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Old 03-29-2012, 12:32 PM   #2876
scaryfastskier
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I like your taste in cars.
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Old 03-29-2012, 10:24 PM   #2877
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So I did a 3" lift on my XJ this past weekend. The other day on the way home from work I noticed a noise coming from the rear. Usually happens from 45-60mph and will go away if I lift off the throttle.

After some research it sounds like I need a slip joint eliminator or I need to shim the transfer case down an inch or so.

I'm not sure how I didn't know about this beforehand. Anyway, I've put 500 miles on it as it is, and I won't be able to fix it until the weekend. How long should/could my ujoint hold up?

I'll add pics tomorrow.
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Old 03-29-2012, 10:47 PM   #2878
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In regards to the Willy's Pickup posted earlier, here is the OG-
Hot!!!
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Old 03-30-2012, 08:52 AM   #2879
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^^^
Yes, super hot. I have been semi-obsessed with old Jeeps lately. I'll post some of the better build threads another time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunks View Post
So I did a 3" lift on my XJ this past weekend. The other day on the way home from work I noticed a noise coming from the rear. Usually happens from 45-60mph and will go away if I lift off the throttle.

After some research it sounds like I need a slip joint eliminator or I need to shim the transfer case down an inch or so.

I'm not sure how I didn't know about this beforehand. Anyway, I've put 500 miles on it as it is, and I won't be able to fix it until the weekend. How long should/could my ujoint hold up?

I'll add pics tomorrow.
SYE is something you should do anyways if you plan on further mods/wheeling. The reason it's worse when you lift at speed is the rear end rises, making the pinion angle and or Drive shaft angle worse.

Personally I think shimming down the Tcase is a ghetto fix, and it lowers your belly height, making your lift less effective as you lose break over. I dunno too much about XJ's but I would be looking to tuck the tummy if it's possible or at least not lower it.

I did a JB conversions Super short SYE, but you can likely get away with a less $$$ SYE, there are some great deals out there right now....
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f43/s...t-com-1317164/
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f43/b...149-a-1271216/





In other news...
Got my axles picked up last night. Ended up with Chromo's in the rear 8.8 so I am pretty damn excited about that.

CAN NOT WAIT to have 4.56's.

Wish me luck, going over to another ADK Jeeps members house to work on the 4 link tomorrow nice and early.
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Old 03-30-2012, 10:10 PM   #2880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideshowbob View Post
^^^
Yes, super hot. I have been semi-obsessed with old Jeeps lately. I'll post some of the better build threads another time.




SYE is something you should do anyways if you plan on further mods/wheeling. The reason it's worse when you lift at speed is the rear end rises, making the pinion angle and or Drive shaft angle worse.

Personally I think shimming down the Tcase is a ghetto fix, and it lowers your belly height, making your lift less effective as you lose break over. I dunno too much about XJ's but I would be looking to tuck the tummy if it's possible or at least not lower it.



I did a JB conversions Super short SYE, but you can likely get away with a less $$$ SYE, there are some great deals out there right now....
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f43/s...t-com-1317164/
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f43/b...149-a-1271216/
I really wish I did more research then. Not ready to drop 400-600 on this thing right now. FWIW, I'm not into the whole rock crawling thing, I go through old logging roads/trails occasionally and it was perfectly capable stock. This was more or less a cosmetic thing (went w/ some moab knock-offs and all-terrains)

I guess i'll fab some shims this weekend, but i'm not concerned w/ belly height. If not, could it serve as a permanent fix?
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Old 03-31-2012, 12:18 AM   #2881
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Old 03-31-2012, 12:42 AM   #2882
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i wanna do an fc 150 build now.
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Old 03-31-2012, 09:58 AM   #2883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunks View Post
I really wish I did more research then. Not ready to drop 400-600 on this thing right now. FWIW, I'm not into the whole rock crawling thing, I go through old logging roads/trails occasionally and it was perfectly capable stock. This was more or less a cosmetic thing (went w/ some moab knock-offs and all-terrains)

I guess i'll fab some shims this weekend, but i'm not concerned w/ belly height. If not, could it serve as a permanent fix?
Hes mostly right

Anything over a 2" lift on an XJ will cause driveline vibes. But the 45-60 is a different demon altogether.

