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Old 01-30-2009, 10:39 AM   #1
Cbgrandtheftauto
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Default ej20k injectors

hey guys,

I have a Ej20k with stock injectors...well they look stock....but anyways what is the cc rating on them they are grayish looking on the top...I have a usdm STi vf39 turbo and was wanting to upgrade and I dont know what to do until I figure out what injectors i have and If they will work with my next turbo choice....thanks
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Old 01-30-2009, 03:48 PM   #2
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440cc most likely
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Old 01-30-2009, 03:48 PM   #3
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should be yellow 480cc @3 bar
the vf-22 or vf-23 you already have is significantly larger than the vf-39

Last edited by Jaxx; 02-01-2009 at 12:38 PM. Reason: edit - yay for reading comprhension
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Old 01-31-2009, 12:27 AM   #4
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thanks guys...when I got the engine somebody put a TD-04L on it and it was hitting max boost quick and sucked on mid and top end...so the cheapest one i came across was a p&p vf39...but i was thinking of going bigger...which is the biggest turbo i can go to with those injectors??...Im looking for one that has kick ass bottom end decent mid and a great top end and ill run 1.25bar/18psi 3/4 of the time I am also wondering the max boost i can put to that engine before things go POP!...so when I get my other turbo I can work on making another map for more boost

Last edited by Cbgrandtheftauto; 01-31-2009 at 12:35 AM.
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Old 01-31-2009, 07:08 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cbgrandtheftauto View Post
thanks guys...when I got the engine somebody put a TD-04L on it and it was hitting max boost quick and sucked on mid and top end...so the cheapest one i came across was a p&p vf39...but i was thinking of going bigger...which is the biggest turbo i can go to with those injectors??...Im looking for one that has kick ass bottom end decent mid and a great top end and ill run 1.25bar/18psi 3/4 of the time I am also wondering the max boost i can put to that engine before things go POP!...so when I get my other turbo I can work on making another map for more boost
your injectors do not support your goals.... I would not suggest over 16psi on those gray tops... Your current injector set is good with that turbo up to about 16psi providing you have a good fuel pump.
keep in mind that you will still be faster than a usdm wrx at 18psi while at 16 in your car because of the weight difference..... actually will be putting out the power of an sti in a much lighter body.
If 18psi is your magic number... you will need a little more fuel to do it safely.

Last edited by blkgm8; 01-31-2009 at 10:36 PM.
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Old 01-31-2009, 10:28 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by blkgm8 View Post
your injectors do not support your goals.... I would not suggest over 16psi on those gray tops... Your current turbo is good with that turbo up to about 16psi providing you have a good fuel pump.
keep in mind that you will still be faster than a usdm wrx at 18psi while at 16 in your car because of the weight difference..... actually will be putting out the power of an sti in a much lighter body.
If 18psi is your magic number... you will need a little more fuel to do it safely.
I think I'm going back to my 16psi map for awile..because I'm not getting good gas milage...but I like the acceleration at 18psi ...I think I will go with a vf22 with a bigger tmic and change my injectors and get a walbro before I go back up to 18psi
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Old 01-31-2009, 10:41 PM   #7
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Find yourself some yellow top sti injectors and you will be okay at 18...

An even better choice is the newage sti 550 sidefeeds, and the deatchworks or carl davey fuel rail adapters.
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Old 02-01-2009, 09:59 AM   #8
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except they won't fit in k rails ... which are different than the g rails

the thing that is missing above is that you will need EM for ANY of these changes

probably a power fc +datalogit
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Old 02-01-2009, 11:13 AM   #9
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I've never seen an Ej20K with grey injectors. You mention that this car had a TD04 on it when you bought. Are you sure that what you have there isn't a 1997-1998 Ej20G from a wagon?
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Old 02-01-2009, 02:48 PM   #10
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Good catch Matt... He may indeed have one of those transition wagon motors that were actually classified as v3, but does feature the ej20g with td04...

In any case... I have a proper td05 16g if you really want to wake that thing up... as well as the proper z4 ecu.

..Will still suggest larger injectors for you though as it seems you like boost
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Old 02-01-2009, 05:20 PM   #11
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Z4 is for the COP Ej20G's. This car is going to be wasted spark and a 3 plug ECU. Not very easily converted to the 4 plug z4 configuration.
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Old 02-01-2009, 07:22 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
I've never seen an Ej20K with grey injectors. You mention that this car had a TD04 on it when you bought. Are you sure that what you have there isn't a 1997-1998 Ej20G from a wagon?
Nope it's a K. It has the coilpack on the center of the intake and behind the alternator imprinted on the block it says Ej20k...the injectors are gray but look a primer gray...is there any way to tell on the injector??? I'll take a few pics to post to show you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blkgm8 View Post
Good catch Matt... He may indeed have one of those transition wagon motors that were actually classified as v3, but does feature the ej20g with td04...

