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Old 01-26-2009, 03:26 PM   #1
subeman90
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Default Brakes: what would you buy? RSB too?

I want to make my Baja stop a little better. I know it isn't the best in the corners but I took it to the Dragon with some friends last summer and I had no problem keeping up (even with the potenza's on) but one issue i did have was that I ran out of brakes quick! I need more brakes!

Any suggestions? My only criteria is that it MUST fit under the stock wheels and not be horribly expensive (above $600 no way!) Also, I don't want it turning my silver wheels black from the brake dust.

Please don't say fluid either...that is already going to happen when the "work" begins. (I did have new fluid at the time anyhow)

2006 baja turboless 5 speed.

I'm thinking about a rear sway bar too....anyone know where i can get a good one? if you have one tell me about it.
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Old 01-26-2009, 03:57 PM   #2
Hawk296
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So no dust AND stop better...yikes

With the 16x6.5" wheels you are limited. A higher quality rotor and more aggressive pad are probably your best choice. However, the more aggressive pads will dust more.

There are a few aftermarket brake kits that will fit under the stock wheel but they are pricey. Most of the other kits will require a wider wheel or a larger 17" wheel.

You already have WRX sized rotors in front and the "H6" rears which is what many WRX owners upgrade to. These Bajas are just really heavy.
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Old 01-26-2009, 04:39 PM   #3
subeman90
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I guess i should state that I understand that they will dust I just don't want the things being black the day after I wash the cruck. If I'm letting it all hang out then I deserve it.

So let me get this straight...if it is on ebay for instance and it is for a WRX then I can buy it for the baja. Right?
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Old 01-26-2009, 04:58 PM   #4
Benhart21
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Yes, the front pads are the same as the 02-05 WRX brakes, and the rotor is the same through 07. I'm using Cryostop rotors up front with Hawk HPS pads all around and have been happy with them so far. After almost 6 months, the front rotors are showing absolutely no signs of wear.
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Old 01-26-2009, 08:37 PM   #5
Subie_Sleeper68
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Talking

http://brakeperformance.com/site/ind...78e3368f821093
If you are looking for the best stopping performance/bang-for-your-buck this is the place. I have the premium slotted/dimpled on my baja right now. I use the motul blue fluid and a stainless brake line kit from an 04 outback. the hardware for the rear lines needed tweaking and the fronts are fine. THERE WILL BE DUST. TONS OF IT!!!!! I have black Ultraleggereas for a reason. LOL. Besides the dusting they have been FANTASTIC. I used the free pads to break in the rotors and use EBC redstuff on the front and greenstuff on the back. I did manage to warp the fronts. It was driver insanity. I was way in excess of 100. I know it was wrong and will never do it again. I had to know where it topped out at since the tune and top end limiter removal. (143) it was still pulling but I realized the stupidity of my action and got on the brakes wayyy too hard. they warped almost instantly. A few seconds of hard pressure = 143 to 80 and the wheel trying to jump out of my hands. I repeat... NEVER again. I had a friend turn the fronts since for the most part they were brand new. Since then I've flipped pads once on the rear and twice up front. No warping issues since the turn down. I plan to put either a K-Sport or Rorora BBK on in spring. It's just for love of modding though. I know she'll brake a hell of a lot better. However I haven't had any fade issues on the cruises we do in the poconos with my current setup. Sorry for writing a book here. LOL I think that they will be more than enough to meet your needs. Both budget and performance as long as you can deal with copius amounts of dust.
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Old 01-26-2009, 09:04 PM   #6
Hawk296
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I am totally getting these for my baja!



thanks for the link!
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Old 01-27-2009, 01:59 AM   #7
Benhart21
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Slight thread-jack here:

Sleeper - What mods did you have to do to the SS brake lines to get them to work? It's next on my list of things to do.
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Old 01-27-2009, 09:20 AM   #8
deadlydave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subie_Sleeper68 View Post
If you are looking for the best stopping performance/bang-for-your-buck this is the place. I have the premium slotted/dimpled on my baja right now. I use the motul blue fluid and a stainless brake line kit from an 04 outback. ... I used the free pads to break in the rotors and use EBC redstuff on the front and greenstuff on the back. I did manage to warp the fronts. It was driver insanity. I was way in excess of 100....
Why did you go with slotted/dimpled over blanks? (if you don't mind my asking.)

Why did you put less aggressive pads on the back? Shouldn't that promote understeer?

Back on topic: I went with the subaru red 4-pots on the front, they'll fit under 16's so you can re-use your current tires, but you'll need 5mm spacers for the front(not reccomended) or new wheels(Any 98-01 2.5rs wheels will work). Front pads are Hawk HPS, rears will be Hawk HP+ (on order, for H6 calipers), to give me a more favorable brake balance. I use wal-mart DOT4 fluid and flush it 2-3 times per year. All 4 rotors are OEM blanks.

My Turbo is autocrossed a dozen or more times per year. I took out the back seat and wieghed it, it was 80 pounds, so you might wanna take that out before doing fun runs on the backroads.
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Old 01-27-2009, 07:26 PM   #9
subeman90
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Dave: So what you are saying is that basically if my rotors are fine go with them and but buy better brake pads? I was thinking of better rotors too but you think OEM is good enough. I had those things HOT at the Dragon but they never did warp (I had crazy fade issues but no warps)
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Old 01-28-2009, 02:06 AM   #10
Benhart21
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Technically tires will be the single biggest improvement in braking overall, then pads.
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Old 01-28-2009, 09:34 AM   #11
deadlydave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subeman90 View Post
Dave: So what you are saying is that basically if my rotors are fine go with them and but buy better brake pads? I was thinking of better rotors too but you think OEM is good enough. I had those things HOT at the Dragon but they never did warp (I had crazy fade issues but no warps)
Well, there are better rotors out there, I just wouldn't use slotted/drilled because they chew up pads and are 'potentially' more prone to failure(ie. cracking instead of warping). A few companies have 'blank' rotors with an innovative fin design for our fronts that supposedly moves air through at a much better rate. Also, some front brake ducting from the foglight area could never hurt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benhart21 View Post
Technically tires will be the single biggest improvement in braking overall, then pads.
A giant +1 on this one. Tires pay huge divadends. However, the grippier your tires and the more buttoned-down your suspension is, the more heat your brakes are going to get.