Ill try and keep it short I promise.

So if you look at a stock cherokee driveshaft it has 2 u joints (duh right), so the way these things work is one pushes power at different points in time and when the shaft is aligned properly you can plot the power points of each and it should look like a sign wave where one peak is centered over 1 valley and they cross the 0 line at the same point. This is called a single cardian setup.

Typically when you install a lift.. I will assume a budget lift since you said your on a diet with your wallet. The rear lift springs for the cherokee will have spring angle wedges attached through the spring centering bolt to rotate the rear axle up and point it more towards the t-case.

This is bad. Because it changes how that sign wave works and then you get harmonic vibrations. Becuase for a single cardian driveshaft to work properly both u joints angles have to match in relation from the yokes to the shaft.

When you are on the throttle its lifting the rear end up due to torque, and the reason you feel the vibes go away when you lift off is due to decel it will actually drop the pinion angle some and put the sign wave closer to where it belongs.

SO solutions.

A__________________________
Correct for most offroaders. You can do a slip yoke eliminator but that is usually not necessary on a cherokee that isn't going to be wheeled. The reason most people do this mod is two fold.
#1 you get a longer driveshaft, especially on tj/ty/jk short wheelbase applications this is HUGE, and while a cherokee can benefit, the stock cherokee rear shaft is long enough to accomodate a 4-6" lift without needing more length for less angle.
#2 you loose the slip yoke. Which is huge offroad. If you break a driveshaft wheeling you can loose all your fluid and be stuck in the middle of nowhere and have made a nice ecological hazard.

B_________________________
Yes you can drop your t-case an inch, but while this lessens the driveshaft angle it does NOT fix the problem with the sign waves of the u-joints being out of alignment. It may reduce some vibrations or all, but it is NOT the right way to do it, especially since your spring shims will then be making everything extra wacky. Plus it stresses the motor mounts.

C_________________________
The correct answer for you. Get what is referred to as a dual cardian driveshaft or a CV (constant velocity) shaft. Contrary to popular opinion you do NOT have to have a slip yoke eliminator to have one of these. Tom Woods www.4xshaft.com will build them to replace your stock shaft for a lil less than $300.

Since option 3 is the correct method you need to know how to install it right, or it too... wont work.

So ...how do you do it... lol

These shafts work by placing all the angle into the CV joint and letting the rear joint at the axle be at rest 0 degrees. The shims that were on your lift springs should make this close to perfect. If not, you can order different shims.

So order new shaft, replace old shaft. Crawl under jeep, draw a imaginary line thru the horizontal center of the driveshaft all the way thru the yoke of the rear axle if it is at 0 degrees then you are good.. if its not order a greater or lesser shim pack to replace the ones on the springs, and your done.

Hope my short answer helps a bit. (so I lied)


For more info on this... go to www.4xshaft.com and look under the tech info section... it goes into greater detail.

Last edited by The Phenx; 03-31-2012 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 03-31-2012, 11:11 AM   #2884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunks View Post
I really wish I did more research then. Not ready to drop 400-600 on this thing right now. FWIW, I'm not into the whole rock crawling thing, I go through old logging roads/trails occasionally and it was perfectly capable stock. This was more or less a cosmetic thing (went w/ some moab knock-offs and all-terrains)

I guess i'll fab some shims this weekend, but i'm not concerned w/ belly height. If not, could it serve as a permanent fix?
I had a 4.5" lift on my 2001 XJ for 80k miles with no SYE kit and had no problems. Sadly, I only used my jeep to commute to work so no off-roading. I think you'll be fine if your just wheeling around town.





