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Old 03-06-2012, 11:00 PM   #451
Chesh
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Back to polishing on the Saiga 12. After murdering the hell out of the bolt carrier with the Dremel I've gone old school and switched to sand paper and sore fingers. Started at 400 grit and I just finished with 8000. You can still see some marks, but it glides. Good learning experience. Now if I ever do work on anyone elses' shotty I'll do theirs right.
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Old 03-07-2012, 03:16 AM   #452
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Bolt, bolt carrier, and hammer are now polished to a mirror shine. I'm still getting some serious binding when the bolt comes back all the way. I have to slam the charging handle with the heel of my hand to get it to break free. I'm thinking the rails may have some crap in it because it's even doing it with the bolt removed. Irritated and confused. I'm done for the night.
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Old 03-11-2012, 06:49 AM   #453
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So no go on the dremel to the bolt carrier action? I ALMOST started mine today then got sidetracked. I'm ready to learn Jedi master...
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Old 03-11-2012, 10:41 AM   #454
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Why in earth are you taking anything to the bolt carrier - dremel, sandpaper whatever

It does not take much to screw up alignments - even a small change can cause all sorts of issues

If you want a shiny bolt carrier - buy one that way but to take stock one and modify it yourself? Just asking for misfeeds or even worse an unlocked bolt when the weapon goes off

If you are not a gunsmith then leave mods to someone who is!
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Old 03-12-2012, 12:08 AM   #455
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Originally Posted by tt_ttf View Post
Why in earth are you taking anything to the bolt carrier - dremel, sandpaper whatever

It does not take much to screw up alignments - even a small change can cause all sorts of issues

If you want a shiny bolt carrier - buy one that way but to take stock one and modify it yourself? Just asking for misfeeds or even worse an unlocked bolt when the weapon goes off

If you are not a gunsmith then leave mods to someone who is!
You've obviously never worked on an AK or variant (yes, variant. Saiga's are not AK's). You could take out half of the metal on the damn thing and as long as your rails are intact the damn thing will cycle. They were designed to be abused and still run. This is not an AR-15.

Why would I modify my own gun? Because I can turn this:


Into this:



I also do my own work because I effing want to. I paid for my shotgun with my money that I earned and if I break it, I will pay for replacement parts. It has nothing to do with wanting "shiny" parts. It has everything to do with performance. A stock Saiga 12 barely functions. It takes quite a bit of work to get it to where it is reliable. If you don't feel comfortable doing simple 'smith work on your firearms by all means pay someone else to do it. This is no different than working on your car. Not all of us are comfortable doing some of the work on our cars, so we pay a professional to do it.

SnoCoWRX, I haven't gotten back to it yet. I'll let you know what I find out. Sandpaper is definitely the way to go though.
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Old 03-12-2012, 12:44 AM   #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chesh

You've obviously never worked on an AK or variant (yes, variant. Saiga's are not AK's). You could take out half of the metal on the damn thing and as long as your rails are intact the damn thing will cycle. They were designed to be abused and still run. This is not an AR-15.

Why would I modify my own gun? Because I can turn this:

Into this:

I also do my own work because I effing want to. I paid for my shotgun with my money that I earned and if I break it, I will pay for replacement parts. It has nothing to do with wanting "shiny" parts. It has everything to do with performance. A stock Saiga 12 barely functions. It takes quite a bit of work to get it to where it is reliable. If you don't feel comfortable doing simple 'smith work on your firearms by all means pay someone else to do it. This is no different than working on your car. Not all of us are comfortable doing some of the work on our cars, so we pay a professional to do it.

SnoCoWRX, I haven't gotten back to it yet. I'll let you know what I find out. Sandpaper is definitely the way to go though.
A) loose the attitude - frankly being that way around firearms is stupid no matter how smart you think you are or what your background might be.

