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Old 03-02-2009, 02:27 AM   #1
wrxkid157
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Default What do you guys think??

i want to switch out my old stock turbo and upgrade to a (Blouch TD05H-20G Turbo) what do you guys think??


link- http://www.perrinperformance.com/pro...ory=5&model=18
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Old 03-02-2009, 02:44 AM   #2
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its one sick turbo. ive drove a wrx with one and this turbo pulls hard!!
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Old 03-02-2009, 02:50 AM   #3
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good idea if you have the change. they seem to be great turbos for the 2.0L.

two things
FIRST: make your title more descriptive. its annoying to click on threads with no substance in the motorsports forum.
SECOND: please use the search button.
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Old 03-02-2009, 08:43 AM   #4
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Please post in the correct forum.
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Old 03-02-2009, 09:04 AM   #5
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i have a blouch 18g and my wagon pulls pretty fierce compared to stock. id imagine a 20g would pull alot harder
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Old 03-02-2009, 09:04 AM   #6
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Old 03-02-2009, 11:40 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxkid157 View Post
i want to switch out my old stock turbo and upgrade to a (Blouch TD05H-20G Turbo) what do you guys think??
i think your tranny will blow up soon after.....

20g is on the upper end of turbos that i'd recommend for a daily driver 2L.

If you switch directly from a td04 to a 20g you may hate the lag.

Try and find somone local that has a 2L 20g and take a ride or see if you can drive it to see if you like it.

You most likely wont hit peak boost/torque until 4500-5000rpm, depending on which 20g you get (td05, 7cm or td05, 8cm or td06 7cm or td06 8cm)
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Old 03-02-2009, 11:45 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
You most likely wont hit peak boost/torque until 4500-5000rpm, depending on which 20g you get (td05, 7cm or td05, 8cm or td06 7cm or td06 8cm)
WRONG. It'll spool very similar (maybe 300 rpms later) to a 18g if the tuner knows what he is doing.
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Old 03-02-2009, 11:47 AM   #9
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I think it's perfect!
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Old 03-02-2009, 12:00 PM   #10
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yes but buy it through blouch or a vendor on this forum and you'll get it for cheaper. I had this turbo on my lgt it was a rocket ship.
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Old 03-02-2009, 12:02 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolRex View Post
WRONG. It'll spool very similar (maybe 300 rpms later) to a 18g if the tuner knows what he is doing.
you dont count....your car is weird.

in the Tomei thread i posted links to 8 dyno sheets......2 of them hit peak boost in the 3000's, the other 6 were well well after 4000rpm....

Heres an 18g 2L.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrbwrx86 View Post
I got my car tuned last week at HB Speed. Jon did a great job.

My mods:
stock EJ205 w/ 62k miles
fp td05h-18g 7cm^2 w/ the exhaust inlet slightly ported
dw 650cc inj
accessport v2
3-port bcs
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helix catless dp (heatwrapped)
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perrin sri w/ k&n filter
ngk iridium 1 step colder plugs
cobb turbo heat shield

The car just pulls now!! And this is on crappy 91 ca gas



I'm thinking next step is ewg, exhaust cutout, and maybe meth. But before that it needs a 6spd swap
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Old 03-02-2009, 12:08 PM   #12
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I don't have a 20g dude. My 18g spools full boost 3700ish. And my car isn't weird.....I just know how to drive the thing balls to the wall.

Case in point....dude with 20g STi clocking 12.1's all day long and he said that is the best the car will do. Convinced him to let me drive it. 1st pass 11.8. Didn't want to push it anymore since it not my car and gave him back the keys and simply said "Car is hella fast.....practice makes better."
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Old 03-02-2009, 12:34 PM   #13
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What does driving have to do with peak boost?

And I dont recall saying you had a 20g.....the OP was talking about 20g's.....you posted something about an 18g....so i posted a dyno sheet of an 18g hitting pk torque at 4500 rpm on a 2L

anyway, the 18g in the plot above is more "normal" from what i've seen......looking at peak tq anyway.

You may be hitting peak boost before 4000rpm, but peak tq is after 4000. And if you plot the peak tq of teh 20g its gonna be closer to 5000rpm, which is my whole point of the 20g being on the end of the largest turbo i'd recommend for a 2L, especially a 2L with a 5 speed.

Unless he has FFS he will drop out of boost every shift.
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Old 03-02-2009, 04:08 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
What does driving have to do with peak boost?