I really regret selling her. On a side note I bought the skyjacker tcase lowering kit that I never got around to installing. I think I still have it in my basement. I can sell it to you if you want.

Last edited by kingsti; 03-31-2012 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 04-01-2012, 06:41 PM   #2885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Phenx View Post
Hes mostly right

Anything over a 2" lift on an XJ will cause driveline vibes. But the 45-60 is a different demon altogether.

Ill try and keep it short I promise.

So if you look at a stock cherokee driveshaft it has 2 u joints (duh right), so the way these things work is one pushes power at different points in time and when the shaft is aligned properly you can plot the power points of each and it should look like a sign wave where one peak is centered over 1 valley and they cross the 0 line at the same point. This is called a single cardian setup.

Typically when you install a lift.. I will assume a budget lift since you said your on a diet with your wallet. The rear lift springs for the cherokee will have spring angle wedges attached through the spring centering bolt to rotate the rear axle up and point it more towards the t-case.

This is bad. Because it changes how that sign wave works and then you get harmonic vibrations. Becuase for a single cardian driveshaft to work properly both u joints angles have to match in relation from the yokes to the shaft.

When you are on the throttle its lifting the rear end up due to torque, and the reason you feel the vibes go away when you lift off is due to decel it will actually drop the pinion angle some and put the sign wave closer to where it belongs.

SO solutions.

A__________________________
Correct for most offroaders. You can do a slip yoke eliminator but that is usually not necessary on a cherokee that isn't going to be wheeled. The reason most people do this mod is two fold.
#1 you get a longer driveshaft, especially on tj/ty/jk short wheelbase applications this is HUGE, and while a cherokee can benefit, the stock cherokee rear shaft is long enough to accomodate a 4-6" lift without needing more length for less angle.
#2 you loose the slip yoke. Which is huge offroad. If you break a driveshaft wheeling you can loose all your fluid and be stuck in the middle of nowhere and have made a nice ecological hazard.

B_________________________
Yes you can drop your t-case an inch, but while this lessens the driveshaft angle it does NOT fix the problem with the sign waves of the u-joints being out of alignment. It may reduce some vibrations or all, but it is NOT the right way to do it, especially since your spring shims will then be making everything extra wacky. Plus it stresses the motor mounts.

C_________________________
The correct answer for you. Get what is referred to as a dual cardian driveshaft or a CV (constant velocity) shaft. Contrary to popular opinion you do NOT have to have a slip yoke eliminator to have one of these. Tom Woods www.4xshaft.com will build them to replace your stock shaft for a lil less than $300.

Since option 3 is the correct method you need to know how to install it right, or it too... wont work.

So ...how do you do it... lol

These shafts work by placing all the angle into the CV joint and letting the rear joint at the axle be at rest 0 degrees. The shims that were on your lift springs should make this close to perfect. If not, you can order different shims.

So order new shaft, replace old shaft. Crawl under jeep, draw a imaginary line thru the horizontal center of the driveshaft all the way thru the yoke of the rear axle if it is at 0 degrees then you are good.. if its not order a greater or lesser shim pack to replace the ones on the springs, and your done.

Hope my short answer helps a bit. (so I lied)


For more info on this... go to www.4xshaft.com and look under the tech info section... it goes into greater detail.

Thanks for all the info. May do the shim thing temporarily and do the drive shaft later... I used an add-a-leaf kit to raise the rear, if that matters.

Here's a pic.

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Old 04-01-2012, 09:43 PM   #2886
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Thanks for all the info. May do the shim thing temporarily and do the drive shaft later... I used an add-a-leaf kit to raise the rear, if that matters.
It matters a lot actually.

If you used an adda leaf I am not sure how you got a 3" lift...all that aside.

My post was based on an actual lift kit...

Lets start with the lift/shocks and mods you used to lift it and take it form there. Did you use coil spacers in the front?