B) abused/ modified does not mean safe - safety failures, double cycles, unintended discharges etc - and for all your attitude I am not sure you know what you are doing - external hardware is easy but internals are something all together different and doing internal mods in a uncontrolled manner such as sandpaper is dangerous no if ands or buts

C) fine modify away but do it away from me and anyone else you have not told before hand that you have been - breaking your weapon or parts is last thing I am worried about 'cause it probably won't be you that gets hurt

'nuff said....
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Old 03-12-2012, 01:24 AM   #457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tt_ttf View Post
A) loose the attitude - frankly being that way around firearms is stupid no matter how smart you think you are or what your background might be.

B) abused/ modified does not mean safe - safety failures, double cycles, unintended discharges etc - and for all your attitude I am not sure you know what you are doing - external hardware is easy but internals are something all together different and doing internal mods in a uncontrolled manner such as sandpaper is dangerous no if ands or buts

C) fine modify away but do it away from me and anyone else you have not told before hand that you have been - breaking your weapon or parts is last thing I am worried about 'cause it probably won't be you that gets hurt

'nuff said....
I don't recall seeing where you have the authority to boss me around. I'm supposed to "loose" my attitude, but you're free to be pissy in my direction. If you seriously thought I wasn't exaggerating when I talked about how much abuse the parts can take you probably don't socialize very much.

The Dremel and sandpaper work I was doing was to POLISH. Did you miss that part? We POLISH parts to help them slide against each other easier. I am not weakening anything. Go find some 8000 grit sandpaper, rub your hand against it, and then tell me I'm going to break a gun with that.

Yeah, I'm being a bit more of an a-hole than I need to be, but I'm sick of people trying to push their opinions. So many people are scared to do a little minor work to their guns. Fine. Shut the hell up about it and I'll be over here doing the work that is needed to make this gun function correctly. What do you think your friendly neighborhood gunsmith would be doing to it? Probably a Dremel polish job. Then they'd charge you another couple hundred dollars on top of the build charges. Worth it? It depends. Sometimes we're all lazy enough that it is worth it. In this case I want the satisfaction of doing the work myself. I don't need to be a gunsmith to have done the research needed to do the work.

Want to tell me how I shouldn't have taken my pistol that was DAO and converted it to DA/SA? The gun functions flawlessly because I did the research needed to know what I needed to do. It's also a smooth shooting gun because I've polished the internals. I guess I wouldn't know anything about that though because I'm not a gunsmith.

I guess I shouldn't have removed the pistol sights that the gunsmith screwed up and installed them correctly myself. Let's not bring up how the "gunsmith" drove the sights out the wrong direction and effed up the dovetails.

Disapprove all you want. Those of us that actually own Saigas will kindly ignore your opinion and go back to sharing feedback on what makes the conversion process easier.
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Old 03-12-2012, 04:18 AM   #458
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I don't see what the problem is, polishing an ak bolt is very common.

Last edited by scrappydoo; 03-12-2012 at 04:45 AM.
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Old 03-12-2012, 03:46 PM   #459
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Damn...I thought this was going to be one of the only drama free sections of NWIC

The way I look at this is doing modifications to a firearm is like doing mods to your car, there are risks and rewards in them both.

