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Old 10-31-2013, 01:24 PM   #11326
purple_duckk
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I really appreciate you guys taking the time to think about my plan and share such good info on your experiences. You have given me a lot to think about and some good info that is hard to get just from reading boards. I'll be buying some beers at the next meet up, thats for sure.

So it sounds like the DW1000's aren't the right injectors. I only picked them because they actually flowed 1000 where the ID1000s flowed closer to 900. And a little more intense of a fuel pump is in order.

Sounds like a catch can over an AOS

That leaves E85 and rotated vs stock location.
I wanted to build for 350 on 93 for the simple fact that, by my estimate, the closer you start getting to 400 WHP the much more likely the motor is going to go all Fat Man and Little Boy in the middle of a drive. And really thats a lot of power for street driving anyway. the reason I'm not looking for 350 on E85 is my girl might be getting transferred down to Panama City Beach in the near future and their are no stations with E85 within an hour's drive. The Alt fuel depot on Tyndal Air Force Base isn't built yet and there is no ETA for it, though when it does go live it will be open to the public. So I don't want to build a car for a fuel I might not be able to find. My understanding is that the EJ257 in the LGT makes about 10% less than the EJ255 in the STi due to flow characteristics of the heads and cams.

So since, the supporting gear is going to be pretty much the same, the only difference is the turbo itself and the plumbing. The Dom 2.5 XTR will be about $2k fitted up. A rotated kit will be be roughly $1000-$1500 more. granted I only breifly looked at prices so the delta might be way off.
My question then is, if both setups get us to the same end result, what do I get for the extra money? I know going rotated will give me smoother power delivery and a lower boost threshold, but what kinds of differences are we talking?
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Old 10-31-2013, 02:28 PM   #11327
Travisty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purple_duckk View Post
I really appreciate you guys taking the time to think about my plan and share such good info on your experiences. You have given me a lot to think about and some good info that is hard to get just from reading boards. I'll be buying some beers at the next meet up, thats for sure.

So it sounds like the DW1000's aren't the right injectors. I only picked them because they actually flowed 1000 where the ID1000s flowed closer to 900. And a little more intense of a fuel pump is in order.

Sounds like a catch can over an AOS

That leaves E85 and rotated vs stock location.
I wanted to build for 350 on 93 for the simple fact that, by my estimate, the closer you start getting to 400 WHP the much more likely the motor is going to go all Fat Man and Little Boy in the middle of a drive. And really thats a lot of power for street driving anyway. the reason I'm not looking for 350 on E85 is my girl might be getting transferred down to Panama City Beach in the near future and their are no stations with E85 within an hour's drive. The Alt fuel depot on Tyndal Air Force Base isn't built yet and there is no ETA for it, though when it does go live it will be open to the public. So I don't want to build a car for a fuel I might not be able to find. My understanding is that the EJ257 in the LGT makes about 10% less than the EJ255 in the STi due to flow characteristics of the heads and cams.

So since, the supporting gear is going to be pretty much the same, the only difference is the turbo itself and the plumbing. The Dom 2.5 XTR will be about $2k fitted up. A rotated kit will be be roughly $1000-$1500 more. granted I only breifly looked at prices so the delta might be way off.
My question then is, if both setups get us to the same end result, what do I get for the extra money? I know going rotated will give me smoother power delivery and a lower boost threshold, but what kinds of differences are we talking?
STi is a EJ257, and standard LGT's are 255's. I'm unsure what your Spec B has.

ID1K injectors are basically the go-to injector for tuner platforms. They're easy to scale, latencies are on point, and they idle at or close to stock.

Honestly, if you know you'll be happy with 350 and never want more, I'd just do a stock location 20g. I think the 1.5XT-R is in that size range too? A good top mount (GrimmSpeed, Process West), boost controller, injectors, 20g, and I really do suggest a EWG, and that'd be an easy 350whp car. Simple and relatively cheap.

If you stick with your Cobb, have Jr at P&L give you a Speed Density tune. The way that type of tune drives compared to a MAF load based tune is night and day. You should also have a e85 map done, so when you're home, or really feel like putting a hurting on that Camaro, just swap fuel/maps and go have fun. Doing a road trip? Swap to your 93 tune and don't think twice about it.
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Old 10-31-2013, 03:11 PM   #11328
Shortpersonbk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travisty View Post
STi is a EJ257, and standard LGT's are 255's. I'm unsure what your Spec B has.

ID1K injectors are basically the go-to injector for tuner platforms. They're easy to scale, latencies are on point, and they idle at or close to stock.