Shouldn't be hard to diagnose the issue and then get it fixed.. as inexpensively as possible.
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:35 PM   #2887
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Here's the kit I used: http://www.roughcountry.com/jeep_xj_3.html

IIRC it was a 2.5" lift up front (coils) and 3" in the rear.
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:40 AM   #2888
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Originally Posted by zombiekiller View Post
Hell there's been a 91 80 series landcruiser on volvo portals and 39s thats been changing hands for the past few years that ALWAYS sells for less than that.
I've been watching that vehicle for a while now. It really is a sad sight to see it in the condition it is now. The newest owner should be shot for not taking care of it.
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Old 04-02-2012, 08:55 AM   #2889
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Originally Posted by Slow5oh

I've been watching that vehicle for a while now. It really is a sad sight to see it in the condition it is now. The newest owner should be shot for not taking care of it.
I know, right? Drop that much cash on it, then complain that it gets bad gas mileage, try to sell it, then start dismantling it?

Did he really think a school bus with a tractor motor, low gears and 39 inch tires was gonna get Prius-like mileage?
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:51 AM   #2890
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4 Link 8.8 rear and HPD30 front axle are in.

Thanks to Imped on Jeep Forum for the idea and some measurements and big thanks to a Fellow ADK Jeeps member for being a beast and working 7am-7pm on a Saturday to get both axles in and done along with a whole 4 link setup.

Seems to ride pretty nice so far (on the road), hard to tell with that cat only exhaust buzzing in my head.

8.8 ended up with Yukon Chromo kit in it, which I am stoked about. E-Locker will definitely be tested. Aussie up front so I am pulling the shafts out of my LP D30 for extra's.

Pics soon, I couldn't find my camera last night.

I do have this one I took with my Phone-


Notes from Install-
4.56's are comically short with the 32rh and KM2 32" tires. Need to score some 35's sooner than later.

Pushed the axle back as far as I can for now, truss/Solid cover is pretty close to factory gas tank skid, need to put on Savvy Gas tank skid I have and see what she looks like after for clearance.

Savvy arms are super pimping as is the track bar. Love the grease-able everything on the Savvy arms I got.

Poly Performance frame/control arm mounts were also very nice as was the MORE stuff (perches, shock mounts) I used.

Couldn't get the rear sway in it contacted the upper part of the 8.8 housing. Feels fine so far on the road... not sure what I am gonna do there.

Pulling the rear of the exhaust off made the header rub the UCF engine skid up front because it fell down little once the pressure of the exhaust/muffler was released. Looks like some skid grinding will fix it.

ECGS 8.8 Brake kit was short on one side with a hard line, would have prolly worked well without a truss, but it was a bit annoying. 3-4" extra would have done it. The stainless braided lines they provided were very nice and the e-brake kit was fine.

Neither the ECGS Stuff nor the reman calipers I bought had banjo bolts. I had one of the factory ones but not the other and apparently the 8.8 rear caliper banjo bolt is a dealer only part... so I need one of those.

I am not sure I would have used the Rock Krawler uppers had I to do all over as the adjustments are a bit of a pain as they thread in the same direction on both ends. I will probably max the uppers out and use the lowers for any fine tuning needed.


To Do list-
  • Figure out exactly what additional bump stoppage I need for now, I am thinking hockey pucks on lower mounts for now as they are cheap and adjustable. The M.O.R.E. perches have a nice centered nut for their spring retainers I can use.
  • Get drive shaft lengthened.
  • Recenter rear again, off a 1/4 inch or so right now.
  • Continue to adjust pinion angle (lengthen uppers- pending Savvy Tank Skid Install)
  • Wire Rear Locker up fully
  • Paint Belly/Engine Skids
  • Order/Install Muffler from Spintech
  • Alignment once I am happy the front axle is centered
  • After diff break in put on front HPD30 cover I have


Longer Term Left to do on project roughly in order-
  • 35's
  • Front Fender Solution (Metal cloaks or something)
  • Steering upgrade
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:59 AM   #2891
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Why did you go through all the hassle of swapping in a new front axle, only to keep the D30?
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:04 PM   #2892
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunks View Post
Here's the kit I used: http://www.roughcountry.com/jeep_xj_3.html

IIRC it was a 2.5" lift up front (coils) and 3" in the rear.
Gotcha.

