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Old 02-05-2009, 03:34 PM   #1
TopSpeed
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News Dyno Comparison: Full-Race twin Scroll HTA35r vs Tial .63ar GT35

This test was done on two separate cars but with the same mods minus the header and turbo kit they were running. So while not apples to apples its a really close comparison.

Both cars had Perrin FMIC, 3" Turbo back exhaust, 850cc injectors, fuel rails, with stock heads and cams.

Both cars tested were also run on Shell 93oct and boost for both runs was kept the same at 21psi.

Run #41 was with Full-Race's full twin scroll turbo kit. Running the HTA35r, t4 turbine 1.06ar housing . This twin scroll kit does seem to spool up a bit faster but on the street the differences are less noticeable. We also noticed that with the FR kit the power started to fall off pretty good above 6k rpms. Our best guess is that the power loss up top is caused by the small primaries in the full race header.

Overall we were expecting huge things from this kit but feel a little let down. Power aside the fitment of this turbo kit required major work to get it to clear both the firewall and frame rails.

Run #09 was a standard GT35 rotated turbo kit with a tial V-band .63ar turbine housing. It shows to spool a tad bit slower but there is no power loss in the upper rpms. This turbo kit was a one off built for a customer as he wanted an exact copy of what we have run all year in our time attack car.

AMS however has just released their rotated turbo kits running the tial v-band housings. We are hoping to now use the AMS kit instead of building the one offs we had in the past. I would expect AMS's new turbo kit to perform very similar as the ones we built, but with that rock hard AMS reliability and warranty. Here shortly I will have an AMS turbo kit for testing and will be installing it on my personal 08sti. I will start a new thread with pictures and dyno results when I do so.


Douglas Wilks
TopSpeed Inc.

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Last edited by TopSpeed; 02-05-2009 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 02-05-2009, 03:40 PM   #2
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Here are the plots of boost vs Rpm for both turbo kits.

Blue line is Full-Race Twin Scroll HTA35r

Red is STD GT35r with Tial turbine housing.


Last edited by TopSpeed; 02-05-2009 at 04:11 PM.
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Old 02-05-2009, 03:58 PM   #3
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cool... i've been curious about the full race kit
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:00 PM   #4
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Full Race 35r was it a T3 or T4? Sounds like a T3.
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:01 PM   #5
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From the info that I gathered from FR the 35R that they supply is a T4. Maybe more information about the customers car will help shed some light on the results.
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:06 PM   #6
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T4 twin scroll 1.06ar
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:08 PM   #7
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More boost, what's the sweet spot of the 35r? Anyways Geoff has always said that twin scroll and HTA wheel are a complete mismatch. I want to see this test with a regular TS 35r
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:08 PM   #8
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How do they compare at 30psi?
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:10 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopSpeed View Post
T4 twin scroll 1.06ar

So that was the hotside Doug?...If that's the case, I'm quite drawn back...granted that the two cars are not apples to apples comparison.

Doug, do you think that maybe the twin scroll would have more of an advantage with more boost or maybe some headwork/cams?
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:10 PM   #10
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This thread has so much potential!
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:13 PM   #11
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This thread has so much potential!
Agreed!
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:17 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cellgeek101 View Post

So that was the hotside Doug?...If that's the case, I'm quite drawn back...granted that the two cars are not apples to apples comparison.

Doug, do you think that maybe the twin scroll would have more of an advantage with more boost or maybe some headwork/cams?
I do not think with more boost the twin scroll will make more power. Head work and cams would help both cars given that the VE increase remained consistent between the two. However I would be extremely concerned as the full race primaries is only 1.5" Going larger on the exhaust port may potentially hurt power gains with this header vs another with larger primaries.

Last edited by TopSpeed; 02-05-2009 at 04:32 PM.
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:17 PM   #13
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Doug, is Full-Race using 1.5" Sch10 for the primaries??

*edit* haha same time post. sch10 tho?
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:20 PM   #14
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Doug, what header do you use on your time attack GC and what sized primaries?
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:22 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jays05 View Post
How do they compare at 30psi?
I'm guessing the 1.06 t4 blows the tiny .63 out of the water on the top end.

Very informative testing though. Were these done on the same day?

-Ty
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:27 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P&L Motorsports Inc. View Post
I'm guessing the 1.06 t4 blows the tiny .63 out of the water on the top end.

Very informative testing though. Were these done on the same day?

-Ty
Not on this header though... and the 1.04 twin-scroll has more restriction than a 1.04 single would...

Siegel
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:27 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P&L Motorsports Inc. View Post
I'm guessing the 1.06 t4 blows the tiny .63 out of the water on the top end.

Very informative testing though. Were these done on the same day?

-Ty
I have no doubts that it would with the turbine housing. But feel they will need to increase the size of the primaries to see any gains with this setup.

Last edited by TopSpeed; 02-05-2009 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:29 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopSpeed View Post
I do not think with more boost the twin scroll will make more power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by P&L Motorsports Inc. View Post
I'm guessing the 1.06 t4 blows the tiny .63 out of the water on the top end.

Nothing like consistancy.


What works for one tuner doesn't work for another.

It's interesting that you both agree on the header size primaries need to be larger?
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:32 PM   #19
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I say it again TS and HTA are like oil and water
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:33 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
I say it again TS and HTA are like oil and water
Because one dood said so?
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:37 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopSpeed View Post
I would expect AMS's new turbo kit to perform very similar as the ones we built, but with that rock hard AMS reliability and warranty.
I love how when companies have sponsors they're not bias at all...

just a little
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:37 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modaddict View Post
Doug, what header do you use on your time attack GC and what sized primaries?
We run 1.75" od primaries that gives us an ID of 1.62"

The Full race manifold has an od 1.5" but runs a really thick pipe. When I measured the ID it was around 1.32" IIRC which is actually smaller then the exhaust ports outlet.
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:41 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nxttruck2002 View Post
I love how when companies have sponsors they're not bias at all...

just a little
This is an independent test. Had the result show otherwise we would have made the post accordingly. AMS does not sponsor us, but has asked that we would test one of their kits knowing we would give an unbiased review.

Fact is for a $6700 kit we were expecting huge things but were let down, Plain and simple.
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:47 PM   #24
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can someone host the pics somewhere besides photobucket so i can see them
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:59 PM   #25
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Any second or third gear comparison plots?
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