Honestly, if you know you'll be happy with 350 and never want more, I'd just do a stock location 20g. I think the 1.5XT-R is in that size range too? A good top mount (GrimmSpeed, Process West), boost controller, injectors, 20g, and I really do suggest a EWG, and that'd be an easy 350whp car. Simple and relatively cheap.

If you stick with your Cobb, have Jr at P&L give you a Speed Density tune. The way that type of tune drives compared to a MAF load based tune is night and day. You should also have a e85 map done, so when you're home, or really feel like putting a hurting on that Camaro, just swap fuel/maps and go have fun. Doing a road trip? Swap to your 93 tune and don't think twice about it.
+ Grimspeed topmount is half price from processwest,
+100 on keeping cobb and doing JR tune. I would suggest my guy but with a built motor and all these monies being thrown around you pry want to make power instead of saving $400 off a tune.

I would say EWG was the best thing i ever did to the saabaru, so much fun even though im convinced the only "power" i picked up was from un maxxing my injectors which i did at the same time. Spool didnt change either much if at all which looking and matching graphs so idk what to think.
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Old 10-31-2013, 03:14 PM   #11329
Travisty
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Originally Posted by Shortpersonbk View Post

+ Grimspeed topmount is half price from processwest,
+100 on keeping cobb and doing JR tune. I would suggest my guy but with a built motor and all these monies being thrown around you pry want to make power instead of saving $400 off a tune.

I would say EWG was the best thing i ever did to the saabaru, so much fun even though im convinced the only "power" i picked up was from un maxxing my injectors which i did at the same time. Spool didnt change either much if at all which looking and matching graphs so idk what to think.
Are you signed up for the AutoX on Sunday?

My car's all warshed and ready to scoot! Should be interesting on the factory Prius tires and cold temps, haha
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Old 10-31-2013, 03:21 PM   #11330
purple_duckk
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Dylexia and the playing on the forums while at work combine to make me look stupid. You are 100% right I flipped the 2 engines. I have the EJ255, which has the weaker output.

Of course more power is always welcome, I just feel like 350 is the tipping point between power and reliability. I understand that the tune and actual motor build play a major role in the car's grenade potential. Knowing the quality of P&L's Jason's tune and having a properly built motor are making me feel like I COULD look at pushing the power envelope a little more. Especially after talking to you about SD tuning last time. I understood SD using active table lookup vs reference table look up but I didn't know about the other features like true launch control and on the fly map changes.

Believe me, if the car didn't already have the Cobb UP on it I would be going EWG. Big turbos with IWGs are like running in work boots.

I was always planning on having an E85 map, I just didn't want to base my goals around it if I couldn't count on it being available.

I'm still on the fence because I want to talk to amarcus and Layvon a little more about the kits they like and the detailed differences. Their experiences with both setups and their both saying they wish they went rotated from the start carries a lot of weight. I just have to get the true price difference and results difference clear before I make any decisions.
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Old 10-31-2013, 03:48 PM   #11331
Shortpersonbk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travisty View Post
Are you signed up for the AutoX on Sunday?

My car's all warshed and ready to scoot! Should be interesting on the factory Prius tires and cold temps, haha
I am saving my money as i leave to go to vegas on monday afternoon. I really really want to sign up but just isnt worth the money right now i don't want to not be able to enjoy my vaction because i only have $20 left to last me a couple days .
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Old 10-31-2013, 03:52 PM   #11332
Shortpersonbk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purple_duckk View Post
Dylexia and the playing on the forums while at work combine to make me look stupid. You are 100% right I flipped the 2 engines. I have the EJ255, which has the weaker output.

Of course more power is always welcome, I just feel like 350 is the tipping point between power and reliability. I understand that the tune and actual motor build play a major role in the car's grenade potential. Knowing the quality of P&L's Jason's tune and having a properly built motor are making me feel like I COULD look at pushing the power envelope a little more. Especially after talking to you about SD tuning last time. I understood SD using active table lookup vs reference table look up but I didn't know about the other features like true launch control and on the fly map changes.

Believe me, if the car didn't already have the Cobb UP on it I would be going EWG. Big turbos with IWGs are like running in work boots.

I was always planning on having an E85 map, I just didn't want to base my goals around it if I couldn't count on it being available.

