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Old 02-25-2009, 12:05 AM   #1
Five-seveN
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More boost to come!

Impreza WRX TPG Tuning and the SBR 20G

Well, one thing I have to say about Nate and James is that they are EXTREMELY hard workers; furthermore, they're good! They knew that I had tight restrictions due to work and the lo0ng distance I had to drive to get there. So they wanted this to be a one day job, and thats exactly what we got with 5 hours to spare.
I came in with my Slowboy Racing 20G (7cm) turbo, FMIC, FIC 725cc fuel injectors, and a fuel pump.
After getting all of that stuff put on, Nate met me over at Wyotech (he's a performance instructor there) to put it on the dyno. Since I still have my stock clutch Nate only wanted to smooth out the AFRs and leave the boost low (15psi). He told me that if I eat all my brocolli and get a decent clutch, then he'll put it back on the dyno and start to work on the timing, so stay tuned! (I made a joke )

This is what went down.


This was the offender.


I had my doubts, but after hitting the dyno, they were quietly put at ease.




For anybody in the north eastern US that wants to tune a car, this is the guy i would reccomend. He had some of his students helping with the dyno (kinda like an after school project for them) and when serious enthusiast and well educated mechanics have this kinda respect for somebody, it speaks volumes.
He is just now getting his new shop up and running, but I predict that we (not just Sube, but import community) are going to be hearing from Nate and his crew alot in the future.
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Last edited by Five-seveN; 02-25-2009 at 09:10 PM.
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Old 02-25-2009, 12:06 AM   #2
Five-seveN
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More boost to come!

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And please, remember, that this is strait boost (low, 15psi), and no changes to timing YET. I just don't want somebody thinking that this is a crappy tune.




But does anybody want to take a stab at how much I WILL make with timing?

Last edited by Five-seveN; 02-25-2009 at 09:08 PM. Reason: fooooooooooool
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Old 02-25-2009, 12:26 AM   #3
SlowboyNRS
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Thanks for the kind words Brett, its was definetly a fun day!

There is more room to go with the setup, but we wanted to leave it a little conservative because of the clutch and drivetrain. This was just 15psi on spring pressure no boost control. I'd like to have the car back in a few weeks after the clutch install, 350-360whp shouldn't be a problem!

Nate
TPG Tuning
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Old 02-25-2009, 12:36 AM   #4
k04sti
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Wow that's awesome. Yea I would say about 350 whp.
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Old 02-25-2009, 02:37 AM   #5
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Not bad numbers for low boost.

Looks great.
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Old 02-25-2009, 10:26 AM   #6
Five-seveN
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Like i said in my first post, after looking at the turbo, i was very skeptical about this 20G. All the guys working the dyno were pretty certain that it would see 350 once i get a better clutch and the timing gets adjusted.

.....now where's that E85???
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Old 02-25-2009, 11:06 AM   #7
Paul
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makes decent power for amount of boost.

whats up with the dip from 3200-4200?
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Old 02-25-2009, 11:19 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Five-seveN View Post
But does anybody want to take a stab at how much I WILL make with timing?
Let me preface this with, I cant see your plots since they're blocked for me right now.

But your statements in the first post lead me to believe that he left your timing stock....is that true?

If so, he will need to remove timing, not add it when he ups the boost......especially at higher rpm.

For a 20g at 22psi tapering to 20psi.....running 12* of timing at peak load up to 20* at redline.....i'll give you

91 octane
300-320whp - mustang/dd
340-360whp - dynojet

93 octane
320-340whp - mustang/dd
360-380whp - dynojet
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Old 02-25-2009, 11:21 AM   #9
Temp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul View Post
makes decent power for amount of boost.

whats up with the dip from 3200-4200?
Might be a quick boost spike without aftermarket boost control and then settling back down.
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Old 02-25-2009, 01:12 PM   #10
Five-seveN
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More boost to come!

Impreza WRX

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul View Post
makes decent power for amount of boost.

whats up with the dip from 3200-4200?

