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Old 02-17-2009, 11:28 PM   #1
JSarv
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Default Bosch 1000cc Injectors - Drop in?

Didn't really know where to go with this one, I'm out of Injectors with my modded stockers and found these through H-T (going to run them on my H22 Build)

Can these be made to work in a 2.0 top feed setup without major problems?!

I really hope so, because after some of the feedback posts from Honda Tuners they seem to be rock solid at idle and capable of 1600cc's with high FP...


-Jerod

oops I guess a link would help

Basically what I'm asking what is the body length of a stock wrx injector?? 60 or 48mm?

BOSCH 1000cc
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Old 02-19-2009, 03:29 PM   #2
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So since no one is interested...

Heres the deal. The bosch 1000's are High Impedance top feed injectors that have a very slow spray speed (better atomization).

They are released/paired in two ways - Not only are they flow matched they are also matched per Dead time/latency.

Tony at T1 Race Development is going to use a TGV housing DONATED by Justin at Grimmspeed!!!
THANKS JUSTIN!
And a stock fuel rail for fitment purposes.

Basically these injectors are becoming big in the Honda world and in the Supra world as they are capable of handing 100 psi of fuel pressure static without a single problem and in excess of 125psi of fuel pressure static + RR.

Tony explained to me that these injectors are simply hands down the best idling aftermarket injectors money can buy, infact they idle better than ALOT of stock injectors - Mostly because of their spray speed, but also how they are paired.

Price is good on them $460 retail for 4.

There is a thread somewhere of a stock block 103k mile TT Supra (single swapped) running 100psi static fuel pressure and making over 1300whp with these injectors...

I feel very confident that they will be a major upgrade over my modded stockers.

If there is any interest in these let me know and I'll see if I can get something worked out with Tony on a group buy.

The TGV will be here first of next week and will go out with my stock fuel rail as soon as it gets here for mockup purposes (Tony thinks it might be a drop in injector, but he will have to have seals for the injectors made/fitted)

-Jerod
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Old 02-19-2009, 03:55 PM   #3
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My local honda tuner shop has been raving about these injectors. So I'm interested.
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Old 02-19-2009, 03:58 PM   #4
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Alright..

Same here, my tuner in Chi town told me 4 times I need to run them on my H build...

-Jerod
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Old 02-19-2009, 04:13 PM   #5
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This has my attention...where can I find more info on the injectors...tried google but it didn't help much.
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Old 02-19-2009, 04:13 PM   #6
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From my local guys website.

Quote:
Originally Posted by synapseturbo.com
These are the only set of injectors you will ever need to buy. Whether all motor or turbo, with the control of these injectors you would think your tuning a stock set.

The new Bosch 1000cc Feature:

-They are a 48mm long body, shorter than normal injectors. The adaptor tops make them "normal" 60mm length and adapt them to 11mm (B series) or 14mm (K series) orings. The K series guys can run the injectors with no adaptors at all and they are the same length as the OEM rsx injectors so no spacers needed on the rail. These have a droplet size comparable to a 600cc Siemens injector and way better spray pattern and atomization than any other 1000cc injector on the market. The proper battery comp values are also provided with each set so you can set it up in your computer and have consistent a/f ratios as battery voltage fluctuates. Most other injectors don't offer that information at anything other than 1 voltage level.

-Price is per injector and includes the adaptor for the top and an injector clip with pins (order 4 if using on a B-Series or K-Series)

-High Impedance, no need for injector drivers or injector resistors

-High pressure capability, All injectors will run comfortably at 100psi above 10v, flow will be increased by approximately 50% at 100psi

-High duty cycle, with a recovery time of only 1ms, all injectors will run up to 92.5% duty cycle at 9k rpm and 95% duty cycle at 6k rpm while maintaining linearity within 1%

-Excellent low pulsewidth response, linearity within 2% all the way down to 2ms, predictable response down to 1.5ms. Using a 3 dimensional battery comp table with Motec V3 software, low pulsewidth response can be linearized to practically zero flow.

-Good atomization, Droplet size of the 1000cc injector is comparable to the Siemens Mototron 60lb injector, and is far better than the Multec 95lb, Standard Motor Products (RC) 1000cc and Siemens 72 and 83lb injectors.
-Excellent consistency, no sets will require more than a 1% trim

-Ruler flat response, unmatched linearity means easy tuning and accurate compensations.

Last edited by jays05; 02-19-2009 at 04:22 PM.
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Old 02-19-2009, 04:22 PM   #7
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these sound very interesting, there are a bunch of bosch injectors for sale on ebay under wrx parts.
well if my 800cc PE crap out ill give these a try

Last edited by tekfoc; 02-19-2009 at 04:27 PM.
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Old 02-19-2009, 04:23 PM   #8
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My link or his post...

I think there are going to have to be spacers made, but will find out from Tony next week. I'm sure if we can get a bunch of people or even a few on board things might be even a bit cheaper !

-Jerod

As a side note, these are not typical Bosch injectors from what Tony said. I think T1 Race Development is the only distributor for these injectors, but there are a few other places they wholesale to...
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Old 02-19-2009, 04:24 PM   #9
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Holy crap! I was just going to inquire about these.

