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Old 02-17-2009, 12:11 AM   #1
apexslider
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Thumbs up New Tune, and loving it!

the bad news is my scanner took a dump, so I cant post my graph...

07 STi
stock motor
stock clutch
GT35R rotated kit (.63 ar)
FMIC
pump gas
Tuned at Surgeline Tuning

I asked Tim to make the tune real conservative, the car's my DD and I dont want to punish the stock internals too much. I asked Tim for 350 at the wheels, and he gave me 354whp and 344wtq at 20.5psi. Peak hp is about 6100rpm and peak tq is about 4360rpm. The afr averaged 11.9

The car drives better then it did stock and pulls all the way to redline. I couldn't be happier. I am going to have Tim raise the boost once a few changes are made to the setup and the speed density software is ready. I think I'll get closer to the 400whp mark at that point....maybe

As for now I'm stoked, the car pulls hard and is a blast to drive, but most important it is very civilized.

HUGE THANKS to Surgeline, they spent lots of time over the past few weeks answering my questions and getting me pointed in the right direction. Also Joey at Double J Motorwerks (non subie shop) for getting the turbo kit to fit...bolt on's never do.
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Old 02-17-2009, 12:15 AM   #2
06-wrx-tr
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congrats on the numbers!!! must pull very hard!!!
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Old 02-17-2009, 02:04 AM   #3
08EJ25
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Nice! Wish we had a good tuner like Tim in AK..
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Old 02-17-2009, 02:37 AM   #4
Boost_Creepin
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nice numbers
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Old 02-17-2009, 02:41 AM   #5
wikedcobra312
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nice numbers
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Old 02-17-2009, 06:25 AM   #6
ScooobaSeth
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average of 11.9? isnt that a little lean only on pump gas?

good numbers!
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Old 02-17-2009, 07:34 AM   #7
Badazzcr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScooobaSeth View Post
average of 11.9? isnt that a little lean only on pump gas?

good numbers!
The Mustang Dyno take the avg for the entire run. So that includes when coming into boost and the afr's are mid 13's
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Old 02-17-2009, 07:58 AM   #8
STi Mikey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScooobaSeth View Post
average of 11.9? isnt that a little lean only on pump gas?

good numbers!
Good numbers with so much more room to expand!!!

I know I do not see this often but on pump gas my AFR's are 12.1 to 1.
I was disturbed when I saw this on the dyno but the car seems to love it after 40k miles with the air/fuels in this state.

OP, is this your original motor and if so whats the milage. Seems you got a strong one!!

Congrats!!

Last edited by STi Mikey; 02-17-2009 at 09:23 AM.
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Old 02-17-2009, 09:39 AM   #9
SLOJOE
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wich 35r kit is this? nice #'s btw
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Old 02-17-2009, 10:38 AM   #10
apexslider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STi Mikey View Post
Good numbers with so much more room to expand!!!

I know I do not see this often but on pump gas my AFR's are 12.1 to 1.
I was disturbed when I saw this on the dyno but the car seems to love it after 40k miles with the air/fuels in this state.

OP, is this your original motor and if so whats the milage. Seems you got a strong one!!

Congrats!!
Yep, original motor. Has just over 18k on the clock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLOJOE View Post
wich 35r kit is this? nice #'s btw
Its the Perrin kit with a few minor mods done to it, mainly to the intake to support a recirc bpv and a larger MAF housing.
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Old 02-17-2009, 12:57 PM   #11
MattPersman
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awesome results, Tim is so darn good, miss him coming out here
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Old 02-17-2009, 02:40 PM   #12
cpturbo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badazzcr View Post
The Mustang Dyno take the avg for the entire run. So that includes when coming into boost and the afr's are mid 13's

Well, then. that figure is meaningless. I wouldn't want people to think 11.9 is ok on any pump gas (E85 would be the exception) .
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Old 02-17-2009, 04:05 PM   #13
n2oiroc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpturbo View Post
Well, then. that figure is meaningless. I wouldn't want people to think 11.9 is ok on any pump gas (E85 would be the exception) .
whats wrong with 11.9? a lot of guys run leaner.
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Old 02-17-2009, 04:26 PM   #14
Cobb Tuning
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Default Dyno Plots

We thought we would post up some plots from last night. The first plot is 15psi tapering up to 18psi and the second is ~20psi. AFR is the value on the right side of the graph.





Quote:
Originally Posted by ScooobaSeth View Post
average of 11.9? isnt that a little lean only on pump gas?

good numbers!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badazzcr View Post
The Mustang Dyno take the avg for the entire run. So that includes when coming into boost and the afr's are mid 13's
Quote:
Originally Posted by n2oiroc View Post
whats wrong with 11.9? a lot of guys run leaner.
As you can see in the above plot, AFRs at the tail pipe were 11.7s ramping to 11.5s at redline. Based on our measurements from tail pipe vs down pipe, this would be about 11.5 to 11.2 AFR.

You certainly can run 11.9 AFRs on pump fuel, but that would be on the lean side given the high air volume of the 35R. At high ambient temperatures that might become problematic.

It is equally important to not put too much regard into the exactness of the AFR measurements, especially at the tailpipe. There are some interesting variances I have measured over the years. Discussing .1 AFR differences in a non controlled test environment is fruitless.

