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Old 02-06-2009, 09:03 PM   #1
madmax718
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Default Something broke- but not sure what

Was driving my 97 dohc outback. About 200 miles after doing the headgasket and related items.

All of a sudden at a stop light, the engine cuts out. dead. Wont restart. Towed home.

Ok, here's what I did, if any of you super gurus can help.

1. Full charge on battery. Cranks, but never catches.
2. Check spark. Spark good.
3. Check Stored Codes- no codes/dtc
4. check air flow-removed airbox, can feel air being sucked as car is cranked. Guess the timing belt is still ok.
5. Felt fuel line- can feel pressure build as engine is keyed on.

I know feeling the line is not "proof" that the pump is working correctly. But I just wanted to know what should be my next step. I have a crank angle sensor and cam sensor on order at autozone.

Tomorrow I will spray some starting fluid, see if it catches, but i'd love all your expertise to chime in.
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Old 02-07-2009, 04:37 PM   #2
madmax718
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Ok still not working.

Sprayed starter fluid, it popped a few times. I will try this again later through the vac hose I guess.

I took off the fuel line, plenty of fuel came out when keyed on. Guess the relay and pump are working just fine.

THe one interesting thing.. the car backfires like every3-4 revolutions.

I think im testing the injectors wrong too- any links to testing it?
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Old 02-07-2009, 05:50 PM   #3
munkis
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Sounds like the timing belt may have jumped. Re-check cam timing if you have spark fuel compression.
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Old 02-07-2009, 06:51 PM   #4
blackfang
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Definitely would look at that.
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Old 02-07-2009, 07:11 PM   #5
madmax718
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Ya, I was just in the process, but got a little cold.. brr... I got one timing cover off, the other on is a little bit more of a pain in the ass. I also kick myself for not marking the balancer clearly, cause now I cant see where TDC is. ..
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Old 02-08-2009, 12:18 PM   #6
yarrgh
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I had a similar problem when I swapped heads. One of the pins on my crank sensor was bent, making intermittent contact w/the plug, which told the ECU to not send spark.

Double check all your electrical connections. On second thought, if all you did was the belt, those sensors shouldn't have been touched. Oh well, do like the other guys say and check the physical timing. If it only jumped a couple of teeth, your valves should be ok. Compression test is your friend.
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Old 02-08-2009, 10:29 PM   #7
madmax718
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I wish it was that. 7 teeth. I have to do a compression test, but it seems like cylinder one is damaged some how..
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Old 02-08-2009, 11:21 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madmax718 View Post
I wish it was that. 7 teeth. I have to do a compression test, but it seems like cylinder one is damaged some how..
7 teeth is bent valves
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Old 02-09-2009, 06:20 AM   #9
madmax718
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shh... I kinds knew the answer already, but you know.. was trying to lie to myself.

I havent been able to figure out exactly why it did jump so many teeth. Upon inspection, the cams did not move relative to each other. It was just as if the crank skipped 7 teeth.

When this happened it was at idle. All the pulleys were new, as well as a new tensioner pulley. This was the older style plunger, so that was compressed, and re-used. When I took the cover off, everything was tight. plunger was working. The cams didnt sieze, So all this is a little.. troublesome.

I am kicking myself in the ass- maybe it was cheaper made in china timing belt.
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Old 02-09-2009, 09:24 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by madmax718 View Post
shh... I kinds knew the answer already, but you know.. was trying to lie to myself.

I havent been able to figure out exactly why it did jump so many teeth. Upon inspection, the cams did not move relative to each other. It was just as if the crank skipped 7 teeth.

When this happened it was at idle. All the pulleys were new, as well as a new tensioner pulley. This was the older style plunger, so that was compressed, and re-used. When I took the cover off, everything was tight. plunger was working. The cams didnt sieze, So all this is a little.. troublesome.

I am kicking myself in the ass- maybe it was cheaper made in china timing belt.
well.......that may be....but....

ask in the na forum.........and I know the newer engines are 'interference' and some of the older ones are NOT.....you may have some other issue and maybe not bent valves

some have posted that 3 teeth on the 'interference' engines is usually 'ok'(no bent valves) and 4 teeth usually is NOT and more than 4 is no doubt, bent valves
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Old 02-09-2009, 04:39 PM   #11
yarrgh
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you're also assuming that the crank skipped all 7 teeth at once. These cars can still run with a few skipped teeth. There is a sort of "cover" over the crank timing pulley, was it installed within spec? I think it's .020" away from the belt. Torque the 2 bolts to spec and that should hold the belt in place.

When you compressed the tensioner, did you do it VERY slowly? Use a c-clamp and twist 1/2 turn every minute or 2.
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Old 02-09-2009, 05:16 PM   #12
madmax718
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Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
well.......that may be....but....

ask in the na forum.........and I know the newer engines are 'interference' and some of the older ones are NOT.....you may have some other issue and maybe not bent valves

some have posted that 3 teeth on the 'interference' engines is usually 'ok'(no bent valves) and 4 teeth usually is NOT and more than 4 is no doubt, bent valves
Unfortunately, mine is an interference engine.. I believe the SOHC were not..
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Old 02-09-2009, 05:18 PM   #13
madmax718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yarrgh View Post
you're also assuming that the crank skipped all 7 teeth at once. These cars can still run with a few skipped teeth. There is a sort of "cover" over the crank timing pulley, was it installed within spec? I think it's .020" away from the belt. Torque the 2 bolts to spec and that should hold the belt in place.

When you compressed the tensioner, did you do it VERY slowly? Use a c-clamp and twist 1/2 turn every minute or 2.
Well, it ran perfect until it happened. If it skipped a few here and there, I would have noticed. I mean, ok, one, two.. ya, 3/4 woulda been barely able to start and pounding the pistons. That little cover is only in manual motor, never seen one in an automatic.

I'll do a compression test when I get back. Car runs like poop.. maybe I can keep running it until it straightens the valve out. lol... Im going to go hide under my blanket now.
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Old 02-09-2009, 05:23 PM   #14
munkis
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All DOHC are interferance. More so for Valve to Valve contact vs Piston to valve contact.

2.2L can freewheel and I think thats it.
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