.

I started this thread to see if I was missing a piece of the puzzle to getting that much power out of a green.
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Old 11-20-2008, 10:43 PM   #16
jbpsti
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenacious Bee View Post
What do you have to back up the ssac being a POS. There are lot's of people making good power with them. Maybe because it uses the same core as the turboxs ? A quick search will turn up a few. Now try and find where it held people back.

Anyhoo,See what it traps. I have pulled on people who's agile numbers were higher than my buschur dyno numbers . My wagon vs their sedans so there you go.
TurboXS and XSPower are two completely different things. TurboXS isn't ebay. SSAC is the best of the worst. I mean great for the price, but I don't like to crap out on parts.

Last edited by jbpsti; 11-20-2008 at 11:10 PM.
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Old 11-20-2008, 11:28 PM   #17
tux121
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Don't even worry about numbers! In minnesota we will never see a FP Green w/Pump Gas No Additives make 350whp. Dyno's down here are calibrated differently. Maybe unless we do another group tune paying Jorge to fly up here XD
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:25 AM   #18
crazymikie
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so your tuner didn't tune the car properly and you aren't making the power you expect. i think you have the answer there.



Quote:
Originally Posted by scooby View Post
I don't currently have dyno sheets in front of me cause my tuners printer wasn't working. But to keep it simple car makes peak power a little under 5000rpms right to redline holding 25psi down to 24psi at 6500 to 7000rpms. My tuner made no timing changes to the car he said it would do its own once I drive it around.

My mods are:
perrin big maf
perrin turbo inlet
fp green 2.4" 8cm
grimmspeed external w/38mm 18lb spring setup
ssac fmic
catless turbo back
gruppe-s unequal header
coolingmist
perrin modified injectors
walbro pump

93+100% alcohol 25psi
air/fuel was 11.5 then 10.6 towards redline.
best it made was 371hp 382 ft/lbs on dynojet uncorrected.
car feels strong and surprising holds boost great.
I notice alot of people are making this on 20-21psi and pump.
Any suggestions??
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:33 AM   #19
Tenacious Bee
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So, what to play
with next ?

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbpsti View Post
TurboXS and XSPower are two completely different things. TurboXS isn't ebay. SSAC is the best of the worst. I mean great for the price, but I don't like to crap out on parts.
I know that. Do some research.l Turboxs used to get their cores elsewhere. Now they get both the fmic's and tmic's from the same source as ssac. Check into it and you will find out that I am correct. The cores are identical.
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Old 11-21-2008, 01:13 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenacious Bee View Post
I know that. Do some research.l Turboxs used to get their cores elsewhere. Now they get both the fmic's and tmic's from the same source as ssac. Check into it and you will find out that I am correct. The cores are identical.
Oh well I compare a Turboxs tmic and ssac tmic, the ssac just looks like crap compared to it.
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Old 11-21-2008, 01:14 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooby View Post
His exact words were "He doesn't have to touch the timing, my car will adjust it on its own. It will advance until it feels slight knock then pull it back down a little. If I come back and redyno the numbers should be slightly higher."

As for the running rich towards redline, my car insist on adjusting it rich itself he was pulling fuel out but everytime it was back to around 10.6. We lowered the meth down 20 percent (varicool controller at 8 with 760cc nozzle) car ran better but still rich up top.

Its a dynojet. What do I need to log it and show you the logs?
For someone who is a supposed professional to "tune" in that manner is irresponsible at best and fraudulent at worst. Letting a car knock itself in the hands of the customer to a roughly correct timing curve is unfathomable to me. That is just plain lazy and with a higher powered setup on a stock block is a recipe for disaster. BTW, a good tune will easily net you the numbers you got on straight pump gas, with meth you should be at least 40whp higher than what you got.
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Old 11-21-2008, 01:44 AM   #22
Phatron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooby View Post
Its a dynojet. What do I need to log it and show you the logs?
dont how how i missed that. its a dynojet, then you are low on power.

trust socallgt...he tunes on one about an 1.5 hrs from me.

meth sucks for safety.....if you dont have flow meters and boost cuts with your kit....then look into getting a dds3 or some safety features added in so you can run leaner without worry. or just run a little richer the whole way on pump. seems weird to only richen it up at a certain rpm for safety reasons. so he thinks its ok to run 12:1 at 6400 rpm but not 6500 rpm?

and with regards to the logs...heres everything you need to know and download about the logging software

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1410201
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Old 11-21-2008, 08:45 AM   #23
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seems low i made 377/402 at 22psi without meth on 93
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Old 11-21-2008, 09:07 AM   #24
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I'd have to say your incorrect on this one, I've owned both of them (current gen tmics) and compared them side by side. The ssac is a nice budget tmic, but the internals of the intercooler are completely different, do some more research on that one. The turboxs unit stays cool to the touch after hard driving, versus the ssac. Ask some tuners what intercoolers are doing better not heatsoaking on the dyno, and you'll know the difference between the two.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenacious Bee View Post
I know that. Do some research.l Turboxs used to get their cores elsewhere. Now they get both the fmic's and tmic's from the same source as ssac. Check into it and you will find out that I am correct. The cores are identical.
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Old 11-21-2008, 09:21 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioutopia View Post
I'd have to say your incorrect on this one, I've owned both of them (current gen tmics) and compared them side by side. The ssac is a nice budget tmic, but the internals of the intercooler are completely different, do some more research on that one. The turboxs unit stays cool to the touch after hard driving, versus the ssac. Ask some tuners what intercoolers are doing better not heatsoaking on the dyno, and you'll know the difference between the two.

You do realize that the ssac has ss piping while the turboxs unit is aluminum. Right there is a big factor in the difference of the kit and heat soak.


As for the OP, I'd really get a second opinion on the car. All that money you dumped into your car and still drive on a questionable tune is negligent on your part. Knowing how these motors are so sensitive to mods/tuning you owe yourself that much and get another opinion.
Any doubt in your mind is not good. You should feel total 100% confidence in your tuner when you leave the facility and not have to start this type of post.



In my past experience a referral by dynoflash means nothing. I'll leave it at that.
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