From the limited amount I know about the dragon, that kind of cornering over that kind of distance....Our biggest problem is weight. If that's the kind of driving you're doing, you may want to look into a big brake kit, or at least the 05+LGT or 06-07WRX rear brake conversion(big vented rotor), and a larger front brake setup from the 05+LGT, 4-pots with really good pads(porterfields or hawk HP+, EBC Redstuff), or Brembos. When I autocross, I flog the car for only 30-90 seconds at a time, then it gets a rest. For extended abuse with such a heavy vehicle, it doesn't seem like most of subaru's stock systems will cut the mustard. And your stock tires definitely won't.

So, it's going to boil down to a choice, ditch the 16's and go balls-deep on a some nice big brakes from an LGT, STi, or aftermarket. Or, upgrade stock or near-stock system with better front rotor, cooling ducts, and more aggressive pads.

*gasp* *wheez* Whew!
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Old 01-28-2009, 09:35 AM   #12
Hawk296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benhart21 View Post
Technically tires will be the single biggest improvement in braking overall, then pads.
typically true, but with stock pads I could just about stand on the brakes and it would barely get into ABS. If he wants to keep stock tires, upgraded pads will definatly reduce fade, increase pedal feel, and overall friction. Then when he changes tires, he can stop even harder before approaching lock up.
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Old 01-28-2009, 01:18 PM   #13
subeman90
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Thanks for all the replies. I guess i am at a cross road here. it isn't the matter of bigger wheels but also another issue is going to be where the heck do i find those bigger components. new is not in the budget.

Tires: I hate to admit it but i am too cheap to just toss them. They have 38k on them and I got to tell you they really don't look half bad. This will be my last winter with them unless i don't drive the baja much over the summer.

one thing i want to say...when i was at the Dragon i was running with SVX's and xt's (xt coupes not the new stuff) and the SVX is horribly heavy but it can do the dragon much easier then i can. i really am not sure why cause i don't think the components are any bigger. One thing I do know is that they don't interchange since it is a 5x114 pattern. One thing that makes me proud of the baja is that the SVX wouldn't shake it at the Dragon...out brake it yes but in the curves i was on their bumper or could have passed.

I'm at a cross road with the baja: I'm out of warranty so I can do more to it and it is fully paid for too. i have been thinking of getting an SVX just cause I love them but if I don't then this project will move forward. If I get an SVX then this thing is going another direction...aggressive off road tires. and some other goodies.
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Old 01-28-2009, 03:14 PM   #14
deadlydave
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There's a lot more aftermarket support for the Baja(WRX engine, trans, Forester rear diff, legacy-ish suspension, WRX + legacy brakes). If you're gonna go cheap, brakes and tires are not the place to do it. The E-brake on the baja will not stop 3600 pounds moving 50mph.

Niether car is really a track monster. SVX is undeniably cool and good looking, but is getting long in the tooth. A few of the years had rear wheel bearing failure issues, all but modded SVX's are 4eat. I went baja over wrx or legacy wagon because I love to 'embrace the wierd'.

I forgot to mention: rear sway bar upgrade--I'd do it, I am doing it actually.
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Old 01-28-2009, 03:28 PM   #15
Subie_Sleeper68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benhart21 View Post
Slight thread-jack here:

Sleeper - What mods did you have to do to the SS brake lines to get them to work? It's next on my list of things to do.
minor MINOR bend on the mounting bracket so the line didn't rub. Sooo easy to spot when you line everything up. Three seconds each with needle nose vise-grips
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Old 01-28-2009, 04:14 PM   #16
Subie_Sleeper68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadlydave View Post
Why did you go with slotted/dimpled over blanks? (if you don't mind my asking.)

Why did you put less aggressive pads on the back? Shouldn't that promote understeer?

Back on topic: I went with the subaru red 4-pots on the front, they'll fit under 16's so you can re-use your current tires, but you'll need 5mm spacers for the front(not reccomended) or new wheels(Any 98-01 2.5rs wheels will work). Front pads are Hawk HPS, rears will be Hawk HP+ (on order, for H6 calipers), to give me a more favorable brake balance. I use wal-mart DOT4 fluid and flush it 2-3 times per year. All 4 rotors are OEM blanks.

My Turbo is autocrossed a dozen or more times per year. I took out the back seat and wieghed it, it was 80 pounds, so you might wanna take that out before doing fun runs on the backroads.
Less agressive on the rear because I was managing to trip the abs in the rear when braking hard on runs in the poconos. Everyone thought I was nuts but I feel that due to my driving style switching to a less agressive pad in the rear would work. It seemed to cure it. I may have just changed habits and it's just psychosemantic too. LOL As for the rotors, the manufacturer gaurantees no warping and they were CHEAP. I burn through pads a little quicker but I don't mind.
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Old 01-28-2009, 05:13 PM   #17
weiVA
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I have the Whiteline front and rear sways on. It's worth it and allows the Baja to feel planted while making tighter turns than I ever thought possible in this cruck. It's been alleged that the fronts are the same diameter as stock -- perhaps its different metallurgic makeup.
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