My boost comes up to about 12psi at 3K rpm, then it settles, and then it starts to gain boost again, about 15psi. I can attribute this to the lack of boost controller atm, but this saturday we're gonna hook something up to clean up that and the boost at mid throttle.
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Old 02-25-2009, 01:18 PM   #11
MR@SBR
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Nate is a great dude!
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Old 02-25-2009, 03:59 PM   #12
Five-seveN
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More boost to come!

Impreza WRX

Quote:
Originally Posted by MR@SBR View Post
Nate is a great dude!

I totally agree! And the company he keeps (i.e. the guys working for him) are great guys too! James sat, cutting on my bumper, for hours to get it just right, and once i get the pics up, you'll understand. This car looks like it just has a factory mounted FMIC. My hat is off to these guys.
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Old 02-25-2009, 06:37 PM   #13
Built Industries
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR@SBR View Post
Nate is a great dude!
Is this the wrong place to say how sexy he is also?

If so - my apologies in advance.



Mike Huml
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Old 02-25-2009, 07:00 PM   #14
NSS
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Nice dude!
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Old 02-25-2009, 07:49 PM   #15
Five-seveN
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More boost to come!

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LOL Mike!
BTW, that's a nice little snail you have there, thanks!
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Old 02-25-2009, 08:59 PM   #16
sponaugle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Five-seveN View Post
After getting all of that stuff put on, Nate met me over at Wyotech (he's a performance instructor there) to put it on the dyno. Since I still have my stock clutch Nate only wanted to smooth out the AFRs and leave the boost low (15psi). He told me that if I eat all my brocolli and get a decent clutch, then he'll put it back on the dyno and start to advance the timing, so stay tuned! (I made a joke )
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
Let me preface this with, I cant see your plots since they're blocked for me right now.
But your statements in the first post lead me to believe that he left your timing stock....is that true?
If so, he will need to remove timing, not add it when he ups the boost......especially at higher rpm.
I am never quick to judge someone elses tune without serious analysis, but I have little trouble providing input based on a posters comments.

Your comment about 'advancing the timing' is concerning. I can only assume that it is a comment that you are making, not something your tuner actually said. Timing is not something you turn up like a wick. For a given condition there is an ideal timing that delivers the most torque. Part of tuning is identifing that value, and determining if the car can safely achieve it.

I would also assume that when the car was put on the dyno the timing was changed. 16psi with a 20G is much different then 16psi from the stock turbo. These are load based cars, so timing based on load would already be different, but that doesn't correlate well to the actual boost level.

Jeff
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Old 02-25-2009, 09:07 PM   #17
Five-seveN
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More boost to come!

Impreza WRX

Quote:
Originally Posted by sponaugle View Post
I am never quick to judge someone elses tune without serious analysis, but I have little trouble providing input based on a posters comments.

Your comment about 'advancing the timing' is concerning. I can only assume that it is a comment that you are making, not something your tuner actually said. Timing is not something you turn up like a wick. For a given condition there is an ideal timing that delivers the most torque. Part of tuning is identifing that value, and determining if the car can safely achieve it.

I would also assume that when the car was put on the dyno the timing was changed. 16psi with a 20G is much different then 16psi from the stock turbo. These are load based cars, so timing based on load would already be different, but that doesn't correlate well to the actual boost level.

Jeff

Well, first off, that's why i have a tuner. Cause I don't understand it, hell, i can hardly speak it, only thing i can really do is drive it.
And not to be rude, but you assumed and failed to read. I already stated like 10 times that the timing was not even touched. The boost is also being held down to 15psi until a new clutch goes on.

kthnxbi
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Old 02-25-2009, 09:07 PM   #18
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i wouldnt let anyone from west virgina tune my car, let alone touch it
maybe he meant adding timing after they put whiskey in the gas tank to improve the octane numbers..so they could hit 88 mph and jump start the flux capacitor


if you're going to get it retuned, why didnthe tuner just hook it up to the factory bcs and zero out the wgdc's until your ready to crank it up?
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Old 02-25-2009, 09:15 PM   #19
sponaugle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Five-seveN View Post
Well, first off, that's why i have a tuner. Cause I don't understand it, hell, i can hardly speak it, only thing i can really do is drive it.
And not to be rude, but you assumed and failed to read. I already stated like 10 times that the timing was not even touched. The boost is also being held down to 15psi until a new clutch goes on.

kthnxbi
No worries about being rude, as you are not. Discussing a tune is what this board is for. Good intelligent conversation is what we are all after.