I'm still on the fence because I want to talk to amarcus and Layvon a little more about the kits they like and the detailed differences. Their experiences with both setups and their both saying they wish they went rotated from the start carries a lot of weight. I just have to get the true price difference and results difference clear before I make any decisions.
A ej255 should make the same power as a 257 in reality, i have hardly seen anyone compare the two for making different power its mainly the factory turbos that make the difference, they do have different heads but again hardly seen anything proving it makes less noticeable power.
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Old 10-31-2013, 04:03 PM   #11333
Travisty
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Originally Posted by Shortpersonbk View Post

I am saving my money as i leave to go to vegas on monday afternoon. I really really want to sign up but just isnt worth the money right now i don't want to not be able to enjoy my vaction because i only have $20 left to last me a couple days .
You're only going to Vegas with $45? Hahaha, you're crazy.

You should at least come out. I'm sure you can get rides with people.
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Old 10-31-2013, 05:35 PM   #11334
Shortpersonbk
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You're only going to Vegas with $45? Hahaha, you're crazy.

You should at least come out. I'm sure you can get rides with people.
No I have quite a bit more but I don't want to spend all my monies on filling up the miata and driving down there. My dad said he will pay for it so I mean yeah I have $40.
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:25 PM   #11335
Travisty
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Originally Posted by Shortpersonbk View Post

No I have quite a bit more but I don't want to spend all my monies on filling up the miata and driving down there. My dad said he will pay for it so I mean yeah I have $40.
Haha, good call.

I was going to give you some major **** for buying a RWD sports car, and then not entering it in the final AutoX of the year.
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:59 PM   #11336
Shortpersonbk
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Haha, good call.

I was going to give you some major **** for buying a RWD sports car, and then not entering it in the final AutoX of the year.
Ha yeah all signed up don't expect me to do decent even with a car that should be semi competitive lolol
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Old 10-31-2013, 08:08 PM   #11337
Layvon
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Purple duck I might not be a good person to ask about doing things cheap. Efficiently based on my mistakes... that's a different story.

I just kept chipping away at my car until I was satisfied with it. I know within $50 how much I've spent, but I did not set an initial budget. Having said that I'm cheap and I found none vendor on here told him I was gonna spend money somewhere and I paid 5-10% less than cheapest advertised price I found. Point in case. I just got a quote on a new turbo from him, 1500 shipped. Extremepsi has it listed for $1800, IIR had it for $1780.

Good way to save money is buy used exhaust. Welding up a crack or leak isn't that expensive if it happens and you can save the sticker shock of new.

If you have any questions for me, I'll be at the autox bumming Travis' BRZ. Or post them up here and you'll get multiple answers... or pm me. That works too.
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Old 10-31-2013, 09:22 PM   #11338
Shortpersonbk
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U co driving the brz?
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Old 10-31-2013, 10:21 PM   #11339
Layvon
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Si seņor
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Old 10-31-2013, 11:35 PM   #11340
-Rizzo-
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Do you guys auto cross in the Midwest group at all at msu and that
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Old 11-01-2013, 05:52 AM   #11341
sackytar
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Yeah with the Detroit region scca.
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Old 11-01-2013, 08:44 AM   #11342
Travisty
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Yeah with the Detroit region scca.
And Furrin Group!

So who's driving the BRZ at the next event? So far we have Rob and Levon taken care of. We'll hold off from letting Eric drive it until he can stop clutching in around every corner.
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Old 11-01-2013, 09:19 AM   #11343
vaderphoto
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Haha Yea I will keep working on that. I don't know If I am going to go to the AutoX this weekend or not still.
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Old 11-01-2013, 09:58 AM   #11344
Travisty
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Haha Yea I will keep working on that. I don't know If I am going to go to the AutoX this weekend or not still.
Why you so dumb? Of course you're going!
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Old 11-01-2013, 11:02 AM   #11345
vaderphoto
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Because of monnies!!! If my boss makes sure he puts in my expense report then I should be ok if not. I'm elbrokeo
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Old 11-01-2013, 11:29 AM   #11346
Travisty
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Because of monnies!!! If my boss makes sure he puts in my expense report then I should be ok if not. I'm elbrokeo
Too broke for 25 bucks?
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Old 11-01-2013, 12:06 PM   #11347
SVT_2_WRX
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Where is the AutoX at? I'll probably be way to hungover from tailgating the State vs. scUM game but I'll pretend like I might go haha
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Old 11-01-2013, 12:58 PM   #11348
Travisty
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Where is the AutoX at? I'll probably be way to hungover from tailgating the State vs. scUM game but I'll pretend like I might go haha
In Martin, 131 Drag strip
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Old 11-01-2013, 01:06 PM   #11349
vaderphoto
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HAHA yea 25 bucks thats big money right now remember I am an idiot and wasted money this week.
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Old 11-01-2013, 01:23 PM   #11350
vaderphoto
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Ok Registered up.
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