And I dont recall saying you had a 20g.....the OP was talking about 20g's.....you posted something about an 18g....so i posted a dyno sheet of an 18g hitting pk torque at 4500 rpm on a 2L

anyway, the 18g in the plot above is more "normal" from what i've seen......looking at peak tq anyway.

You may be hitting peak boost before 4000rpm, but peak tq is after 4000. And if you plot the peak tq of teh 20g its gonna be closer to 5000rpm, which is my whole point of the 20g being on the end of the largest turbo i'd recommend for a 2L, especially a 2L with a 5 speed.

Unless he has FFS he will drop out of boost every shift.
My dyno sheet is at home so if I remember to bring it tomorrow I will scan it. It is not NEARLY as bad as you are making it sound. Peak torque may be as bad as you say in first gear, but it ends fast enough I couldn't care less. I would have to shift REALLY slow in order to completely fall out boost.

In addition it is not like the low end is completely unusable either. It's no autocross turbo, but it's more than enough to cruise around in. During normal driving I shift around 2.5 - 3k or so and I don't have a problem with it in the least.
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Old 03-02-2009, 04:54 PM   #15
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I dont have a problem with it......i have an HTA Green on my WRX. But its no where near "optimal" for a daily driver IMO.

Im not trying to make it "seem" one way or the other. I just posted a dynosheet from someone with a 18g'd 2L....and those are exactly what most of the 18g/20g plots look like. But again mitsu turbos can be setup in many different ways which all effect spool and powerband. But go search and come back with the majority of 20g'd 2L's hitting 20 psi in the 3500rpm range and then i'll agree with you. Until then i'll use my searching as reference which showed ~80%+ of them hitting peak tq by 4500rpm or later....

tdo5 vs td06
7cm vs 8cm
2.4" inlet vs 3" inlet
tmic vs fmic

not all "20g's" or "18g's" are the same.....there are many variations of each.

I just think the OP is gonna be surprised at the "lag" going from a td04 to a 20g and suggest he ride/drive a 20g'd 2L before deciding thats the way to go.

Last edited by Phatron; 03-02-2009 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 03-02-2009, 05:02 PM   #16
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Its such a cute little turbo
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Old 03-02-2009, 06:08 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
I dont have a problem with it......i have an HTA Green on my WRX. But its no where near "optimal" for a daily driver IMO.
I would argue the "optimal" turbo is completely subjective. My vision (could very well be wrong) of the "optimal turbo" is somewhat close to a bell curve with "Wish I had a V8" on the far left, "spool, spool, SPOOL!" on the left, "spool + good topend" in the middle, "great topend" off to the right and then you have the outliers of "once it gets there, you crap yourself!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
I just think the OP is gonna be surprised at the "lag" going from a td04 to a 20g and suggest he ride/drive a 20g'd 2L before deciding thats the way to go.
That is definitely a valid point and I know that isn't the first time you said it. It just struck me as your previous post seemed a bit like "the sky is falling!" when it comes to 20G's.

For what it is worth, I went straight from a td04 to my 2.4" inlet 7cm td05 20g with a tmic and I was pleasantly surprised at the lag versus what I was anticipating. I am not saying it is for everyone as it is quite a drastic difference but I lucked into finding exactly what I was looking for in the first turbo swap.
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Old 03-02-2009, 06:41 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RexFTW View Post
I would argue the "optimal" turbo is completely subjective. My vision (could very well be wrong) of the "optimal turbo" is somewhat close to a bell curve with "Wish I had a V8" on the far left, "spool, spool, SPOOL!" on the left, "spool + good topend" in the middle, "great topend" off to the right and then you have the outliers of "once it gets there, you crap yourself!"
my use of the word "optimal" for "daily driving" is more about leaving power on the table without doing other work. If you're rocking a td06 8cm 20g on a 2L, then you could be hitting peak power so late that you're not able to use the power the turbo can make past 7k without a valvetrain.
The dyno plot i posted of the 18g is hitting peak hp at 6500rpm, now imagine where a 20g will hit peak hp.

of course everyone has their version of optimal. i should have been more specific.

also, a 20g is less "optimal" than a 18g with regards to tranny life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RexFTW View Post
That is definitely a valid point and I know that isn't the first time you said it. It just struck me as your previous post seemed a bit like "the sky is falling!" when it comes to 20G's.
Not at all. Both my WRX and STi have turbos larger than a 20g....BUT BUT BUT BUT my WRX is a 2.2L AND it has an sti 6 speed. The 6 speed totally changes the driving experience. With the 5 Speed the rpm drop 3-4000rpm between shifts, with the 6 speed the drop is 2000-3000rpm....which is much better for staying "in boost" with larger turbos.