If your skill level or compentance does not warrant doing the work then pay someone else to do it, but if you want to try a DIY then you must accept the risks and responsibility if something goes wrong.
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Old 03-15-2012, 11:33 PM   #460
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Well, since chesh beat me to it i won't even quote what the internet cowboy posted above about modifying your gun. Chesh hit the nail on the head. It's not like polishing a bolt carrier for less friction has ANY affect on safe functioning. People who work on their own guns tend to do massive amounts of research, and learn from those who have successfully completed such work (many of whom are gunsmiths) and then proceed. Why do you think I'm waiting for someone with a little more experience who is local to finish his up and get some real life pointers? Go ahead and tuck it back between your legs if it scares you to polish a bolt for function, and run over to your gunsmith while he laughs all the way to the bank knowing you could very well do it yourself at home. I'd rather pocket the cash and buy some other upgrade for my weapons if possible.
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Old 03-16-2012, 01:53 AM   #461
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I polish all my bolts. Not to a mirror shine, but enough to improve the Acton and accuracy.
My 45 would occasionally missfeed or double fire. Now that I have it MODIFIED, (OMG) it shoots like a dream. Nobody can believe the groups this semi auto lays down. For a short barreled 45 this gun is amazing.
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:07 PM   #462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
I polish all my bolts. Not to a mirror shine, but enough to improve the Acton and accuracy.
My 45 would occasionally missfeed or double fire. Now that I have it MODIFIED, (OMG) it shoots like a dream. Nobody can believe the groups this semi auto lays down. For a short barreled 45 this gun is amazing.
What'cha got, Dom?
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Old 03-16-2012, 06:14 PM   #463
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Ruger KP90DC is one of 'em.
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Old 03-16-2012, 09:59 PM   #464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
I polish all my bolts. Not to a mirror shine, but enough to improve the Acton and accuracy.
My 45 would occasionally missfeed or double fire. Now that I have it MODIFIED, (OMG) it shoots like a dream. Nobody can believe the groups this semi auto lays down. For a short barreled 45 this gun is amazing.
My FN has never had issues completely stock, it takes all the diff ammo I load too no issues. My buddy has the 9mm version of that Ruger and his jammed all the time, I switched him to Gun Butter for lube and cleaned the holy hell out of it for him and it works great now.
Same goes for my AR-15 I dont polish anything and it never missfeeds or misfires. A lot of it comes down to parts you use or lube.

My dads XD .45 kept missfeeding and a guy a norpoint told him to polish this and that (not the gunsmith) and it didnt help. I told him it was his magazines (he got some china knock off mags that were marked as factory Springfield), turns out it was his magazines. Feeds fine w actualy factory mags.
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Old 03-16-2012, 10:03 PM   #465
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Anybody own a S&W MP Semi-auto pistol? I plan on buying one next month and seeing if anybody has fired one. My buddy loves his .45 but I plan on getting the .40. I was thinking of a XDM but I am not too crazy about buying guns that are made in a different country (even though I do own a Taurus .44Mag)
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Old 03-16-2012, 10:10 PM   #466
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Originally Posted by Matt08WRX View Post
My dads XD .45 kept missfeeding and a guy a norpoint told him to polish this and that (not the gunsmith) and it didnt help. I told him it was his magazines (he got some china knock off mags that were marked as factory Springfield), turns out it was his magazines. Feeds fine w actualy factory mags.
That sucks to hear about the magazines. If he wants to salvage them a lot of times you can fix the problem by giving the followers a light sanding on the rough spots. It that doesn't work, replacing the springs should do it. I have a Witness that all of the factory mags I bought would send the rounds nosediving into the feed ramp. Wolff springs were the only thing that fixed them. Cheap fix compared to buying new mags.
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Old 03-17-2012, 04:18 PM   #467
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I thought about not replying but no damn it I will based on some of the pile on

Polish for function is a excuse - as someone pointed out, proper lube like gun butter, weapon shield etc ie any vapor barrier type lubricants don't need smooth surfaces to work properly and in fact the lub tech is so good where even with rough phosphated surfaces you see nearly no wear because the properly dimensioned surfaces never end up touching. Even in the ak and saiga world a sizable percentage calling this completely unwarranted and bling rather than needed and the cause is far more likely something other that a a pure need to polish like bad magazines, wrong ammo etc

I am well aware of ak's and saiga's et al and frankly the scary stories of the crappy QA and dimensioning on their commercial builds (2nd and rejects being good enough for commercial sale - their mil spec being as tight as here) makes me more than a little concerned that if you "have" to do this to even make them function (after eliminating the kiss causes) then all the "loose" tolerance claims is a line and what else have they skimped on that means it left the factory with a basic feed problem.

As for western arms - you have feed problems that are not ammo related then either it has something wrong a professional (not fly by night self claimed gunsmith/armorer needs to look at) or if it's like that out of the box take it back if it's a reputable brand - any reputable company will make it right if you really have a lemon.

As for being safe - I stand by my comment - you want to do this fine but make damn certain you make it clear to others around you what you have done. There are surfaces that you take even fine sandpaper to you dont need to much at all and you have risks for problems like bad safeties and or open action missfires.

As for calling this gun smithing - it's not - there is a huge difference between this and say taking a raw block of material and making a component or full firearm that functions correctly.

