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Old 02-06-2009, 07:57 PM   #1
bape-ape
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Default Late Model Ej20Gs?

I have been looking at these motors hard for a while. I really think the older 20gs are cool since you can often stumble across a closed deck with a 5H. But these motors are newer. Whenever I have asked about them the common answer is that they are 20g bottom ends with 20k heads.

These are the motors that seem to come from JDM SF5 Foresters and GF8 non STi Wagons. They have TD04s on them.

From a power production standpoint, Along with how reliable they seem to be compared to other older JDM motors. I would prefer a JDM non STi 207, But these are the least expensive JDM swaps it seems.

How do they compare to a older model 20g and will I gain anything over the older motors to make it worth it?
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Old 02-06-2009, 10:50 PM   #2
Matt Monson
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I'd like to get my hands on one and do some measurements. Your employer has one right now in GA, but I just don't have the cash right now. It's my understanding that the late Ej20G became the basis for the Ej205 engines. I believe that the head ports are smaller than an EJ20K or Ej207 and there may be other differences like valve size and camshaft profiles. I figure that they are as good of a builder as our USDM Ej205's are at much lower cost, higher initial power levels, and totally compatible with the early cars.

I would suspect they are more reliable than a 93-96 Ej20G just based on age and mileage. And they equal the 93-94 cars in power and are more than a 95-96 wagon and are only outperformed by the early STi's and the 95-96 5MT sedan engines. But even that doesn't matter because they are modern enough that they have under inlet manifolds and are just a VF39 or any other bolt on turbo out there from 300+hp. They also don't have those pesky COP coils and have a slew of parts that are shared with USDM cars.

I suspect if we start seeing more of them coming stateside and available through importers (wink wink, nudge nudge) then they would sell well. My only concern is if they get popular they invariably will get marked up more by the importers in a year or two.
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Old 02-07-2009, 10:31 AM   #3
Cbgrandtheftauto
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hey matt if you want to check them out Im going to pull my engine out next week...I guess I'll have to do the honors of opening one up...TN not to far of a drive from CO...I'll need the expert advice and you could learn more about the engine
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Old 02-08-2009, 07:36 PM   #4
Cbgrandtheftauto
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after reading JeffrWRX's thread I looked under my oil cap to see what it said and on mine it had feb. 1996...So googling around I see that 20K's came out in Sept. 1996..So aparently Subaru was trying it to see how it worked for about 6 mo..But I wish I knew where my G came from and where that car is now...Wikipedia says either a late model wagon or a automatic sedan...But I guess this is some more info on the 20G/K hybrids...Does anybody know how many of these engines were made??...well I just found this also....

Late model EJ20Gs are the same general design as the EJ20K 3a q3t Usage:

Legacy RS 89-93
Legacy RS-RA 89-93
Legacy GT 89-93
Impreza WRX 92~96
Impreza WRX Wagon 92~98
Impreza WRX STi 94~96
227 hp (169 kW) @ 4000 rpm
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Old 02-09-2009, 01:01 PM   #5
Jaxx
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lets see here

Legacy RS 89-93 -early
Legacy RS-RA 89-93 -early
Legacy GT 89-93-early
Impreza WRX 92~96 -middle
Impreza WRX Wagon 92~96-middle
Impreza WRX STi 94~96-middle
impreza wagon 96-99 -late
forester 97-99? -late
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Old 02-09-2009, 04:18 PM   #6
Cbgrandtheftauto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxx View Post
lets see here

Legacy RS 89-93 -early
Legacy RS-RA 89-93 -early
Legacy GT 89-93-early
Impreza WRX 92~96 -middle
Impreza WRX Wagon 92~96-middle
Impreza WRX STi 94~96-middle
impreza wagon 96-99 -late
forester 97-99? -late
yea thats wikipedia info...maby it means only the late G's but listed all G's
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Old 02-09-2009, 05:57 PM   #7
Matt Monson
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Any monkey with a laptop and a wifi connection can edit wikipedia. There's a lot of information there but I would suggest looking for a secondary source on much of it.
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Old 02-09-2009, 06:16 PM   #8
luka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
Any monkey with a laptop and a wifi connection can edit wikipedia. There's a lot of information there but I would suggest looking for a secondary source on much of it.
I've done it a few times to win petty bets with friends

but I used my BB instead hah!
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Old 02-09-2009, 07:33 PM   #9
Cbgrandtheftauto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
Any monkey with a laptop and a wifi connection can edit wikipedia. There's a lot of information there but I would suggest looking for a secondary source on much of it.
oh snap...that can be edited??...I didnt know that...hmm...learn somethin new everyday
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Old 02-09-2009, 09:09 PM   #10
Jaxx
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whats really sad is that i added all that info to wikipedia

was just ej20t when i started
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Old 02-10-2009, 11:39 AM   #11
Cbgrandtheftauto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxx View Post
whats really sad is that i added all that info to wikipedia

was just ej20t when i started

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
Any monkey with a laptop and a wifi connection can edit wikipedia.
so I guess ur the one matt was refering too...
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Old 02-10-2009, 03:59 PM   #12
Matt Monson
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I said any monkey can edit it. It takes a dedicated soul like Jaxx to actually go in and write a whole wiki article. Now some monkey who thinks he knows what's up can step in and change his information.
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Old 02-10-2009, 11:26 PM   #13
Cbgrandtheftauto
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where does everybody learn all this information??
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Old 02-12-2009, 12:02 AM   #14
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from sites like this and hands on guys like this !! that learn everything that they get there greasy little hands into ! and always find somthing interesting that they did'nt know before!! about what they are workin on!
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Old 02-12-2009, 12:39 AM   #15
~domino~
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I have a my98 or version 4 GC8 WRX in Australia, what would this model be classified as in the US? and what later model would have interchangable parts? exhaust, engine e.t.c
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Old 02-12-2009, 02:52 AM   #16
thad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
I'd like to get my hands on one and do some measurements.
what measurements are you looking for specifically?
I just came upon one with the intention of using the manifold/turbo setup on my ver. 2 motor, might just pull the whole thing apart.
I also have a spare legacy 20g not sure what year, but it's still a 90 degree turbo, though the wiring looks newer.
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Old 02-16-2009, 08:09 AM   #17
bape-ape
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Well I think I have a plan now.