Its a levelling/lift budget boost.

SO you had to disassemble your rear springs.

Lets start with the easy mistakes.

#1 Did you replace your u-bolts? Because if you re-used the originals its an accident waiting to happen. Spring u-bolts stretch and will keep stretching, and can usually only be torqued properly once. When putting new ones on, you need to hit all the nuts in a x pattern until all remain torqued.

#2 if you just put in an adda leaf you do not have (more than likely) spring shims, and you are experiencing harmonic vibrations. I would be surprised if you have some vibes now at launch in 1st gear. (from 0-2 mph)

Since you did not originally shim your rear springs you can lower your transfer case and you will notice some positive chages, but this will give you a 1-2 degree different in angle between your front and rear joints, which should be adjusted with a 1-2 degree shim so they match again.

If you do decide to use shims and a t-case drop, please make sure you get STEEL shims. The aluminum ones have a tendency to crack over time, come out, and then your rear axle comes off.

That being said, the less angle you have on your u-joints the better... and the right way to fix it is still getting a cv shaft and setting it all up properly.

Good Luck! (just spend the $300 on the shaft you will be happier in the long run )
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:15 PM   #2893
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Went wheeling yesterday with a couple of friends, I rode spotter in the Jeep.



















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Old 04-02-2012, 12:17 PM   #2894
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brutus76
Went wheeling yesterday with a couple of friends, I rode spotter in the Jeep.
Sweet rides!
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:24 PM   #2895
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Went wheeling yesterday with a couple of friends, I rode spotter in the Jeep.
Is that Reiter?
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:46 PM   #2896
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Originally Posted by Hurley959 View Post
Why did you go through all the hassle of swapping in a new front axle, only to keep the D30?
Cause I am not baller enough to afford a D44 front... I did this front for like $500 all in. Plus it's a high pinion so it's a little stronger.
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:34 PM   #2897
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OK I'm thinking about getting a spare vehicle for running to the beach, and since my son is turning 13 this month, perhaps a vehicle for him when he gets older. A good friend of mine has a nice little collection of 4WD beach cruisers and he's trying to thin the herd.

Two good options from him that are both very cool for very different reasons:



1979 CJ7 Renegade with 327c.i. Frame off restoration 6 years ago, engine rebuild (threw a rod when the oil pump failed) a few hundred miles ago. Further details incoming.

1967 Land Rover Series 2a Wagon. Also recent engine rebuild. Zero leaks. Full aluminum body in original paint and patina.

Anyone have any idea what these two vehicles might be worth. I'm totally clueless when it comes to this stuff. He is a good friend and I have no doubt he wouldn't be trying to screw me, but they are obviously older vehicles. If I do get one, I'm leaning towards the Renegade as it seems much more useful.
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:37 PM   #2898
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That Renegade is the isht!
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:44 PM   #2899
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When I was growing up my next door neighbor had a renegade exactly like that, except in doodoo brown. The land rover is pretty unique, but the jeep would be a better buy I think.
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:45 PM   #2900
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunks
When I was growing up my next door neighbor had a renegade exactly like that, except in doodoo brown. The land rover is pretty unique, but the jeep would be a better buy I think.
My thoughts exactly.
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Why all the bestiality and dehydration threads today??? Grap Off-Topic 15 01-11-2006 03:55 PM
this site is dwindling (aka: The piss and moan thread v.2) stevedood Bay Area Impreza Club Forum -- BAIC 59 04-01-2004 12:38 AM
A lazy monday thread...A continuation of the saturday and sunday thread DoctorNick Mid West Subaru Owners Club Forum -- MWSOC 9 09-10-2002 08:17 AM


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