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Old 04-10-2002, 12:45 PM   #1
adamsrs
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Exclamation PDE releasing FUEL RAILs to Rival Vishnu's!

I have been speaking with Ian at PDE www.pde-usa.com and he has informed me that they are about to release their fuel rail kit for the Impreza. They have done much R&D and you can be assured that there parts are the Creme of the crop! I just ordered an uppipe and downpipe from them to bolt into my WRX turbo converted RS. I urge you all to visit the site and take a look at what they have to offer! They are already making Uppipes, Downpipes, Turbo Timer HArnesses, and Midpipes for the WRX. THey will soon be releaseing their Fuel Rails, and a Turbo Kit for the 2.5 RS! The best part about PDE is their customer service! I spoke to IAN for about an hour an i can tell that he loves what he does! If you look in the Parts review forum you can see a review for his uppipe! Look at the welds and the craftsmanship! It is the best Ive seen! I will post further info as it is dictated to me!
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Old 04-10-2002, 02:06 PM   #2
8Complex

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Yeah, but their fuel rail design is a bit strange, IMO. I've seen stuff like that before in fluid applications, but never in a high flow situation (the plugs in the ends).
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Old 04-10-2002, 03:31 PM   #3
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what do you mean the plugs in the ends? Please explain.
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Old 04-10-2002, 05:47 PM   #4
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Huh? Plugs? I don't get it?

Hey Adamrs, did they give you any indications of the price of the fuel rails? And I assume they will be a parallel setup? How about if they come with an adjustable high flow regulator?
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Old 04-10-2002, 08:08 PM   #5
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My bad, I remembered the PSP's from this thread - http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthr...hreadid=163731

Are those PDE ones the cast/molded ones we saw drawings of ages ago? Just checked out their page (doh, sounded too prototype to be on the page before), they're cool and all. Hope they price the as low as they should be... I had been planning a full rail kit with regulator for about $325 before.
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Old 04-10-2002, 09:09 PM   #6
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It will be a billet parrallel setup. I will keep you posted on the price!
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Old 04-11-2002, 12:50 PM   #7
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ah, another parrell fuel rail design. Please keep me updated on this also!
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Old 04-11-2002, 01:44 PM   #8
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Here is a Solid Model picture from their website:

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Old 04-11-2002, 01:45 PM   #9
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Hopefully this kit will come with all the lines braided like the PSP's but instead of NPT fittings, i am going to try and talk him into AN screw on fittings. Seems a little more secure to leaks!
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Old 04-11-2002, 02:02 PM   #10
8Complex

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Nothing wrong with NPT fittings, they're just a little less pretty then Earl's AN fittings. They seal just fine, too... thats why they're pipe threads.

BTW, I need a real picture... I can model what is in that picture in < 3 minutes.
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Old 04-11-2002, 02:15 PM   #11
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I will post pictures as soon as they are available. I will be getting these rails too, so iwill do a review also. PS mine will probably be preproduction though!
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Old 04-15-2002, 07:01 PM   #12
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bump!
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Old 04-18-2002, 05:39 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by 8Complex
Nothing wrong with NPT fittings, they're just a little less pretty then Earl's AN fittings. They seal just fine, too... thats why they're pipe threads.

BTW, I need a real picture... I can model what is in that picture in < 3 minutes.
You don't think AN fittings are superior to tapered pipe?

NPT always seemed a bit strange to me because it relies on interference fit instead of a clamping fit. To get a good seal, the material needs to be permanently deformed (either that, or a lot of teflon!). With a proper clamping fit, you're relying on the elasticity of the material.

But then, I'm not a mechanical engineer. And I'm not trying to start a pointless argument -- honestly, I respect your opinion and I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from, NPT vs AN.

And also, I must admit, I have NPT fittings all over the place in my engine plumbing. Maybe they leak a little, but in general they're fine (don't try to take them apart if they're cranked down, though!).
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Old 04-18-2002, 05:43 PM   #14
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For most applications on a car AN fittings are overkill. BUT they are FAR easier to attatch two hoses together than NPTs are if you are in a tigh space! Also they look REALLY pretty! I mainly like them because of the ease of attatchment!
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Old 04-18-2002, 06:29 PM   #15
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the Dabbler - I never said they weren't superior, I was just defending the NPT ones.

Actually in reality, there are trade-offs between them. AN's are much more fragile and must be made to much tighter tolerances because of the design of it's seat. NPT is tougher, but it's a little less convienent for orientating fittings certain ways (AN are typically two piece and lends to easier aiming of where they go) and you have a lot harder time predicting exactly how far they will stick out/go in.
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Old 04-18-2002, 06:39 PM   #16
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That's true about NPT being simpler (and therefore more suited to a hack like me!). I don't know about tougher, though. Why do you say that?

