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Old 02-23-2009, 11:53 AM   #1
luka
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Default Complete Power Loss Under Load

What: Under WOT/boost/load usually around 3000rpm I have a complete electrical power loss to the motor. the "Anti-lock" brake, engine over heat lights turn on, and I can hear a relay clicking from the dash (on the right hand side). Once the rpms drop to ~2700-2800 the power will come back on, I will get a few more sparks, hit 3000rpm and repeat.

idles great and I'm able to rev to redline as long as the load is low.

All other accessories (heater, lights, radio, etc) are not effected.

Background: 1993 Impreza WRX JDM, stock EJ20G motor, only mod is '02 WRX coil conversion.

My current stategy is to start unplugging sensors one at a time until something changes. But I'm curious has anyone experienced something similar? maybe during a swap or the coil conversion? Or does anyone have any other suggestions/strategies to find the problem?

Thanks guys,
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Old 02-23-2009, 02:37 PM   #2
rob
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Did it run like this before the coil conversion?
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Old 02-23-2009, 03:50 PM   #3
luka
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yeah but it was less violent and the dash lights/relay didn't go bonkers. before it would badly misfire (hence the coil conversion)

all I can think of is that once the coils start demanding more power it drains everything.

the coils are good and I wired them up right (I check everything over with a multimeter at least 10-15 times before I started the car for the first time) so I don't think that's the problem as I am able to rev to the limit and idle is solid. The ignitor is bypassed so that's not it.

I unno, heh, this is so ghetto. I got a scoobie not an audi/wv
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Old 02-24-2009, 08:10 PM   #4
luka
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if you're looking at the motor from the front -- what's the huge sensor to the right of the throttle body attached to the intake manifold? I'm assuming it's the MAP sensor?

Well anyway, that's what is causing all my problems, the second I unplugged it, it idles like crap (runs pretty crappy), but it boosts to about .5bar and doesn't die anymore so I'm going to start by replacing it.

is it the same as the US '02+ sensor? (whatever it is)
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Old 02-24-2009, 08:45 PM   #5
Matt Monson
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That's your idle air control. It's unique to the EJ20G engine.
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Old 02-24-2009, 09:10 PM   #6
luka
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haha... great, just great.

what are my options?
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Old 02-24-2009, 11:00 PM   #7
rockcrete
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Check your computer for trouble codes and post them.

There are two little black plugs under your dash by the steering column, plug them together and turn your key to on (don't start the motor) and see what you get.

Boost leak will cause similar problems, but not your dash lights.

Dirty or bad maf will do the same thing.
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Old 02-25-2009, 07:21 AM   #8
luka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockcrete View Post
Check your computer for trouble codes and post them.

There are two little black plugs under your dash by the steering column, plug them together and turn your key to on (don't start the motor) and see what you get.

Boost leak will cause similar problems, but not your dash lights.

Dirty or bad maf will do the same thing.

Rockcrete many thanks for the advice, I will definitely look into the MAF and check for error codes after work. In the event it is an MAF issue -- is the MAF unique to the EJ20G or are upgrade/conversion/replacement options available?
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Old 02-25-2009, 09:02 AM   #9
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blah, on my ride to work I noticed that the relay (whatever is around the steering column, RHD) still keeps flickering on/off under load and the car drives like poo. At least it's not a violent stutter and warning lights don't flicker anymore.

I guess that progress? haha
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Old 02-25-2009, 10:16 AM   #10
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Weird. I have a TPS code and if I reset the ECU it goes away for a bit then comes back on and I hear clicking under the dash for a bit when the engine lights comes on and the idle will stumble.
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Old 02-25-2009, 10:53 AM   #11
luka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper512 View Post
Weird. I have a TPS code and if I reset the ECU it goes away for a bit then comes back on and I hear clicking under the dash for a bit when the engine lights comes on and the idle will stumble.
Sniper you're experiencing something similar?

I pulled the battery thinking maybe it needs a degauss and the first pull went really smooth but after it went back to same ol'.

I guess it's all speculation until I check the codes but I don't have a check engine light when the IAC is plugged in.

I'm starting to think that maybe my violent stutter was the IAC opening up and effectively creating a massive boost leak when the power went out and with it not plugged it stays opened and just leaks all the time? -- does that make any sense or am I thinking too far out of the box? :P
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Old 02-25-2009, 12:39 PM   #12
sniper512
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Just the clicking part you experienced. Mine is just power loss not electrical power.

The IAC in my car when unplugged makes the car idle up to like 2000rpm and throw a cel which is normal. If yours isn't doing this then that may be the problem, but if your boosting to .5 then it could just be throwing your car into limp mode and that's the reason it run without stalling because its in closed loop?
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Old 02-25-2009, 04:00 PM   #13
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They use Nissan MAF's, offhand, I think it may be the same one as an RB20.

