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Old 05-18-2013, 09:49 PM   #4876
pdxsilverwrx
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Originally Posted by 4FishLimit View Post
www.fatbobsgarage.com

They have a good selection of budget boosts at decent prices. They're all really about the same lift (just urethane spacers that sit on top of the springs), its the quality of the shocks that you will really be paying for.

The other option is to just pick up the spacers and then source shocks seperately so you can pick the shocks you like.
Thanks, I appreciate it.
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Old 05-20-2013, 10:30 AM   #4877
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Originally Posted by Hurley959 View Post
Let's not get carried away with the claims .

That is interesting, though. Seems like you're going to have a minimal change in scrub radius unless you're making an enormous change in tire size or your SAI is high.
LOL. I tend not to post unless I know. Unless its just conversation.
I hate people the spread opinion as fact.

Generally the biggest issue comes in when its multiple changes stacked on top of eachother.

Like I lifted, realigned, got bigger tires, threw on offset.... etc etc... and then it gets to difficult to diagnose issues.

Most steering and ride issues are a combination of all of the above.
And most are easily controlled, with a little knowledge.

3 biggest problems onroad with an offroad vehicle are.

1. Improper landing for SAI.
2. Improper tire balance
3. Aligning to factory specs.

#2 is easy solve. What usually happens is people go offroading then hit the pavement with dirt stuck in their wheels/tread. They tear off small pieces of tire on obstacles. So tire balance is off, then tires quickly wear unevenly and its all downhill from there. Easy solution.. run Cetramatics or BB's. They self adjust and you never have this issue, and your tires last 3x longer.

#3 Just remember you need more caster when you get bigger/wider tires, and the value needs tinkering. On a 35" tire 3-6 degrees minimum, and this just increases more with larger tires.

#1 Set your vehicle at ride height with new tires, pop off the tire, run a laser to show the spot on the ground, and base your wheel selection on that. Then you can lift, and clearance to make the tires work.

I can drive my yj at 80+ mph with 1 thumb. It handles far better than factory, and I made the suspension/steering in its entirety in my shop.

People always forget the factory has a team of engineers to figure this stuff out, and just start slapping on mods. Engine work is easy. Suspension and steering takes LOTS of trial and error.
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Old 05-20-2013, 10:44 AM   #4878
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Originally Posted by 4FishLimit View Post
www.fatbobsgarage.com

They have a good selection of budget boosts at decent prices. They're all really about the same lift (just urethane spacers that sit on top of the springs), its the quality of the shocks that you will really be paying for.

The other option is to just pick up the spacers and then source shocks separately so you can pick the shocks you like.

So I looked at the spacer lifts and did not like the idea. Fat Bob has a spring and shock only lift that when you add the transfer case lowering bits is about $350.00 before shipping. Seems like a bargain until I found this
linkylinky
on Amazon. It is only $438 and I have prime so the shipping is free.
What do you guys think of this lift? Will it fit the 31's I have without rubbing? I bought some 15X8 wheels off another jeep so I can get rid of those ugly stockers.

Last edited by pdxsilverwrx; 05-20-2013 at 01:21 PM.
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Old 05-20-2013, 10:46 AM   #4879
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4FishLimit View Post
www.fatbobsgarage.com

They have a good selection of budget boosts at decent prices. They're all really about the same lift (just urethane spacers that sit on top of the springs), its the quality of the shocks that you will really be paying for.

The other option is to just pick up the spacers and then source shocks seperately so you can pick the shocks you like.
Spacer lifts are ... MEH...

Money is better spent getting tube fenders.

You can run 35's on a stock tj with MetalCloak stuff for example.
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Old 05-20-2013, 10:53 AM   #4880
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Originally Posted by The Phenx View Post
LOL. I tend not to post unless I know. Unless its just conversation.
I hate people the spread opinion as fact.

Generally the biggest issue comes in when its multiple changes stacked on top of eachother.

Like I lifted, realigned, got bigger tires, threw on offset.... etc etc... and then it gets to difficult to diagnose issues.

Most steering and ride issues are a combination of all of the above.
And most are easily controlled, with a little knowledge.

3 biggest problems onroad with an offroad vehicle are.

1. Improper landing for SAI.
2. Improper tire balance
3. Aligning to factory specs.

#2 is easy solve. What usually happens is people go offroading then hit the pavement with dirt stuck in their wheels/tread. They tear off small pieces of tire on obstacles. So tire balance is off, then tires quickly wear unevenly and its all downhill from there. Easy solution.. run Cetramatics or BB's. They self adjust and you never have this issue, and your tires last 3x longer.