In any case... I have a proper td05 16g if you really want to wake that thing up... as well as the proper z4 ecu.


..Will still suggest larger injectors for you though as it seems you like boost
Well I might take that td-05 off your hands...is it all around better than a vf-39???...I don't need the ecu...I already have the PFC and tune it with datalogit ...I had a profesional show me the missing pecies that I didn't understand about tuning it...I'm a pro at tuning now
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Old 02-01-2009, 07:34 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Cbgrandtheftauto View Post
Nope it's a K. It has the coilpack on the center of the intake and behind the alternator imprinted on the block it says Ej20k...the injectors are gray but look a primer gray...is there any way to tell on the injector??? I'll take a few pics to post to show you.



Well I might take that td-05 off your hands...is it all around better than a vf-39???...I don't need the ecu...I already have the PFC and tune it with datalogit ...I had a profesional show me the missing pecies that I didn't understand about tuning it...I'm a pro at tuning now
The 16g will outperform any vf series turbo... and be spot in its efficiency range at your stated boost target. You will have permanent grin on your face with that turbo and some 550's at 18psi
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Old 02-01-2009, 07:47 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cbgrandtheftauto View Post
behind the alternator imprinted on the block it says Ej20k.D
You wanna bet that it doesn't? I'll bet you $5. Hell, I am so sure that your block isn't stamped with "Ej20K" that I'll bet you $5000. Your block is stamped "Ej20" like everyone else's is.

The coilpack doesn't proove it's a K either. Read my remarks above.

Pull your carpet and get us the 2 digit ECU code. That will tell us for sure.
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Old 02-02-2009, 11:44 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
I've never seen an Ej20K with grey injectors. You mention that this car had a TD04 on it when you bought. Are you sure that what you have there isn't a 1997-1998 Ej20G from a wagon?
My Version III EJ20K came with a VF23 and grey 440 cc injectors from a Type R with a 6S ECU. I am now running a 16G with new age 550 injectors with the Carl Davey adapters and a Hydra. Works great.
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Old 02-02-2009, 05:44 PM   #16
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My Version III EJ20K came with a VF23 and grey 440 cc injectors from a Type R with a 6S ECU. I am now running a 16G with new age 550 injectors with the Carl Davey adapters and a Hydra. Works great.
Interesting. I've had two 1997 Ej20K's through my garage in the last year and I just reviewed my file photos to be sure I was remembering correctly. They both had yellow injectors. One was from a 5MT sedan and the other was a v3 STi. One with an IS ECU and the other with a 6S.
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Old 02-03-2009, 01:16 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by blkgm8 View Post
The 16g will outperform any vf series turbo... and be spot in its efficiency range at your stated boost target. You will have permanent grin on your face with that turbo and some 550's at 18psi
Good!!!..I'm not sure what newage injectors are but I found some 550's from a 06 sti..will those work??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
You wanna bet that it doesn't? I'll bet you $5. Hell, I am so sure that your block isn't stamped with "Ej20K" that I'll bet you $5000. Your block is stamped "Ej20" like everyone else's is.

The coilpack doesn't proove it's a K either. Read my remarks above.

Pull your carpet and get us the 2 digit ECU code. That will tell us for sure.
Ok will do tomarrow...I think ur right but I thought it had the K at the end of it but I'll check that too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by linsavy View Post
My Version III EJ20K came with a VF23 and grey 440 cc injectors from a Type R with a 6S ECU. I am now running a 16G with new age 550 injectors with the Carl Davey adapters and a Hydra. Works great.
Good somebody else that had gray tops... I was starting to worry that I had a franken K engine...lol... Are the Carl Davey adapters really needed to run new age 550's??
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Old 02-03-2009, 05:58 PM   #18
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Default 650 cc STi injectors in ej20k rails, manifold

You will need an adapter to use the "new age" side feed injectors. I am going to be using these Deatschwerks 650cc injectors with their Phase 2Adapter Kit, and EJ20K manifold with fuel rails. Here is a pic of one.
For DW injectors color does not necessarily indicate flow rate.This set is 642cc/min avg.

Adapter installed

Last edited by kleinkid; 02-03-2009 at 09:42 PM.
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Old 02-03-2009, 08:13 PM   #19
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Heres a pic of my engine...The I/C is about shot...thats on my things to do list



And Matt I guess you were right...



The Apexi unit...





And here is another proof its a EJ20K...





