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Old 02-16-2009, 01:15 AM   #1
Dubstar112
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Default Searching for an approved method of auto x restraint

Hey guys, Im looking into the idea of trying to make me stay in my seat during autocross events a little better. Ive searched and I realize that harness bars have a hot debate around them. Are they infact suitable for autocross use?

Really what I am looking for is a solution for 06+ wrx which officially eliminates Schroth Quick fit solutions from the list. Is there a manufacturer of another belt product similar to the quick fit but for newer cars?.. Im looking for something DOT approved for peace of mind. There hasnt been a lot of reliable information on any thing DOT safe for 06+ cars.

I drive a 2007 sedan NOT the TR model, so I have the better seats to start with... but I am 6'5". Is it possible for the harness straps on such a quick fit type setup to go over my shoulders but NOT through the hole in the backrest, instead stratling the seat upright?

Does a solution exist? What do I need to look into?

Im going to be in street modified, and last year I was having to hold my self in position with my hands and the wheel. Not the best solution.
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Last edited by Dubstar112; 02-16-2009 at 01:45 AM.
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Old 02-16-2009, 02:32 AM   #2
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Have you looked at CG-lock? It only holds your lower body but still better than nothing.

http://www.cg-lock.com/

Another trick I use, which might not work for you, is to slide the seat back, yank on the shoulder strap causing it to lock then slide the seat forward to keep tension so it would stay locked.
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Old 02-16-2009, 05:24 AM   #3
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+1 on the CG-Lock. I used one at my last 2 autocross events and it really made a difference. Cheap step before going to a full harness/bar setup, and it is autocross legal. Not as supportive as a full harness, but it was worth the $ for me.
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Old 02-16-2009, 06:39 AM   #4
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The Quickfit doesn't work with the 06-07?? Weird. There shouldn't be anything majorly different in any parts of the interior from the 05.

Anyway, the basic Schroth Rallye3 or Rallye4 work great. I reccomend the 3, and anchoring the shoulder straps to the rear seatbelt reel (just behind the rear passenger shoulder.. probably accessable from the trunk in the sedan)

When not in use, the harness just stashes underneath the front seat.. with the only part visible being the 10" or so of the shoulder anchor. I've been doing this for 6 years and in 3 different vehicles (still haven't installed it into my STI.. but I will).
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Old 02-16-2009, 09:05 AM   #5
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The basic one will work, but when they come through the seat, the will contact your shoulders directly, not the seat then your shoulders. This is "ok" for autocross as the likelihood of a crash is remote and won't be a huge castatrophic event. For DD, this would be bad as street accidents are a lot less controlled and your spine would compress.
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Old 02-16-2009, 09:21 AM   #6
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Belts will not do much to keep you from moving laterally. That is the job of the seat. Stock seats just don't have the side bolsters to get it done. You can either go the way of a fixed back race seat or you can find a reclining 'race' seat. Until you upgrade the seat you'll always be bracing yourself to some level.
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Old 02-16-2009, 09:42 AM   #7
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I use the stock seat belt. I adjust the seat height lever lower than I want, then pull the belt tight and lock it. Now adjust the seat height to hold you. I usually give it an extra bump up as I am a couple of cars back from the start. I feel very secure that way and actually stopped using my 4-pt harness.
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Old 02-16-2009, 10:59 AM   #8
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I know some people use a "Turner strap," which is essentially a strip of velcro around the upper torso, holding you to the seat.

I'm not a fan of "no lateral movement," so I haven't used them. I have used the CG-lock (it's in my Camaro) though, to keep my butt planted.

Karen
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Old 02-16-2009, 12:13 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooleyjb View Post
Belts will not do much to keep you from moving laterally. That is the job of the seat. Stock seats just don't have the side bolsters to get it done. You can either go the way of a fixed back race seat or you can find a reclining 'race' seat. Until you upgrade the seat you'll always be bracing yourself to some level.
I use the schroth rallye 4 and when it's tight, I don't slide sideways at all or need bracing in the stock seats..
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Old 02-16-2009, 02:02 PM   #10
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+1 more for the CG Lock. I used one in my former '06 WRX and my current RX-8. It's great!
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Old 02-16-2009, 02:13 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechie3 View Post
I use the schroth rallye 4 and when it's tight, I don't slide sideways at all or need bracing in the stock seats..
Then you aren't turning hard enough. If you can show me how a traditional 4,5 or 6pt. harness can keep your entire body from moving laterally I'll buy you the harness of your choice.

A harness is really designed to hold you back against the seat. There is nothing that they do to really keep your upper body or legs in place during turns. They 'mostly' keep your hips in place but even then in a factory seat the lap belt still has to go out and down around the seat that the movement isn't entirely negated.
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Old 02-16-2009, 03:19 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooleyjb View Post
Then you aren't turning hard enough. If you can show me how a traditional 4,5 or 6pt. harness can keep your entire body from moving laterally I'll buy you the harness of your choice.