#3 Just remember you need more caster when you get bigger/wider tires, and the value needs tinkering. On a 35" tire 3-6 degrees minimum, and this just increases more with larger tires.

#1 Set your vehicle at ride height with new tires, pop off the tire, run a laser to show the spot on the ground, and base your wheel selection on that. Then you can lift, and clearance to make the tires work.

I can drive my yj at 80+ mph with 1 thumb. It handles far better than factory, and I made the suspension/steering in its entirety in my shop.

People always forget the factory has a team of engineers to figure this stuff out, and just start slapping on mods. Engine work is easy. Suspension and steering takes LOTS of trial and error.
Is the more caster to counter act the + camber when the wheel is turned? I just noticed yesterday how much positive camber the outside wheel has when it's turned all the way.

Out of v curiosity what are you using the laser to measure or align? Confused on that one.
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Old 05-20-2013, 11:29 AM   #4881
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I HAD a spacer lift on my Tacoma. Tearing those off and putting on the Bilstein 5100s was the best investment into that truck yet
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Old 05-20-2013, 11:49 AM   #4882
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Originally Posted by bobturismo View Post
Is the more caster to counter act the + camber when the wheel is turned? I just noticed yesterday how much positive camber the outside wheel has when it's turned all the way.

Out of v curiosity what are you using the laser to measure or align? Confused on that one.
The Caster counteracts some of the camber but more importantly.. large wide tires tend to follow runs and road crowns fiercely.

Little more Caster creates a stronger return to center, which moves those 100lb shoes better, and it helps with your vehicle tracking and high speed stability.

You just have to do it within reason. 1-2 degree changes. Then test drive.

Ballpark is 33" 3-5 degrees 35-37"4-6 .. it is not magic tho... my YJ really liked 3.5 degrees. TJ's are easy with the alignment washers.


AS far as the laser... esentially you put your vehicle at what will be the ride height. (space under the axle tube is whats implortant) You run a laser on the line that your top and bottom ball joints make.

Look from the front. Then where that dot lands is where you want your tire to be centered at with the new offset on your new wheels.

So say your original wheels are 31" tall and running a 4.5" offset. And you go to 35". This raises up your axle 2". Say angle was 60 degrees the dot moves .5" toward the outside.. then your new offset should be 4" to keep similar to factory handling.

The hard part is balancing clearance... and geometry. Because all things being equal letting your tires rub your control arms is far worse than your steering being a lil twitchy.
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Old 05-20-2013, 11:53 AM   #4883
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Originally Posted by pdxsilverwrx View Post
So I looked at the spacer lifts and did not like the idea. Fat Bob has a spring and shock only lift that when you add the transfer case lowering bits is about $350.00 before shipping. Seems like a bargain until I found this linky on Amazon. It is only $438 and I have prome so the shipping is free.
What do you guys think of this lift? Will it fit the 31's I have without rubbing? I bought some 15X8 wheels off another jeep so I can get rid of those ugly stockers.
Rugged Ridge is junk.. but the thought is good. Keep shopping around. The better kit you get the happier you will be.

Tera Flex.. Currie... OME... stick with the better brands.
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Old 05-20-2013, 01:14 PM   #4884
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Rugged Ridge is junk.. but the thought is good. Keep shopping around. The better kit you get the happier you will be.

Tera Flex.. Currie... OME... stick with the better brands.
I am completely new to Jeeps. I do not know what the better brands are. I guess i want to know what makes that kit junk. I am not a serious wheeler. I just want a fun weekend toy that will clear the 31's that came on it, but those tires rub now. I saw a jeep with the stock size tires on it and hated the way it looked. I would like to keep the 31's on it and a little bit more ground clearance would be nice.

Last edited by pdxsilverwrx; 05-20-2013 at 01:36 PM.
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Old 05-20-2013, 05:37 PM   #4885
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Originally Posted by pdxsilverwrx View Post
So I looked at the spacer lifts and did not like the idea. Fat Bob has a spring and shock only lift that when you add the transfer case lowering bits is about $350.00 before shipping. Seems like a bargain until I found this linky on Amazon. It is only $438 and I have prime so the shipping is free.
What do you guys think of this lift? Will it fit the 31's I have without rubbing? I bought some 15X8 wheels off another jeep so I can get rid of those ugly stockers.
What concerns you about a budget boost? It's just a urethane spacer that sits between the frame of the vehicle and the spring. Not much to go wrong there.

