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Old 01-26-2009, 03:24 PM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default Will a car's radar system set off a radar detector?



Quote:
We occasionally run across online postings and get questions about whether new radar-based cruise control and collision prevention systems being rolled out in new cars will set off radar detectors. Car radar systems work just like police radar guns, sending out a radio signal and detecting how that signal gets bounced back.


Both radar systems use Doppler shift to figure out the speed of the vehicles in the path of the radio signal. Car radar systems use the data to match your speed to the car in front, while the police radar can get you a ticket. Because of this similarity, many people assume a radar detector, designed to let you know when you are under radar surveillance, will get a false positive from a car's radar system.




The CL550 follows the Mazda6 down the freeway.
(Credit: CBS Interactive)


To settle this question, we took two cars out on the road, a Mercedes-Benz CL550 with the Distronic Plus adaptive cruise control system, and a Mazda6 with a Beltronics Pro RX65 radar detector. Our radar detector sounds a warning when it receives both X and K band signals, the latter being the most widely used by police. The CL550 has a millimeter wave radar system that detects the speed of the car in front of it.



On our way out to run this test, we got proof that the radar detector was working properly, as it alerted us to a K-band signal. Once we got on the freeway, the driver of the Mazda6 got his speed up to 65 mph, and the CL550 driver set the adaptive cruise control to 81 mph. The CL550 matched speeds with the Mazda6 using its built-in radar. Over about 5 miles of driving, the radar detector remained silent, showing that adaptive cruise control won't set off a radar detector.




The CL550's cruise control is set to 81 mph.
(Credit: CBS Interactive)
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7...TheCarTechblog
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Old 01-26-2009, 03:34 PM   #2
shikataganai
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infiniti FXs and GMC Envoys (odd pair, i know) set off laser detectors, tho...
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Old 01-26-2009, 03:40 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
infiniti FXs and GMC Envoys (odd pair, i know) set off laser detectors, tho...
+1, all NEW Infinitis light up my Passport, sucks when they're behind you on a long country road.
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Old 01-27-2009, 08:54 AM   #4
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^ shikatagani and SubaDuba420, indeed, in terms of LIDAR detection, there's quite a lot of stuff that can cause problems:

http://www.radardetector.net/forums/...er-alerts.html
http://www.radardetector.net/forums/...er-alerts.html

But that's another story - that's LASER, not RADAR.

Even so, that C-Net article is far from complete.

Although those specific cruise-control/safety systems will not interfere, there are those - also based on RADAR - which can.

http://veilguy.blogspot.com/search?q=audi
http://www.radardetector.net/forums/...or-owners.html
http://www.radardetector.net/forums/...xmas-tree.html

To me, it doesn't seem that they've done their homework, particularly as they're doing a big tech-story.

I also don't think that the particular C-Net author(s) of the above article has ever been exposed to the mystery Ka-band falsing issues seen on some newer BMWs:

http://www.radardetector.net/forums/...ka-alarms.html

http://www.radardetector.net/forums/...wont-work.html

As a speed-detection countermeasures enthusiast, I find the C-Net article above rather lacking in critical details, and think that it proves more of a dis-service to its readers.
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Old 01-27-2009, 01:11 PM   #5
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^^ you should post on their site(blog area).I bet they would like to hear from you.I know some of my buddies say they have trouble with false alarms.That's what caught my attention on that article.
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Old 01-27-2009, 02:18 PM   #6
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^ I'm not sure that they'll listen. The non-speed-detection-countermeasures-enthusiast world, as we hobbyists are all too well aware, are often blissful in their ignorance, and will put up a fight to hang on to their misconceptions.

Try telling a guy you meet at the local drive-thru or gas-station that his $80 Cobra is just a lead-weight or that his K40 or RMR isn't really jamming anything, and you can expect near fisticuffs.

Besides, it seems that the two who have commented there, already are off to a logical start.

I've also cross-posted your linked article to the RD.net hobbyist/enthusiast community. Hopefully, that'll spur more debate there, too.

---

AVANTI R5, what problems are occurring, for your friend? what kind of detector? vehicle?
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Old 01-27-2009, 08:05 PM   #7
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thanks for posting it there WRX.

They tested a laser cruise control system, right? I'm pretty sure that the RX65 will pick up at least some laser, but it really is just for radar. (I could be totally wrong and it may not detect laser at all).

