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Old 02-15-2009, 07:01 PM   #1
Wreckleford
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Default Question on Subaru timing maps

I just pulled a ROM from a stock 2005 Spec C RA. In looking at the base timing map and the ignition correction map and adding them together, the map looks pretty strange compared to what I am used to (I normally work with Evos). For a given engine load, the timing doesn't progress smoothly, it goes up to peak at 6000rpm and drops back down again. This is not what I am used to seeing and goes against the theories I know about an engine's volumetric efficiency curve.

Looking at the ignition correction map, it looks very screwy with numbers that look almost random.

I just looked at a WRX ROM and the base timing map looks better (more like what I am used to) but the correction map looks just as screwy.

Seeing as these are factory maps, there must be some logic to this, so what am I overlooking?
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Old 02-15-2009, 10:17 PM   #2
the suicidal eggroll
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Part of it has to do with the VE "lumps" caused by the AVCS.
Usually when people do their own tuning they just rebuild the timing map from scratch using usual timing strategies (increasing with rpm, decreasing with load).
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Old 02-16-2009, 03:51 PM   #3
mickeyd2005
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I think it's AVCS related as well. Take a look at the stock JDM LGT (MY04+) which have dual AVCS.
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Old 02-16-2009, 05:02 PM   #4
elevenpoint7five
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even on my car without avcs the stock advance map confused the hell out of me. ive seen a lot of people just set the advance to a specific number across the board and be done with it. not sure how performance oriented that is, but its sure is less confusing! when i re-did my timing maps i did as eggroll said, the "normal" way that makes sense in everyones mind. it pulls great and i have no issues with it.
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Old 02-17-2009, 01:23 AM   #5
NSFW
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I've never looked at Evo timing, but it's my understanding that Subarus are much more prone to detonation than Evos, and I'd guess that would lead to very different timing maps.

Sorta related: http://www.romraider.com/forum/topic4377.html
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Old 02-17-2009, 05:15 AM   #6
paul_p1
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I noticed this on my Spec C ROM, there was a portion of the map above 6K in the high load areas where it went dipped massively. However, I found that the car wouldn't get to those cells on the road...
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Old 02-18-2009, 12:04 AM   #7
Wheeler Bement
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how does the timing look compaired to your current map? is it higher or lower? I have found the 06 WRX has tons more timing that the older 02...regardless of AVCS. but maybe the AVCS affects the overall timing more so than without it.
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Old 02-20-2009, 01:20 AM   #8
Wreckleford
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_p1 View Post
I noticed this on my Spec C ROM, there was a portion of the map above 6K in the high load areas where it went dipped massively. However, I found that the car wouldn't get to those cells on the road...
The advance map seems to be all over the place as well which is concening to me. Based on the load the car hits through the revrange the timing might be smoother though - I haven't really analysed the logs to see yet.

I will try to post a pic.
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Old 02-24-2009, 12:32 AM   #9
socalLGT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NSFW View Post
I've never looked at Evo timing, but it's my understanding that Subarus are much more prone to detonation than Evos, and I'd guess that would lead to very different timing maps.

Sorta related: http://www.romraider.com/forum/topic4377.html
Actually Evo's run much less timing than Subarus. On stock turbo Evo 9's that I tune on CA 91 octane, an average car will run 2-3* at peak torque/load which ramps to 11-13* by redline. That's less than half what an average stock turbo Subaru till take. Typically motors with a smaller bore and higher VE need less timing. Evo's have both a smaller bore and higher VE.

Oddly, the new Evo X has some similarly odd timing backward steps in timing in the stock map. As for why the stock timing maps are so all over the place your guess is as good as mine. I know that my timing maps don't look anything like the stock ones.
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Old 02-24-2009, 01:24 AM   #10
NSFW
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Interesting, thanks!
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Old 02-26-2009, 12:31 PM   #11
Shop7STi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socalLGT View Post
Actually Evo's run much less timing than Subarus. On stock turbo Evo 9's that I tune on CA 91 octane, an average car will run 2-3* at peak torque/load which ramps to 11-13* by redline. That's less than half what an average stock turbo Subaru till take. Typically motors with a smaller bore and higher VE need less timing. Evo's have both a smaller bore and higher VE.

Oddly, the new Evo X has some similarly odd timing backward steps in timing in the stock map. As for why the stock timing maps are so all over the place your guess is as good as mine. I know that my timing maps don't look anything like the stock ones.
I think it is most likely Subaru or Mitsu's attempt to make the car a little "tuned down" from the factory. AMS claims 40whp gains on just a reflash on the EVO X and I'm assuming they use a "normal" tuning approach as well.

http://www.amsperformance.com/cart/a...x-stage-0.html
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