My case is very different though; I was thinking about running them on a simple stage2 WRX (~250whp ish).

I talked a little with Tony1 via email, and the other reccomended action is to run 100psi rail pressure, which is quite a bit higher than usual. This is because atomization quality improves with fuel pressure, and atomization is what these injectors are all about basically. Running 1000cc injectors at 100psi requires serious fueling, so take that into account.

In theory, if these injectors perform the way they are advertised, you should be able to :
1. Run less rich in boost, since detonation will be less probable
2. Run more timing, for the same reason.

I am very eager to see a Subaru give these a try.
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Old 02-19-2009, 04:25 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSarv View Post
My link or his post...
Haha, I just realized, word for word, they are the same
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Old 02-19-2009, 04:25 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSarv View Post
My link or his post...

I think there are going to have to be spacers made, but will find out from Tony next week. I'm sure if we can get a bunch of people or even a few on board things might be even a bit cheaper !

-Jerod
Tony told me to send him a stock injector, and he would look into the physical differences. There is certainly enough business in the Subaru world that it would pay for them to have adapters made.
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Old 02-19-2009, 04:27 PM   #12
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Old 02-19-2009, 04:30 PM   #13
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Yea- I sent him pictures earlier. I'm just going to send him the tgv and rail so he can guarantee fitment or if any modifications are needed to the tgv or mounting (spacers)


-Jerod
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Old 02-19-2009, 04:35 PM   #14
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Too bad I didn't think of this, I could have test fitted these injectors in my car ~2 weeks ago.
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Old 02-19-2009, 04:38 PM   #15
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ugh! haha I could test fit them I guess but I'm not a machinist and don't know what to look for as far as fitment goes....

I figured i'd leave that up to the pros...

Plus Tony said spray angle and a bunch of other things will be important as well...

-Jerod
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Old 02-20-2009, 12:15 AM   #16
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Jerod, TGV was sent out today. Glad we could help this endeavor out

Justin
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Old 02-20-2009, 06:14 AM   #17
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drop in?

looks like a little elec harness plug swap.

factory injectors low impedence?
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Old 02-20-2009, 06:38 AM   #18
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I think quite a few people will be interested once we know the specifics. appreciate the efforts being made by people to have this looked into.
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Old 02-20-2009, 09:11 AM   #19
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I have an 07 STI with top feed perrin fuel rails. I used the 1000cc low impedence Precision injectors from my Civic. They fit fine and had to use the bottom o-rings and spacers from the integra to fit with the STI TGV. If the big bulky precisions will fit then the little bosch 1000cc injectors will fit!
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Old 02-20-2009, 10:15 AM   #20
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They are high impedance (saturated) exactly the same as the wrx/sti top feeds. NO resistor box required.

Just got done with a set of precision 880's and they suck as bad as modded stockers... All they are is rebadged lucas injectors.

Not hating as they do work, just have a rough inconsitent idle that can't be tuned out either....

That is why I'm going this route..

Basically if it goes as planned they will require a pigtail for the injector plugs (cut and splice) and that is it... Should be straight drop in's from there....

I have no problem cutting and soldering my harness for a good idle and injectors that are potentially good for 600whp on E85 and stable up to those flow ratings and VERY stable at idle.

hopefully things go smooth and we can get a group buy or something going on these


Thanks Justin! I really appreciate it and possibly alot of other people might as well.

-Jerod
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Old 02-20-2009, 10:23 AM   #21
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I like the look of these, it's a shame that they will require a new electrical clip. I already run my injectors at a far higher PSI but I wonder how these differ based on the fact that they promote you can run them at 100 psi if you wanted to?
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Old 02-20-2009, 03:08 PM   #22
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Supra 1000cc

Mick that link has some good info about the injectors.

Tony explained the "100+ psi" of fuel pressure thing but I didn't 100% understand, I don't think they are super abnormal other than the fact they do not leak at that static pressure and they continue to actually perform better as the pressure is increased (as most injectors do I think). But these are supposed to keep solid consistency and good atomization up that high as well.

?

-Jerod
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Old 02-20-2009, 03:44 PM   #23
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Yep, I saw that thread already, it's what I assumed as well.

My DW injectors work fine at higher fuel pressure but I had a PE fail which would have had something to do with the high fuel pressure. It forces the solenoid to work harder
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Old 02-20-2009, 03:49 PM   #24
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Well at higher fuel pressure the coil in the injector builds alot more heat, I can't explain it (I'm not smart ) but I understand it. Its a fluid dynamics/electrical thing. Higher FP = Higher Friction heat from the fuel, higher coil temps and better chance of failure... Plus spring pressure and overall design have alot to do with being able to run a high static fuel pressure safely?...?...

I think thats the best way.

Anyway, I'm pretty pumped about these, as I am picking up two sets at once, one for my H22 Boosted Civic build and one for my WRX. The H22 is going to be running E85 as well, but for now only about 10-12psi on a 60trim so I probably won't even get these things to sweat on either car even at 3bar fuel pressure.

-Jerod
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Old 02-20-2009, 10:07 PM   #25
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Here is a great link for these injectors:


http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2380150
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