Jeff

Last edited by Cobb Tuning; 02-17-2009 at 04:44 PM.
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Old 02-17-2009, 04:28 PM   #15
Iflysti06
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Nice hotside choice, the 3563r spool is soo amazing for a DD car!
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Old 02-17-2009, 04:58 PM   #16
Cobb Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n2oiroc View Post
whats wrong with 11.9? a lot of guys run leaner.
Every motor is a bit different. I tend to run motors with higher VE and less back pressure at leaner air to fuel ratio's. As a matter of process i always richen a tune to the point where i can see a power loss. Of course i'm also balancing power output with fuel, boost, ignition timing, and EGT. There is no point to running a leaner mixture or more timing than is needed. Longevity is enhanced when heat is reduced and this is a integration of all major aspects of engine control.

I love subaru's so don't get upset about the following.....

Subaru motors run rich compared to almost anything else out there because they are terribly inefficient. The required rich AF ratios are a function of overall poor VE and heat control. For example, any mitsubishi EVO motor is far far more efficient and that's the reason they run comparatively less ignition advance and much leaner AFs.

Tim

Last edited by Cobb Tuning; 02-17-2009 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 02-17-2009, 05:19 PM   #17
wrblueballs
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nice numbers left with a lot of wiggle room for the future
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Old 02-17-2009, 05:38 PM   #18
mxpunk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surgeline Tuning View Post
Every motor is a bit different. I tend to run motors with higher VE and less back pressure at leaner air to fuel ratio's. As a matter of process i always richen a tune to the point where i can see a power loss. Of course i'm also balancing power output with fuel, boost, ignition timing, and EGT. There is no point to running a leaner mixture or more timing than is needed. Longevity is enhanced when heat is reduced and this is a integration of all major aspects of engine control.

I love subaru's so don't get upset about the following.....

Subaru motors run rich compared to almost anything else out there because they are terribly inefficient. The required rich AF ratios are a function of overall poor VE and heat control. For example, any mitsubishi EVO motor is far far more efficient and that's the reason they run comparatively less ignition advance and much leaner AFs.

Tim
Calling Phatron..

So Mr.Bailey, is there anything out there yet to combat these issues?
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Old 02-17-2009, 05:45 PM   #19
Cobb Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxpunk View Post
Calling Phatron..

So Mr.Bailey, is there anything out there yet to combat these issues?
What specific issues are you refering to? how do we to make a subaru motor better?

Heads, cams, headers, intake manifold, turbo, etc etc etc.

Its impossible to get around the terribly innefficient design that splits airflow to two separate heads and puts the turbo several feet from the exhaust ports.

Tim -
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Old 02-17-2009, 05:49 PM   #20
modaddict
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpturbo View Post
I wouldn't want people to think 11.9 is ok on any pump gas (E85 would be the exception) .
Well, I guess my car is not OK.

at 40k, I'm hoping it will blow up soon......
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Old 02-17-2009, 06:31 PM   #21
stg2wgn
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nice numbers! tim did my tune for my stage 2+ wrx earlier that morning. combined we did over 600 hp that day. :]
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Old 02-17-2009, 06:48 PM   #22
cpturbo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modaddict View Post
Well, I guess my car is not OK.

at 40k, I'm hoping it will blow up soon......

You are the guy with the magic Crawford motor. I forgot. Running 11.9 on 91 octane California gas is like living on borrowed time. One bad batch of gas and it could be all over. One track day in hot weather and you will have problems. Really, how many people can honestly say I run at near 12:1 with Cali gas at anything but crossover into positive boost (<8lbs)? The Surgeline guys clarified the AFR discrepancy in an above post. Re-read it. They richen to about 11.2 in this particular case.

Last edited by cpturbo; 02-17-2009 at 06:54 PM.
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Old 02-17-2009, 06:52 PM   #23
n2oiroc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpturbo View Post
You are the guy with the magic Crawford motor. I forgot. Running 11.9 on 91 octane California gas is like living on borrowed time. One bad batch of gas and it could be all over. One track day in hot weather and you will have problems. Really, how many people can honestly say I run at near 12:1 with Cali gas?
pump was specified, not 91. some of us are lucky enough to get 93 or better.
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Old 02-17-2009, 06:57 PM   #24
cpturbo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n2oiroc View Post
pump was specified, not 91. some of us are lucky enough to get 93 or better.
While I neglected to mention 93, 100 (some do have this at the pump), I did mention E85 which is pump gas AFAIK. I'm not trying to start trouble. I am just pointing out that lean AFR are dangerous on inconsistently blended pump fuel, no matter what the min octane rating is.
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Old 02-17-2009, 10:40 PM   #25
modaddict
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpturbo View Post
You are the guy with the magic Crawford motor. I forgot. Running 11.9 on 91 octane California gas is like living on borrowed time.
Did you see to the left under my name?

I have a magic subaru OEM motor



amigo, I was on borrowed time 20,000 miles ago.

p.s, I'm still waiting to burn ANY oil at all in 3k miles. You'll be the first I PM when the stock motor lets go cause I ran 11.9:1 AFR on pump. BTW, how would you prove that?
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