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Old 02-17-2009, 09:34 PM   #1
oversteer
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Default WHO? 400whp on 91 pump no meth or H2O?

Let's see some 2.5L set ups that make a nice, streetable 400+whp on 91 octane without the aid of meth, H2O injection or E85. Just good 'ol boost, tuning, intercooling and a big turbo

How many can claim this number on a stock long block
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Old 02-17-2009, 10:19 PM   #2
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hard to do without meth, really only a 35r or somewhat equilvalent can get there on 91 with a pretty agressive tune.
im sure someone will claim it but not for too long.


what about teh NOS??
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Old 02-17-2009, 10:24 PM   #3
john 1badSTI
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with the right combo of parts with a good rotated 35r kit and ems it can be done no meth no problem.
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Old 02-17-2009, 10:30 PM   #4
team trucha racing
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my buddys car with a rotated 35r actually my exact same setup i bought from him but when he had his 35r stock block made 405whp on harman motives old dynojet on 91oct. i think somewhere around 24psi. before the motor blew he had an sz49 when car had 4k miles than the 35r for about 10k miles than went to the gt28 which i have now for about 2k miles than motor blew. so the car ran for a good while with a good tune.
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Old 02-17-2009, 10:35 PM   #5
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Not many as it is pretty hard to run an aggresive tune on 91 pump, the better the fuel or addition of methanol gives so much more octane and lowers the chances of detonation so much...400whp on stock block with ONLY 91 octane not a good combo....
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Old 02-17-2009, 11:05 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by team trucha racing View Post
my buddys car with a rotated 35r actually my exact same setup i bought from him but when he had his 35r stock block made 405whp on harman motives old dynojet on 91oct. i think somewhere around 24psi. before the motor blew he had an sz49 when car had 4k miles than the 35r for about 10k miles than went to the gt28 which i have now for about 2k miles than motor blew. so the car ran for a good while with a good tune.
why so many blown motors?
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Old 02-17-2009, 11:10 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDagen View Post
Not many as it is pretty hard to run an aggresive tune on 91 pump, the better the fuel or addition of methanol gives so much more octane and lowers the chances of detonation so much....
Well then.....350whp should be easy...right A good rotated GT30 kit can do that. Maybe somewhere under 400whp is the limit of a 2.5L on 91 octane, regardless of the turbo size. Besides a GT35 with a soft tune would suck to drive.
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Old 02-17-2009, 11:15 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oversteer View Post
Well then.....350whp should be easy...right A good rotated GT30 kit can do that. Maybe somewhere under 400whp is the limit of a 2.5L on 91 octane, regardless of the turbo size. Besides a GT35 with a soft tune would suck to drive.
no,, ford escorts "suck to drive".
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Old 02-17-2009, 11:16 PM   #9
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I have a theory that a GT30R could pull it off, just barely, with the usual mods plus cams and head work.

Might test that theory this summer. On 92 octane, though.
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Old 02-18-2009, 12:00 AM   #10
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There are a handful on pump gas and no meth, I see them from time to time in here...might be on 93 but I've definitely seen it done.
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Old 02-18-2009, 12:39 AM   #11
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got 392 ft lbs on pump 91... ATP GT3076R, Perrin TMIC, APS 70MM
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Old 02-18-2009, 03:21 AM   #12
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Was that mustang or dynojet? ^^^ would the ATP3071 be capible of an easy 350 mustang?
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Old 02-18-2009, 09:12 AM   #13
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it was dynojet. i dont know if the 3071 would make that much power. keep in mind most of my power comes from my AMR headers. I probably could have seen more with a bigger intake,FMIC, and finding out is wrong with this damn fuel issues.
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Old 02-18-2009, 09:47 AM   #14
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Me

40K miles, OEM, stock, original, factory, brittle pistons and all, engine.

<----------------
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Old 02-18-2009, 09:52 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oversteer View Post
Let's see some 2.5L set ups that make a nice, streetable 400+whp on 91 octane without the aid of meth, H2O injection or E85. Just good 'ol boost, tuning, intercooling and a big turbo

How many can claim this number on a stock long block
Just about 1 every day i make it down to the dyno to tell you the truth.
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Old 02-18-2009, 09:53 AM   #16
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^ fanboy
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Old 02-18-2009, 10:37 AM   #17
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I hope to be one of the ones in the 400/400 club on pump. I think I have all the necessary components.

PnP heads w/ ceramic coated CC
+1mm valves
Cosworth 275 Cams
Built bottom end
APS FMIC and everything intake related
GT Spec headers
Cat-less 3" all the way.