Like all things Internet to each his own but this is one case where you are putting others around you at risk and this is WAY different to modding a car.
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Old 03-17-2012, 08:38 PM   #468
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As for calling this gun smithing - it's not - there is a huge difference between this and say taking a raw block of material and making a component or full firearm that functions correctly.
Actually taking a raw block of material and making a component or a full firearms is called manufacturing and it requires a license in the good ol' state of Washington. However, the term gunsmith does apply to fixing guns. I offer these as reference:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gunsmith
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gunsmith
Technically one does need to have a piece of paper to call themselves a gunsmith, which is why I chose not to call myself one. I did, however, say that I do some minor gunsmithing work. Nothing that puts me outside of the law. Nothing that is unsafe or unresearched. The work by definition is something that a gunsmith would typically do. Are you a car mechanic by trade? Most of us aren't. We still do mechanic (or mechanical) work when we work on our cars.

So many analogies to working on cars and working on guns. To be honest I think we put more lives at risk working on your car ourselves than a firearm. When I'm testing a gun I've worked on I always load one round at a time for the first few shots, then two, then three, then a magazine. Usually there are only one or two other people around. We hurl our cars down the highway at 60+ mph after doing all sorts of modifications to it. Lots of other drivers on the road.

To the rest... I'm not going to beat the dead horse. You have your opinion. We (seeming to be the majority here) have ours. Yours is noted. You are free to ignore this thread now. I'm really not trying to have a fight over the internet, but I'm not going to bow and apologize for doing something that I know to be safe just because you don't feel comfortable with it. Let's move on.
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Old 03-18-2012, 12:59 AM   #469
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Back to the topic of guns:

I traded my Eotech MPO straight across for a Trijicon. I was planning on selling the MPO and figured the Trijicon would be easier to sell.

Now I want to keep it.

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Old 03-20-2012, 01:44 AM   #470
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Stuff for my FN PBR XP .308

Votex Viper PTS 4x16x50
rings
AAC flash hider
also got the barrle threaded picking it up from Curts tomorrow.




my new build





Noveske Billet V2 lower W/flared magwell
Mega Billet Monolithic upper
EOTech 512
Spikes Nickel Boren BCG
Spikes Nickel Boren Battel trigger
Spikes dust cover
Spikes Heavy Buffer
Bravo Co billet charging handle
Magpul STR milspec buttstock
Magpul Bad lever
Hogue Grip

just need a barrel and a few misc items.


my 10/22 build stuff i picked up this weekend as well.

Hogue stock
mags
mag release
picany rail
couple cool 12ga shells as well.
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Old 03-20-2012, 02:09 AM   #471
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That AR is looking sexy already. We demand pics of the .308! I almost scooped one of those scopes up for a deal, but I let a friend have the deal instead. He said he was happy with it.

I picked up my first 10mm today. Now I just need food for it.
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Old 03-20-2012, 02:30 AM   #472
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That's a nice lower! Where'd you pick that up?
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Old 03-20-2012, 09:07 AM   #473
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My friends at North West Armory had the best price on the lower.... might be due to the fact they get the best pricing cause of how much they buy at a time :-)
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Old 03-20-2012, 09:55 AM   #474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt08WRX View Post
Anybody own a S&W MP Semi-auto pistol? I plan on buying one next month and seeing if anybody has fired one. My buddy loves his .45 but I plan on getting the .40. I was thinking of a XDM but I am not too crazy about buying guns that are made in a different country (even though I do own a Taurus .44Mag)
I have a M&P 40. Great shooting, never any issues.
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Old 03-20-2012, 01:48 PM   #475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt08WRX View Post
Anybody own a S&W MP Semi-auto pistol? I plan on buying one next month and seeing if anybody has fired one. My buddy loves his .45 but I plan on getting the .40. I was thinking of a XDM but I am not too crazy about buying guns that are made in a different country (even though I do own a Taurus .44Mag)
I've shot a M&P 9 full-size (actually it was my first ever handgun that I shot) and it was great. Very comfortable and the trigger felt very second-nature (if that makes sense).
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