I'm kind of curious to know the PPS of the cruise control now
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Old 01-28-2009, 08:18 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nategr8ns View Post
thanks for posting it there WRX.


Quote:
They tested a laser cruise control system, right? I'm pretty sure that the RX65 will pick up at least some laser, but it really is just for radar. (I could be totally wrong and it may not detect laser at all).

I'm kind of curious to know the PPS of the cruise control now
Negative - they (C-Net, in the above article cited by the OP, AVANTI R5) tested RADAR-based systems.

And yes, typically, current-generation laser-based vehicle active/passive-safety as well as cruise-control systems will also trigger our detectors' laser alert and can trigger either both error-notes (i.e. LPP, AL) or falses (i.e. LI, ZR3/4, various detectors).

Based on the particular vehicle's laser-based system as well as the particular laser jammer/detector, the error/falsing can present in many different ways.

So far, no known "interaction" has been known to happen on the other side of the equation - i.e. that none of our active laser jammers would somehow trigger these vehicles' active/passive safety systems or cruise-control systems to do something untoward or otherwise jeopardize any motorist. IIRC, the LPP and LI were tested for this, at one of the past CFL events.
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Old 01-28-2009, 08:21 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVANTI R5 View Post
^^ you should post on their site(blog area).I bet they would like to hear from you.
Looks like my good brothers lucky and MEM-TEK, both enthusiasts/long-timers on RadarDetector.net , have taken up the clarion-call, and are putting forward their knowledge, via the article's "Comments" section, to do battle to help keep the consumer PROPERLY informed!
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Old 01-28-2009, 01:56 PM   #10
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I know little to nothing about RD and jammers and the equipment used by the police, but I wonder if any of these devices (radar or laser based CC or active and passive safety) could jam the speed detection equipment that police and ticket cameras use? Or if they can be modified to jam Police and ticket cameras? Can this equipment be used as a plausible excuse when arguing with a police officer or a judge in court. Can this excuse be used to mask an actual radar/laser jammer installed in your car?
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Old 01-28-2009, 02:17 PM   #11
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^ Active RADAR jamming is illegal - federal offense. Just don't do it.

Passive RADAR jamming simply doesn't work. Period.

-----

As for LASER (LIDAR), currently, there's no LIDAR-based speed-camera/red-light camera type device in-use, here, Stateside.

In Europe, yes, there are such automated or manned laser-based devices - typically used for issuing speeding citations - and yes, certain of today's top-flight active laser jammers do work to effectively shield the target vehicle from such enforcement.

Stateside again, ENRADD can be, IIRC, IR (LASER) based, but is a point-to-point timing technology/enforcement tool, where the laser beam acts as a "tripwire," much like the timing traps of a dragstrip. In their current setup, it is virtually impossible for modern active laser jammers (yes, there are many good ones, ones that actually do work) available to defeat such a "tripwire" setup. Even if you set up a "bank" of laser jammer heads (think of each bank, on each side of the vehicle, duplicating an aero/cosmetic "side skirt"), no current jammer's algorithms are set up for effective jamming in such a manner, and, as a result, you will not be protected.

Passive laser-profile reduction techniques, based again on how IR-mediated (I keep citing this because I am not intimately familiar with ENRADD technology, and I seem to remember reading somewhere that it can be triggered via induction-loops as well - my sincere apologies for my ignorance on this matter!) ENRADD is set up, will simply do no good.

In terms of how such active/passive vehicle-safety devices - both RADAR and LASER based - may affect the police enforcement device?

To the best of my knowledge, this has not been conclusively tested by the speed-detection hobbyist/enthusiast crowd.

As for whether or not such devices could legitimately function as a "cover" for jammer devices installed on your vehicle?

That, IMveryHO, is a certainty.

Regardless of their effect on police enforcement equipment, the physics of the situation is still the same. A LASER-based active cruise system, safety system, or parking-aid will put out either a steady stream or pulses of IR-light energy, and yes, this will appear similar-to/same-as the output from an active police LIDAR jammer.

Indeed, for the past several years, a handful of active LIDAR jammer makers do market their devices as "parking aids," which, indeed, they can fulfill that secondary function, based simply on their optical/physical design.
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