Car made 335whp/360ft-lbs with my 18G and a ****ty tune. I expect much better results with the 3076 and the new parts I have waiting to be installed. The next step will be:

ATP 3076 w/ Tial 44mm EWG
PnP intake manifold, coated
PnP TB, coated
PnP TGV's, coated
Aeromotive FPR and new rails
Full re-wrap of headers, uppipe, turbo blanket, DP wrap


Now all I need to do is get off my arse and install this stuff.
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Old 02-18-2009, 11:37 AM   #18
Phatron
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A quick estimation is to simply multiply the flow rate of the turbo by 10 and that will give you the crank hp capability based on how much air the turbo can flow.

Something i've noticed is that DynoJet's seem to read this crank hp # on race gas. The whp figure here is w/ 20% drivetrain loss.

I have indeed seen 400whp 18g's on dynojets and 500whp Green's on dynojets.

It really just depends on what whp you're shooting for. Cause several turbos can do it on dynojets, where as you will need at least a gt35 to do it on other dynos.

Code:
turbo	lb/min	hp(dj)	whp
18g	40	400	320
20g	44	440	352
3071	47	470	376
green	49	490	392
3076	52	520	416
gt35	62	620	496
gt40	80	800	640
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Old 02-18-2009, 12:47 PM   #19
TDagen
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But pump 91 is terrible, he didn't say 92 93, or race gas. Just 91 oct pump. Detonation factory....looks like kellygnsd has it covered, but on the stock block lol. I don't think 91 would be best option for 400whp long term, meth/water inj. is your friend if you just run 91...or even better E85...
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Old 02-18-2009, 12:48 PM   #20
STi Mikey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jays05 View Post
^ fanboy
JR FTMFW BRO
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Old 02-18-2009, 01:10 PM   #21
Phatron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDagen View Post
But pump 91 is terrible, he didn't say 92 93, or race gas. Just 91 oct pump. Detonation factory....looks like kellygnsd has it covered, but on the stock block lol. I don't think 91 would be best option for 400whp long term, meth/water inj. is your friend if you just run 91...or even better E85...
thats exactly why he's asking for 91 octane......cause its hard to do.

Its fairly simple with meth and or race gas and medium sized turbos. My FP Green did 375whp on 91+meth and 405whp on 95octane + meth and 425whp on 100oct+meth.
The 91+meth tune was on a DynoLog, then i calibrated Airboys road dyno to that. The 95 and 100 octane numbers are from the road dyno.

And like i said earlier, I've seen 400+whp 18g's on c16 on a dynojet.

400whp can mean many different things depending on where your dyno'd.

My vf34 wrx dyno'd 375whp at XS Engineering back in 2002-2003 on 91 octane.......2 weeks later on the same tune i dyno'd 205whp on Easystreets Dynolog (the same dynolog my 375whp Green was on).

The person asking for "teh fA3t3r3st 400whp yo" setup is usually the person that shouldnt be modding their car. We've all been there at some point.

The best thing to do is to talk to local shops and get whp to trap speed comparisons from customers and try and figure out where you wanna be. Gathering whp numbers from us over the internet from all different dynos and locations means absolutely nothing.

So i've had a

375 whp vf34 (91 octane, 18 psi)
375 whp FP Green (91 oct + meth, 26 psi)

which 375whp would you rather have?
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Old 02-18-2009, 01:28 PM   #22
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^lol great point. 400whp on a mustang is for real....
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Old 02-18-2009, 01:35 PM   #23
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Not much more to say after that^^^
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Old 02-18-2009, 02:25 PM   #24
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91 octane is a bummer, a real bummer, especially on a tough dyno. The fuel is the hang-up, and not so much the snail. Just one point can make pretty substantial difference. On a mustang up here, with 92 pump, we'll see 380ish with a GT3076 - down in California I think you'd be looking at closer to mid-350's.
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Old 02-18-2009, 02:36 PM   #25
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I have 400 to the wheels on my 91 pump map, I have 6 maps total on my AP v2.0 total but this is the most aggressive for 91 oct. its at 23psi from Jon @ HB Speed, car has a perrin 30r with supporting mods, completely stock block and 1st oem factory clutch, no sign of slip or a hint of smell, My C-16 map makes 485whp/497tq on 27psi , let me know if you have anymore questions, I'll post a link to my threads of : my dyno graph of this, my 1/4 slips, and my full mod list

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