Are you speaking from a manufacturer's perspective? If so, then I can see how NPT would be preferred in high volume applications.

But say, for a racecar, I can't see how you'd want anything other than AN. (and yes, I know we're not building racecars -- just speaking rhetorically here).
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Old 04-18-2002, 08:13 PM   #17
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Well... female AN fittings are put together out of 4 pieces - the female barb that fits into the hose, then the other half (sub-assembly, if you will) that is the AN threaded piece, the internal threaded piece, and the capture ring.

Now that capture ring is basically just an O-ring that is made of metal and press-fit into the other pieces of that sub-assembly. If you crank down too hard on that fitting... POP! That internal ring can break. I've had several break on me already.

NPT, on the other hand, you can thread in until it's tight... then if it's in the wrong position just keep tightening until it is in the right position because the brass flexes a bit. It's not recommended, but you can do it. I'm yet to actually see an NPT fitting break (though I'm sure they have on others).
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Old 04-19-2002, 12:57 PM   #18
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NPT also has the advantage of being much more common, in that even PepBoys or whatever would have a fairly good selection of adapters and weird fittings.

AN is (at least around here) usually only available at specialty shops, and just try to find BSP hardware! (Actually, NPT seems close enough to BSP that it doesn't matter in most cases, and it's being crushed down to an interference fit anyway...)

Plumbing and mechanical stuff is so interesting. Makes me wonder why I went into electronics.
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Old 04-19-2002, 01:51 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by the Dabbler
Plumbing and mechanical stuff is so interesting. Makes me wonder why I went into electronics.
They're actually very similar fields, though electrical is a little bit more like programming then mechanical assembly/design. I'm actually opposite... mechanical and interested in electronics. I can't fathom (sp) how much info you'd have to remember to design decent circuits, though.
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Old 04-19-2002, 02:19 PM   #20
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Hi all,

The fuel rail design has a female NPT thread in each end of the rail, our intention being that an AN fitting with a NPT thread on the other end can be fitted into the fuel rail to create a fuel system with AN fittings under the hood. A separate fuel preassure regulator mount will be offered as an option, as will an AN fuel line kit. I guess if any of you didn't want to go the AN route, you could adapt any type of fitting you wish as long as you start with the NPT fitting at the fuel rail.
More details will follow as we get closer to production, we've been a little slow moving on this product, the shop has about a six month backlog for prototyping new products, so bear with us!
This one should be out in a few months after we've had a few on test cars for a while etc.
It looks like we are going to go ahead with our 2.5RS supercharger kit, so these will be a part of that kit too.

Regards,

Ian Stewart.
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Old 04-19-2002, 02:50 PM   #21
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Super Charger Kit????????!!!!!!

Does this mean that there are now 3 kits in the works? If so, "Oh happy days"!
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Old 04-19-2002, 03:29 PM   #22
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Hi again,

Maybe I should have said 2.5RS / Legacy / Baja supercharger kit, as it is our intention to cover all of these models.
The supercharger kit is the primary focus for developing the fuel rail system, although obviously it will be available separatly.
If you check out www.Z-EngineeringUSA.com you can see many of the supercharger kits previously developed by PDE Inc. Nearly all of the kits for this international company have been prototyped by PDE Inc. The Mazda Miata MX5, VW Golf MKIII 2.0, and VW Jetta MKIV VR6 are good examples. We have also developed kits for the Lexus GS 400, Ford Focus, among others, and currently have in development a supercharger kit for the Cadillac sedans with the Northstar engine. This has been slowing our Subaru product development, but the Cadillac kit is getting close so we will be back into full speed with the Subaru products shortly.
Sorry to run off topic...

Regards,

Ian Stewart
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Old 04-20-2002, 12:14 AM   #23
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helping to hijack the thread even more:

Any LOOSE ETA for the S/C kit? like Fall? Summer? next Winter?

just currious, I like the design, and the implementation of your kits, and think it would be a pretty slick way to go about AFI on a sleeper car.
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Old 04-20-2002, 01:33 AM   #24
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So, does this mean that Garrett Lim will be doing some Subaru ECU re-programming to go with your kit? If anyone can crack the Impreza ECU, he can!
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Old 04-20-2002, 10:22 PM   #25
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PDE, please post a pic of an AN fuel line kit when you get it finished. Also, will there be a color choice for the rails? I like expensive parts to be colorful.
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