Anyway, all my comments are not against the 20g or big turbos. They are simply to make the OP think about what he really wants.

If he ends up with "laggy feeling" (compared to the td04) car with a broken tranny i dont want him to be surprised.
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Old 03-02-2009, 09:54 PM   #19
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Learn to drive and you won't break tranny's. 43k w/ over 300 for all of it. Still stock trans. Not my first AWD car though. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 03-02-2009, 10:48 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboWRX32 View Post
Learn to drive and you won't break tranny's. 43k w/ over 300 for all of it. Still stock trans. Not my first AWD car though. Just my 2 cents.
Agreed...
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Old 03-02-2009, 11:11 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by TurboWRX32 View Post
Learn to drive and you won't break tranny's. 43k w/ over 300 for all of it. Still stock trans. Not my first AWD car though. Just my 2 cents.
300 is not much, its >350 that it starts becoming an issue.
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Old 03-03-2009, 01:06 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by TurboWRX32 View Post
Learn to drive and you won't break tranny's. 43k w/ over 300 for all of it. Still stock trans. Not my first AWD car though. Just my 2 cents.
300 what?

crank hp?

whp?

dynojet hp?

I was unaware that peak hp was where the trannies broke?

How many of those 43k miles were at the drag strip? auto x? road racing?

We'll see how long she lasts on the borgwarner on race gas.....
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:47 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
my use of the word "optimal" for "daily driving" is more about leaving power on the table without doing other work. If you're rocking a td06 8cm 20g on a 2L, then you could be hitting peak power so late that you're not able to use the power the turbo can make past 7k without a valvetrain.
The dyno plot i posted of the 18g is hitting peak hp at 6500rpm, now imagine where a 20g will hit peak hp.

of course everyone has their version of optimal. i should have been more specific.

also, a 20g is less "optimal" than a 18g with regards to tranny life.


Not at all. Both my WRX and STi have turbos larger than a 20g....BUT BUT BUT BUT my WRX is a 2.2L AND it has an sti 6 speed. The 6 speed totally changes the driving experience. With the 5 Speed the rpm drop 3-4000rpm between shifts, with the 6 speed the drop is 2000-3000rpm....which is much better for staying "in boost" with larger turbos.


Anyway, all my comments are not against the 20g or big turbos. They are simply to make the OP think about what he really wants.

If he ends up with "laggy feeling" (compared to the td04) car with a broken tranny i dont want him to be surprised.
I could very well be wrong so please correct me, but I was under the impression that peak power and peak torque can be very misleading and hide the powerband. Your 18g graph is a good representation of that, peak torque occurs at 5500 rpm however the car is effectively at full torque at or just before 4500 rpm.

I put the 20G on after I had RA gears put in so I can't voice much of a valid opinion on driving impressions with the stock 5 speed other than to say mine broke at 247tq and would no way trust it at 280+ (I unless I was a CoolRex kind of driver (you always think you are until BOOM ). I can easily see where you are right that it would make a big difference in how the car drives with a larger turbo.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be argumentative. I am learning from someone who has more experience than myself and hopefully assisting the OP in information gathering at the same time.
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:58 PM   #24
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(I unless I was a CoolRex kind of driver (you always think you are until BOOM )
For the record my 5 speed went BOOM clack clack clack

Sporting a 07 STi 6 speed now....it just took 90+K miles and 500 launches for the 5 speed to give out.
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Old 03-03-2009, 01:22 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by RexFTW View Post
I could very well be wrong so please correct me, but I was under the impression that peak power and peak torque can be very misleading and hide the powerband. Your 18g graph is a good representation of that, peak torque occurs at 5500 rpm however the car is effectively at full torque at or just before 4500 rpm.
I dont really understand the "hiding the powerband" part.

Its a dyno chart, you can see the whole powerband.

Peak tq on this car is at 4500rpm. the dip after that is most likely just a small boost oscillation.

I can see what you're saying...the tq is 280 at 5500rpm but only 278 at 4500rpm.....however the point referenced as "peak tq" is most often the point of highest tq which occurs right after "peak boost". Peak tq usually lags peak boost by 300-500rpm.

i've never said the pk tq was at 5500rpm....i said it was at 4500rpm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
so i posted a dyno sheet of an 18g hitting pk torque at 4500 rpm on a 2L
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