As far as a full lift goes, with coil springs, you get what you pay for. I would recommend Iron Rock Offroad, Old Man Emu, Rubicon Express, Zone Offroad, or Rusty's before just about anything else.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Phenx View Post
Spacer lifts are ... MEH...
Right, I get that, but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxsilverwrx View Post
I am completely new to Jeeps. I do not know what the better brands are. I guess i want to know what makes that kit junk. I am not a serious wheeler. I just want a fun weekend toy that will clear the 31's that came on it, but those tires rub now. I saw a jeep with the stock size tires on it and hated the way it looked. I would like to keep the 31's on it and a little bit more ground clearance would be nice.
Given what the OP wants out of his rig, a 2" Budget Boost and a quality set of shocks, like Bilsteins, would be more than sufficient. If he wanted to throw a bit more money at his suspension and freshen it up a bit, then a lower height full lift kit like one from OME, IRO, or even Zone Offroad wouldn't be a bad investment.
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Old 05-21-2013, 02:02 PM   #4886
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Originally Posted by 4FishLimit View Post
Given what the OP wants out of his rig, a 2" Budget Boost and a quality set of shocks, like Bilsteins, would be more than sufficient. If he wanted to throw a bit more money at his suspension and freshen it up a bit, then a lower height full lift kit like one from OME, IRO, or even Zone Offroad wouldn't be a bad investment.
I only said Meh.. I didn't say horrible.

If it will never see offroad duty that is fine... prolly doesnt even need shocks.

The reason spacer lifts suck is the arms are stock... so as per other convos, all your ride geometry is off... pinion angles, steering values... etc.

Think of it like getting extended shackles... it works but is not ideal.
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Old 05-21-2013, 02:17 PM   #4887
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Originally Posted by The Phenx View Post
I only said Meh.. I didn't say horrible.

If it will never see offroad duty that is fine... prolly doesnt even need shocks.

The reason spacer lifts suck is the arms are stock... so as per other convos, all your ride geometry is off... pinion angles, steering values... etc.

Think of it like getting extended shackles... it works but is not ideal.
I never understood the purpose of lifting a Jeep with "just for looks" items. Like you said, it affects your steering, driveline, etc and for what purpose?
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Old 05-21-2013, 02:25 PM   #4888
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Originally Posted by pdxsilverwrx View Post
I am completely new to Jeeps. I do not know what the better brands are. I guess i want to know what makes that kit junk. I am not a serious wheeler. I just want a fun weekend toy that will clear the 31's that came on it, but those tires rub now. I saw a jeep with the stock size tires on it and hated the way it looked. I would like to keep the 31's on it and a little bit more ground clearance would be nice.
Ahh gotcha.

Rugged ridge is a junk company. Thier products have short lifespans, coatings are bad, so the paint flakes... etc etc...

Currie
Rubicon Express
TeraFlex
Old Man Emu
Big Dick Suspension (BDS)
SkyJacker

The main thing you want to look for is maintenance capable. When things move they get hot, when hot cools off it creates a vaccuum. So when your driving and you hit a water crossing, your joints all suck in water and dirt.

You want to make sure that at the end of your trip you can spend 5 min with a grease gun, purge everything, and keep your ride happy.

Aside from that its just features. But since your not goin crazy... no worries there.
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Old 05-21-2013, 02:57 PM   #4889
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Originally Posted by The Phenx View Post
Ahh gotcha.

Rugged ridge is a junk company. Thier products have short lifespans, coatings are bad, so the paint flakes... etc etc...

Currie
Rubicon Express
TeraFlex
Old Man Emu
Big Dick Suspension (BDS)
SkyJacker

The main thing you want to look for is maintenance capable. When things move they get hot, when hot cools off it creates a vaccuum. So when your driving and you hit a water crossing, your joints all suck in water and dirt.

You want to make sure that at the end of your trip you can spend 5 min with a grease gun, purge everything, and keep your ride happy.

Aside from that its just features. But since your not goin crazy... no worries there.
I'd add Rock Krawler and Metal Cloak to that list, and I'm not too sure about RE anymore...

They used to have real quality stuff and I used them on almost every build I ever did 10 years ago, but aren't they owned by pro comp now? And skyjacker? That's just funny.
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Old 05-21-2013, 05:39 PM   #4890
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I'd add Rock Krawler and Metal Cloak to that list, and I'm not too sure about RE anymore...

They used to have real quality stuff and I used them on almost every build I ever did 10 years ago, but aren't they owned by pro comp now? And skyjacker? That's just funny.
Metal Cloak is awesome but is prohibitively expensive, especially for a light duty wheeler. We are using a lof of thier stuff on the stretched tubed coilovered Samurai we are building.