Get a forestor late EJ20g. Comes with a 4.44 box
I have access to a STi 3 VF23, Harness, ECU, Injectors, IC and maf setup.

Any obvious issues or is this a good plan?
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Old 02-16-2009, 10:17 AM   #18
Cbgrandtheftauto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bape-ape View Post
Well I think I have a plan now.

Get a forestor late EJ20g. Comes with a 4.44 box
I have access to a STi 3 VF23, Harness, ECU, Injectors, IC and maf setup.

Any obvious issues or is this a good plan?
I wanna know what kind of power that make when you get it set up..Im still up in the air on which turbo/injector combo im thinking about using....I know I need a transmission first...99rs 2nd gear..FTL
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Old 02-16-2009, 10:53 AM   #19
Matt Monson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bape-ape View Post
Well I think I have a plan now.

Get a forestor late EJ20g. Comes with a 4.44 box
I have access to a STi 3 VF23, Harness, ECU, Injectors, IC and maf setup.

Any obvious issues or is this a good plan?
Sounds like a good plan. I've done something similar more than once. I've taken 220ps 1st gen wagon engines and bolted on other stuff. The wagon engines and lower power engines don't tend to get hammered on as much before they get in our hands. You see all these guys talking STi-this, STi-that, and the reality is with few exceptions there are very little differences with the engines. The majority of the power and performance is made with the turbo and the tune.

If you take the intake manifold off of it, I would be interested in inlet port measurements.
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Old 02-17-2009, 09:55 AM   #20
bape-ape
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Is there anything special about the bottom ends that might solve the bearing issues typical of the 20k?
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Old 02-17-2009, 10:26 AM   #21
Matt Monson
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nope. There's no difference in the bottom end. There's also nothing wrong with Ej20K bottom ends. That's a BS internet rumour that really has no grounds in fact. What is essentially the same crank and rods was used from 1992-2000. That includes the v5 and v6 STi's. Why did the Ej20K become the scapegoat? It became the scapegoat because when they fail guys whine and b1tched really loudly and then people starting thinking there was a problem because of these little boys who cry wolf.

I think the biggest part of it is that the EJ20K is a more powerful engine with a more aggressive tune.You get guys here in the states running them on pump gas without any compensation for the change in octane and what happens? Detonation happens. What does detonation do? It beats the crap out of rod bearings and causes failures. It's not the engine's fault that we're putting it into circumstances it wasn't intended to suffer through. The tuning of the Ej20G's is more forgiving than the EJ20k's. I think that's the primary reason we see more failures on one than the other.
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Old 02-17-2009, 11:15 AM   #22
bape-ape
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Thanks Matt. I have access to everything but the long block and trans. Intake manifold and all. I am not sure about running the 6S ( I think) ecu now.
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Old 02-17-2009, 01:08 PM   #23
Matt Monson
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If you run the 6S ECU, get a boost controller and dial it back 1-2psi off of stock. That's what a number of members have done with their v3-v6 STi swaps. Sure, you'll only be at 260+/-chp, but in a '93L you'll be surprised what that does for you, especially with that 4.44 tranny. Hell, my 220chp '99RS laps with stock USDM STi's at the track.

If you decide you want to go for max HP numbers you'll want to get an Apex-i or talk to someone that can chip the ECU for you.
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Old 02-17-2009, 01:46 PM   #24
bape-ape
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Thanks. My L is a 93 factory zero option car. Came without power windows, No rear speakers and is FWD. Its gonna be super light I hope. Doing a alloy hood, JDM front and rear bumpers and beams.
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Old 02-17-2009, 02:00 PM   #25
Cbgrandtheftauto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
nope. There's no difference in the bottom end. There's also nothing wrong with Ej20K bottom ends. That's a BS internet rumour that really has no grounds in fact. What is essentially the same crank and rods was used from 1992-2000. That includes the v5 and v6 STi's. Why did the Ej20K become the scapegoat? It became the scapegoat because when they fail guys whine and b1tched really loudly and then people starting thinking there was a problem because of these little boys who cry wolf.

I think the biggest part of it is that the EJ20K is a more powerful engine with a more aggressive tune.You get guys here in the states running them on pump gas without any compensation for the change in octane and what happens? Detonation happens. What does detonation do? It beats the crap out of rod bearings and causes failures. It's not the engine's fault that we're putting it into circumstances it wasn't intended to suffer through. The tuning of the Ej20G's is more forgiving than the EJ20k's. I think that's the primary reason we see more failures on one than the other.
thats what ive heard also...most ppl can only find 91oct and they run the STi ecu with stock tune...maby with 93oct the engine might hold up better...and Ive seen the stock STi map and my its aggressive..nothing like the WRX map or the Apexi PFC thats in my car....but I curious to see if this engine is open, closed, or semi-closed deck
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