As for the timing, that was precisely what both Phatron and I were saying. (Perhaps we were actually hinting at something else with a bit of subtle nudge) Leaving the timing stock at 16psi with a larger turbo is perhaps not what many tuners would do. While the boost is 'low', any tune should include at least a quick look and adjustment of the timing.

This is not a dig against Nate, as I do not know him or this tune. However it is important and helpful to have clarity in posts here. If someone else reads your post, they may be lead to believe that 'advancing the timing' is a valid tuning strategy.


Cheers,

Jeff Sponaugle
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Old 02-25-2009, 09:15 PM   #20
sponaugle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxpunk View Post
i wouldnt let anyone from west virgina tune my car, let alone touch it
While not well known, I was born in West Virginia.

Jeff Sponaugle
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Old 02-25-2009, 11:03 PM   #21
Five-seveN
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LOL, WV rocks. Yeah, after I was made aware, I corrected myself. If adjusting timing a little bit is a good thing, then i'm quite certain that he did it. The car didn't even feel this smooth when i came off the dealer's lot.
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Old 02-26-2009, 02:17 AM   #22
Phatron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Five-seveN View Post
And not to be rude, but you assumed and failed to read. I already stated like 10 times that the timing was not even touched.

kthnxbi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Five-seveN View Post
Yeah, after I was made aware, I corrected myself. If adjusting timing a little bit is a good thing, then i'm quite certain that he did it. The car didn't even feel this smooth when i came off the dealer's lot.
Just some advice for your future posts......dont say things about the tune if you're not sure. It can make your tuner "appear" in a bad light.

Your insistance that he didnt touch the timing is not a good thing at all.

If i were to have read that and stopped there, i would never go to that place to get tuned.

That being said, I dont believe he could have only tuned the AFR and not touched the timing. At 16 psi on the 20g you'd be riding the high load column probably the whole way to redline.....most likely the stock timing would be too much for a 20g. Theres probably a 0.0001% chance that the graph could be that smooth if he didnt touch the timing.

You're gonna be very very happy at 20+ psi.......then you're gonna want more more more.....
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Old 02-26-2009, 03:38 AM   #23
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I was thinking the same thing as Phatron and Sponaugle when I saw the OP's statement about timing not being touched. Hopefully we are talking about a conservative basemap being left alone, and not stock timing mapping being left alone. BTW, the dip at 3700 rpm is a knock event not a boost fluctuation. Boost fluctuations are wavy and more gradual looking. A knock event resulting in a timing pull will be a sharper drop which lasts for a few hundred rpms and then increments back up. You can clearly see the little trough that starts at roughly 3700 rpm and lasts till 4300 rpm at which point the curves return to their trend line. On a positive note, the spool up performance looks very good.
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Old 02-26-2009, 10:22 AM   #24
Five-seveN
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Then i retract all previous statements and issue this one:
Its good and real fast. (jk)

So can you please explain this knock event? Mongo no like knock.
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Old 02-26-2009, 12:14 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Five-seveN View Post
LOL Mike!
BTW, that's a nice little snail you have there, thanks!
Glad you like it - let me know the next time you are in the area, I will come down for the day for the next "tune up".

Nate is a great guy - he has to be or I would not let him touch my baby, let alone "gasp" drive it! (Still not sure if letting him drive will be a good idea or not, we will see soon!)

http://www.youtube.com/teamslowboy

Your next post will say -

Have car - goes like stink.

Then others will ask for details.

Now you give details (even if not perfect, no one is) and they want less details if you do not know what you are talking about... GEEZ...

Mike Huml
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