A harness is really designed to hold you back against the seat. There is nothing that they do to really keep your upper body or legs in place during turns. They 'mostly' keep your hips in place but even then in a factory seat the lap belt still has to go out and down around the seat that the movement isn't entirely negated.
if you're held against the seat tight enough, there will be too much friction to move you side to side. Press a book up against a wall and see if it falls. Its still seeing 1 g of acceleration with nothing stopping from sliding down besides friction. you aren't going to see much (if any) more than 1 g of side accel in a turn, so if you have a harness tight enough it can hold you in the seat restaining lateral acceleration.


now I would like a Black GForce 6-point pull-down camlock please
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Old 02-16-2009, 03:37 PM   #13
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another cg-lock supporter! really helped keep me planted, that way i could concentrate more on driving, than staying put!

and for $25 bucks you cant go wrong! im getting another one for the passenger seat soon!
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Old 02-16-2009, 03:44 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooleyjb View Post
Then you aren't turning hard enough.
que?! Tell that to my two wheels in the air



Same deal as the book on the wall. Our bolsters aren't huge, but they're there and, compress yourself against the seat enough so that you can't move and you're fine. Plus, if it's really tight, you can use the shoulder for the direction you're turning (ie, left shoulder if turning left) to push against the harness and hold yourself in.
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Old 02-16-2009, 03:50 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KAX View Post
if you're held against the seat tight enough, there will be too much friction to move you side to side. Press a book up against a wall and see if it falls. Its still seeing 1 g of acceleration with nothing stopping from sliding down besides friction. you aren't going to see much (if any) more than 1 g of side accel in a turn, so if you have a harness tight enough it can hold you in the seat restaining lateral acceleration.


now I would like a Black GForce 6-point pull-down camlock please
Too bad you're not right. You may 'think' you aren't moving around in the seat but you are.

The lateral force your body is going under at that 1G is pushing a couple of hundred pounds. Buckle yourself in and have a buddy push you sideways. Your body will move.

Here, watch Leh Keen at Watkins Glen. his car is seeing 1.3-1.5 g's sure but See how much his hard mounted seat is moving? You're body is moving some.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyM-egecTlw

There are reason people pay me hundreds of dollars to build them custom bead containment seats. Containing lateral movement is right at the top.

and Mechie3, if you are using the harness to brace yourself like that it means that you are moving around.

Last edited by cooleyjb; 02-16-2009 at 03:55 PM.
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Old 02-16-2009, 04:37 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechie3 View Post
I use the schroth rallye 4 and when it's tight, I don't slide sideways at all or need bracing in the stock seats..
I use a quickfit Schroth which is like a Rallye 4. It keeps my ass planted.

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Old 02-16-2009, 04:45 PM   #17
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The Quickfit doesn't work with the 06-07?? Weird. There shouldn't be anything majorly different in any parts of the interior from the 05.
thier website says directly not to use with any other year than 04 05.

Ill look into the CG lock and the rallye setups.
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Old 02-16-2009, 04:54 PM   #18
Dubstar112
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So it all comes down to the right seat for safety. I would think that having the right seat with the shoulder holes at a proper height... and the schroth rallye 4 harness I would be much better off. I remember seeing the name of a seat company who made seats for taller people while searching.. Ill have to do some digging.

Having a seat cushion in the back seat is pointless with two 6 footers in my car... lol
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Old 02-16-2009, 05:24 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by cooleyjb View Post
Too bad you're not right. You may 'think' you aren't moving around in the seat but you are.

The lateral force your body is going under at that 1G is pushing a couple of hundred pounds. Buckle yourself in and have a buddy push you sideways. Your body will move.
I guess I'm not trying to achieve complete, 100% lack of movement. As long as I don't feel any movement I won't be trying to brace myself and effecting control. Whether I'm actually moving a bit doesn't seem to matter.

With regard to the value of a racing seat, a high speed collision will result in WAY more Gs than cornering and that's where a racing seat really comes into its own. If I was subject to collision forces, I'm sure I'd slide out of the tightest stock belt/stock seat combo.
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Old 02-16-2009, 05:28 PM   #20
Dubstar112
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Well, I havent made my thoughts completely clear here either. I plan to run a few auto x events, and I want go to atleast one track day this year. I dont want to be the example of "you see this here folks, this is what is bad ".. So Im looking in to the schroth harness like Mechie has set up, and later on I will be upgrading my seats... if necessary.

Last edited by Dubstar112; 02-16-2009 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 02-17-2009, 08:33 AM   #21
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Before I put in a Schroth rallye-3 harness, I used to just do the ol':
1) slide seat back
2) cinch up lap belt
3) spin seat-belt latch a couple of times, insert into anchor (you're turning it like a wind-up peg in a wind-up toy)
4) 'lock' the shoulder belt with a firm tug, lean into it to keep tension.
5) scoot seat up to driving position, shoulder belt should stay locked if you did it right.

Number 3 was a tip a guy showed me on my 1st or 2nd autox. It may not work 100% as well as a cg-lock, but it costs -zero- and worked pretty well. A couple or three 'spins' keeps the belt from sliding back through the slot in the latch... especially when under tension from when you slide the seat forward into driving position.

meh... 'worked for me'... ymmv... worked better than doing nothing, that's for sure.

The harness works much better of course.
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Old 02-17-2009, 11:02 AM   #22
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Press a book up against a wall and see if it falls. Its still seeing 1 g of acceleration with nothing stopping from sliding down besides friction.
If the book isn't moving, there's no acceleration...
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Old 02-17-2009, 11:04 AM   #23
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Quickfits won't work with 06/07 because the size of the seatbelt receptacle changed. You could always buy seatbelts from an 04/05 and swap them if you really wanted to.
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Old 02-17-2009, 04:28 PM   #24
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Well, Im gonna go with the Rallye 4. It will work nicely if and when I decide to upgrade to some better buckets.. or atleast a taller drivers seat.
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Old 02-17-2009, 05:55 PM   #25
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Belts will not do much to keep you from moving laterally. That is the job of the seat...

Ding ding ding.

Forget the gimmicks. Spend the money on a nice seat.
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