I also forgot a pic of the injectors...that will be tomarrow
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Old 02-03-2009, 08:52 PM   #20
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Maybe you aren't getting something here. The Ej20G that we are talking about was a concurrent model with the EJ20K. ITLOOKS EXACTLY THE SAME IN THE ENGINE BAY!!!!! It would use the exact same Apexi whether or not it was an Ej20G or an EJ20K. Apexi calls their 1997&1998 PFC the "EJ20K" version

If your car were actually an Ej20K engine it would have a VF series turbo on it. Why would someone downgrade the car to a TD04? Sure, the turbo could have blown, but then you would think they'd get an equivalent turbo for the car like a Vf34 of VF39.

In short, you have told us nothing and shown us nothing that prooves that your car has an Ej20K in it. But in all honesty, I don't really know why you are stuck on that. The differences between the two engines are pretty minor and the biggest difference is the turbo (which you don't have) and the tune (which you have covered with the PFC).

But if you really want to know, get me the tranny code like I asked earlier. If someone swapped an Ej20K in there, there's a really good chance they put in the very desireable 4.44FD tranny at the same time.

Oh, and one last thing. Every Ej20K I have ever seen had a black intercooler unless it was an STI. Silver intercoolers might be an Ej20G thing.

Last edited by Matt Monson; 02-03-2009 at 09:03 PM.
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Old 02-03-2009, 09:22 PM   #21
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I honestly dont see anything in that engine shot that says ej20g. Would his car just have the block from the g and the k everyting else based on the model year?... The tdo4 would also have a 45 degree inlet if it were a v2 turbo.
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:02 PM   #22
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I honestly dont see anything in that engine shot that says ej20g. Would his car just have the block from the g and the k everyting else based on the model year?... The tdo4 would also have a 45 degree inlet if it were a v2 turbo.
You people aren't getting it. There is a GF8 engine in 1997 and 1998 tagged as the Ej20G. it's not an early engine. It's got under inlet manifold. It's got waster spark. It doesn't look like a 1993-1996 Ej20G. It looks EXACTLY like an Ej20K!!!
This thread explains more:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ght=ej20G+1997
Furthermore read this copy of the old Mike Shields article (which mistakenly has the cut off date for closed deck later than it really is and where most of the misinformation about that came from):
http://legacycentral.org/library/lit...mike_turbo.htm
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Old 02-04-2009, 09:23 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
Maybe you aren't getting something here. The Ej20G that we are talking about was a concurrent model with the EJ20K. ITLOOKS EXACTLY THE SAME IN THE ENGINE BAY!!!!! It would use the exact same Apexi whether or not it was an Ej20G or an EJ20K. Apexi calls their 1997&1998 PFC the "EJ20K" version

If your car were actually an Ej20K engine it would have a VF series turbo on it. Why would someone downgrade the car to a TD04? Sure, the turbo could have blown, but then you would think they'd get an equivalent turbo for the car like a Vf34 of VF39.

In short, you have told us nothing and shown us nothing that prooves that your car has an Ej20K in it. But in all honesty, I don't really know why you are stuck on that. The differences between the two engines are pretty minor and the biggest difference is the turbo (which you don't have) and the tune (which you have covered with the PFC).

But if you really want to know, get me the tranny code like I asked earlier. If someone swapped an Ej20K in there, there's a really good chance they put in the very desireable 4.44FD tranny at the same time.

Oh, and one last thing. Every Ej20K I have ever seen had a black intercooler unless it was an STI. Silver intercoolers might be an Ej20G thing.
Well you won't find anything out with the transmission either...it still has the orgional 2.5rs transmission...the only real proof is that the other day when I dynod it it had 328awhp...is there a number on the block that would say if it was a k or g???...I just thought about it...what about the td-04...should that have a number on it to show what engine it came off of??...I do remember it said on it TD-04L...I have a picture of where I sold it on ebay...no way of getting it back...it's in Ireland now

Last edited by Cbgrandtheftauto; 02-04-2009 at 09:46 AM.
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Old 02-04-2009, 09:26 AM   #24
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Well you won't find anything out with the transmission either...it still has the orgional 2.5rs transmission...the only real proof is that the other day when I dynod it it had 328awhp...is there a number on the block that would say if it was a k or g???
There's a sticker on the timing cover and there's another one on the backside of the left side head. They contain the complete 10 digit applied engine code. However they are rarely intact by the time they get to the states.

The dyno number means about as much as the installation of the Apexi. A USDM Ej205 could put down that number, just like an Ej20G could or an Ej20K could. What allows that is the vf39 you have installed on it. You seem to think the Ej20K is some magic longblock. It's not.
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Old 02-04-2009, 09:37 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cbgrandtheftauto View Post
other day when I dynoed it it had 328awhp...

wait what ??

no way, not possible

328whp is not posible with
A: grey tops
B: tdo4 or tdo5 or maybe even a vf-22 (certainly not a vf-39)

with grey tops i would wager 175 whp but not much more
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