Procomp and Skyjacker are fine. The engineering is solid, and they are the bottom tier of the consumer line of lifts. For a guy who just wants to run 31's and randomly hit a trail, I would consider them acceptable.

I looked at Rock Krawler. #1 they use Heim joints in their track bar on the 2.5" kit which SUCK. They are noisy and wear out fast as hell. #2 They use a K in their name cause its mad cool yo.
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Old 05-21-2013, 08:11 PM   #4891
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ohhh, expensive parts showed up for the fj40



14" king dual rate coilovers
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Old 05-21-2013, 08:20 PM   #4892
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Coilovers eh? Gonna join the stance and herrafrush crowd?


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Old 05-21-2013, 08:25 PM   #4893
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Coilovers eh? Gonna join the stance and herrafrush crowd?


yep, i tried tein but they didnt make shocks long enough
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:25 AM   #4894
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yep, i tried tein but they didnt make shocks long enough
AHHAHA... This made my morning brighter.
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:31 AM   #4895
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Originally Posted by The Phenx View Post
Metal Cloak is awesome but is prohibitively expensive, especially for a light duty wheeler. We are using a lof of thier stuff on the stretched tubed coilovered Samurai we are building.

Procomp and Skyjacker are fine. The engineering is solid, and they are the bottom tier of the consumer line of lifts. For a guy who just wants to run 31's and randomly hit a trail, I would consider them acceptable.

I looked at Rock Krawler. #1 they use Heim joints in their track bar on the 2.5" kit which SUCK. They are noisy and wear out fast as hell. #2 They use a K in their name cause its mad cool yo.
So am I wrong in thinking a spring and shock lift would be a better option than a spacer and shock lift?
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Old 05-22-2013, 12:33 PM   #4896
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So am I wrong in thinking a spring and shock lift would be a better option than a spacer and shock lift?
Nope.

Springs&Shocks&Control Arms > Spring & Shock > Spacer & Shock Avoid Heims. There are plenty of rebuildable joints that are of high quality that make these non necessary to use.

Stay 2.5" or lower or you will be in line for a whole A** ton of other mods.

The thing to pay attention to even with a 2.5" is you will need a longer/adjustable tack bar (panhard bar). This is necessary to keep the axle centered under the vehicle properly. So any kit you buy should include this.

DO NOT use a track bar relocation kit, unless you absolutely have to, and then make sure you match the drop with your pitman arm.

Drag link & Track bar should be same length & same angle or they will travel on conflicting arc's and you will get bump steer. So advice. Once you put track bar on, and go for your alignment have them center your axle under the vehicle, and then re-center your steering wheel accordingly. In that order, do not adjust before hand. Then have them set your Caster to approx 1 degree over stock (2.5-3 degree range), or at the high end of stock measurements. Toe and Camber can stay at stock values.
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Old 05-22-2013, 12:58 PM   #4897
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yep, i tried tein but they didnt make shocks long enough
Don't search for style masters, search for gravel masters, n00b
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Old 05-22-2013, 04:55 PM   #4898
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yep, i tried tein but they didnt make shocks long enough
This reminded me of a text I got from a friend the other day. Apparently the tire "stretch" look has been adopted by trucks in Louisiana.

[/url]
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Old 05-22-2013, 05:05 PM   #4899
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Nope.

Springs&Shocks&Control Arms > Spring & Shock > Spacer & Shock Avoid Heims. There are plenty of rebuildable joints that are of high quality that make these non necessary to use.

Stay 2.5" or lower or you will be in line for a whole A** ton of other mods.

The thing to pay attention to even with a 2.5" is you will need a longer/adjustable tack bar (panhard bar). This is necessary to keep the axle centered under the vehicle properly. So any kit you buy should include this.

DO NOT use a track bar relocation kit, unless you absolutely have to, and then make sure you match the drop with your pitman arm.

Drag link & Track bar should be same length & same angle or they will travel on conflicting arc's and you will get bump steer. So advice. Once you put track bar on, and go for your alignment have them center your axle under the vehicle, and then re-center your steering wheel accordingly. In that order, do not adjust before hand. Then have them set your Caster to approx 1 degree over stock (2.5-3 degree range), or at the high end of stock measurements. Toe and Camber can stay at stock values.
Thanks for the track bar and alignment advice
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Old 05-22-2013, 05:11 PM   #4900
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This reminded me of a text I got from a friend the other day. Apparently the tire "stretch" look has been adopted by trucks in Louisiana.
i also noticed that it was super popular in hawaii too. mostly toyotas and nissans with 33x10.5 tires on 15" wide rims
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