Your IAC either works or doesn't which wil give you either low or high idle and nothing else.

Use the service manual and check and reset your TPS. If it's out of whack, your car won't run good.

I think you both have different problems, though.
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Old 02-25-2009, 04:05 PM   #14
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The MAF is the same as every other JECs Subaru MAF used from 1993-1998. The part number ends in AA160. No need to look at other brands for MAFs. Most people doing a swap will have a spare because it was their stock MAF and they got one with their swap.
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Old 02-25-2009, 04:29 PM   #15
rockcrete
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
The MAF is the same as every other JECs Subaru MAF used from 1993-1998. The part number ends in AA160. No need to look at other brands for MAFs. Most people doing a swap will have a spare because it was their stock MAF and they got one with their swap.
We all have imported JDM WRX's so no spare MAF's lying around and Subaru ones don't exactly grow on trees around here.......

If my memory is right, it's a green label 80mm one which is what is on the RB20 Skylines - the part number should verify it. I only have VG30 and RB26 ones lying around here, so I can't check for sure.
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Old 02-25-2009, 05:21 PM   #16
luka
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so I checked the codes.

I'm flashing 24, and from a legacy forum I got the following:

24
Air control valve
Air control valve inoperative (Abnormal signal produced in monitor circuit)
Prevents abnormal engine speed using "fuel cut" in relation to engine speed, vehicle speed, and throttle sensor position

Is this the Idle air control valve that's located to the right of the throttle body I asked about earlier?
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Old 02-25-2009, 05:45 PM   #17
rockcrete
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Go to page 44 of the diagnostics section here http://www.saxonfields.freeserve.co.uk/

Go to Scooby Page and then workshop manuals, etc.........
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Old 02-25-2009, 07:29 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockcrete View Post
We all have imported JDM WRX's so no spare MAF's lying around and Subaru ones don't exactly grow on trees around here........
You don't have any Subarus in junkyards up there in BC? I find that a little hard to believe because I know a bunch of guys in the Vancouver area from Legacy Central, and they seem to have very little problems finding parts for their cars.

Regardless, if it's really that hard to come by I've got a pile of them. And by pile I mean like half a dozen or more. And my shop is 1/4 mi from a Subaru dismantler. In anyone ever needs one, please drop me a line. I usually charge like $20 shipped for them, maybe $10 more up to Canada. They are definitely not a rare part and definitely not unique to Ej20G WRX's.
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Old 02-25-2009, 07:43 PM   #19
rockcrete
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
You don't have any Subarus in junkyards up there in BC? I find that a little hard to believe because I know a bunch of guys in the Vancouver area from Legacy Central, and they seem to have very little problems finding parts for their cars.

Regardless, if it's really that hard to come by I've got a pile of them. And by pile I mean like half a dozen or more. And my shop is 1/4 mi from a Subaru dismantler. In anyone ever needs one, please drop me a line. I usually charge like $20 shipped for them, maybe $10 more up to Canada. They are definitely not a rare part and definitely not unique to Ej20G WRX's.
I've never really looked (I've only owned a Subaru for 3 months) - I've also never laid my mitts on a domestic market Subaru, but I've been around Skylines for a long time and there are plenty of RB20 mafs floating around..........
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Old 02-25-2009, 08:10 PM   #20
luka
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So an update... not the best.

I ran in d-check mode and got the the OK code. what caused my 24 code was me unplugging the IACV. but now I'm not showing any codes and still have this ridiculous fuel/power cut.

so it's not the IACV, ECU is happy, maybe it's the plugs? I got v-power NGKs. brand new.
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Old 02-25-2009, 09:03 PM   #21
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Gap? Did you inspect your coils when you changed the plugs?
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Old 02-25-2009, 09:04 PM   #22
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Did you guys install used ignition coils by any chance?

If you did, ever stop and think why the guy you bought them from was selling them?
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Old 02-25-2009, 09:27 PM   #23
luka
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coil resistance was good...

and I got them off of beaviscih who has 64 positive (100%) feedback so I figure they work :/

I have a buddy with an '02 WRX but I'd hate to have to take his car apart.
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Old 02-25-2009, 10:05 PM   #24
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Problems like yours are why I bought brand new JDM coilpacks......

Check your fuel injectors too. Make sure ALL of them are working and that the screens aren't plugged. Also, fuel filter and fuel pressure.
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Old 02-25-2009, 10:20 PM   #25
luka
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so I went for another run... I was flashing OK code for a bit and then I went into boost to trigger the flickering and I started throwing 12 -- "Starter switch or circuit".

I'm at a buddies so I can't check the procedure I'll give it a go tomorrow.

maybe I should just go sti swap? :P
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