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Old 06-05-2008, 08:14 AM   #1
STIKindaGUY
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Default 06 STi Swap into 05 RS. Help me with my grey areas please.

So were putting in a 2006 sti motor into a 2005 2.5rs. For the swap we have (all off the 06 sti)

Complete Motor/Turbo
Full Uncut Harness
ECU
Immobilizer
Steering Colum
Pedal Assembly
Motor Mounts
CrossMember with Steering Rack
Gas Tank Sensor

Now, Due to money issues were using the stock 2.5rs tranny and drivetrain. First i want to say DONT lecture me on this about power/strenght, or should i say lack of strenght. I KNOW. the motor in the rs blew, this is a daily driver, we need this car back on the road ASAP, the sti swap was just way to good of a deal to pass up, and honestly pretty much a cheaper rout to go.

So these are my main concerns.

We didnt get keys with the swap. So obviously the car isnt gonna start. IVe heard someone has found away to disable the imobilizer now days. is this true and does anyone know? the only way i know of is to go 04 sti ecu, which is flat out, out of the question right now. So is there any other way to disable it? Cuz ive heard rumors, now that i already got the swap of course, that dealerships wont touch a swapped car like this and give us a new set of reprogrammed keys. i think i have a hook up at a suby dealer that could get me around this if thats the case. but its about 90 miles down the freeway. not exactly an easy drive with a suby that wont run. So any bright ideas to solve our imobilizer issue? without spending a ton of money. were flat out maxed on money right now and still havnt even got a new clutch, or front mount intercooler yet.

2nd the 06s started getting so freaking fancy with the wiring i cant hardly keep up on all the new technology, theres not gonna be something in the ecu thats going to be upset cuz were using a 5spd tranny and not the 06 correct? Pretty positive we will be fine, but knowing my luck, theres gonna be something crazy on that year thats going to screw us.

an my last question is again about the imobilizer system. It consist of a box (the imobilizer), the ecu, the key, and the anntenna, which ive also heard called the key ring... what exactly is this? Is it located on the steering colum im assuming?

Pretty sure ive got everything else under control, But if anyone can think of something else thats going to pop up as a problem during this swap, or is going to need some attention, please bring it to mine. i tend to forget things, and i want to solve as many problems or be prepared for them as early as possible, gotta get this car back on the road asap. Thanks for the help in advance.
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Old 06-05-2008, 06:01 PM   #2
ciper
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Regarding Immobilizer -
I searched high/low and in between. From my exhaustive research which included talking to many Subaru specialists IRL there are only three ways to "bypass" the immobilizer -

1. Switch five or six wires on the ECU plug and use an 04 ECU
2a. Find somoene with a select monitor that can program a new key to the immobilizer box
2b. Find a matched set of immobilizer box and keys and then have the guy with the select monitor program it to your ECU

The ECU trusts the immobilizer black box and knows nothing of the keys. The immobilizer trusts the keys and doesn't care what ECU its talking to. There is also a timeout period for the authorized/blocked starting is in effect. Basically you can start the car, get rid of the key, and within a certain time (60 seconds from what I can tell) start the car again. This also means if the immobilizer is not happy about the key you will have to wait 60 seconds for it to be willing to listen to a new key. These are personal experiences so YMMV.

If it helps any with your swap you can remove the chip from the key and remove the antenna from the cylinder then tape them together and hide it under the dash. You don't have to start the car with the immobilizer key.



I know you have your heart set on this swap but I'd ask why? You could get a non running 94 FWD EJ18 Impreza for 800$ and swap it. Then you would end up with two cars and probably spend less time in the long run.
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Old 06-05-2008, 06:15 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ciper View Post
Regarding Immobilizer -
I searched high/low and in between. From my exhaustive research which included talking to many Subaru specialists IRL there are only three ways to "bypass" the immobilizer -

1. Switch five or six wires on the ECU plug and use an 04 ECU
2a. Find somoene with a select monitor that can program a new key to the immobilizer box
2b. Find a matched set of immobilizer box and keys and then have the guy with the select monitor program it to your ECU

The ECU trusts the immobilizer black box and knows nothing of the keys. The immobilizer trusts the keys and doesn't care what ECU its talking to. There is also a timeout period for the authorized/blocked starting is in effect. Basically you can start the car, get rid of the key, and within a certain time (60 seconds from what I can tell) start the car again. This also means if the immobilizer is not happy about the key you will have to wait 60 seconds for it to be willing to listen to a new key. These are personal experiences so YMMV.

If it helps any with your swap you can remove the chip from the key and remove the antenna from the cylinder then tape them together and hide it under the dash. You don't have to start the car with the immobilizer key.



I know you have your heart set on this swap but I'd ask why? You could get a non running 94 FWD EJ18 Impreza for 800$ and swap it. Then you would end up with two cars and probably spend less time in the long run.
thanks for the info, appreciate the post, but it just kinda confirmed what i already knew. But thanks.

as for why... Because this car was a daily driver, purchashed about a year ago. the motor blew, now he has no car. he needs it back on the road. Dealership wanted like 4500 to put another 2.5rs motor in it. or we could just say screw the warranty thats still lleft on the car, spend 500 less on a sti swap, and take him to turbo and get his car back on the road as an amazing new machine. no reason to buy a 800 dollar impreza he doesnt like the looks of and have 2 broken down cars one of which he is still paying on, and still be on foot trying to pay the bills and support a family.
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Old 06-05-2008, 06:50 PM   #4
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I would be impressed if you can pull the swap off for only $4500. There are going to be unexpected expenses. What about that bracket thats missing, or the gasket you forgot you needed. Did you buy a new clutch? Does the budget include all the fluids? What about a fuel pump? Are you swapping cross members? Will your power steering lines work? Did you get new valve cover gaskets, cam/crank seals, rear main seal, timing belt + tensioner, spark plugs, radiator, hoses, ac recharge? I'd say add at least 1000 if not more!

But otherwise good luck. You and him will learn so much about the car and feel proud to do the work yourself.
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Old 06-05-2008, 07:59 PM   #5
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nevermind

Last edited by DZnutz; 06-08-2008 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 06-05-2008, 09:58 PM   #6
ciper
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You know... If its a CAN car then disregard my information. On the CAN cars the information is stored on the BIU so I don't know how that changes things. A workaround for them with the assistance of the new laptop based Select Monitor might be able to help.
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Old 06-05-2008, 10:14 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ciper View Post
I would be impressed if you can pull the swap off for only $4500. There are going to be unexpected expenses. What about that bracket thats missing, or the gasket you forgot you needed. Did you buy a new clutch? Does the budget include all the fluids? What about a fuel pump? Are you swapping cross members? Will your power steering lines work? Did you get new valve cover gaskets, cam/crank seals, rear main seal, timing belt + tensioner, spark plugs, radiator, hoses, ac recharge? I'd say add at least 1000 if not more!

But otherwise good luck. You and him will learn so much about the car and feel proud to do the work yourself.
pulling it off for 4500 wont happen, for the simple facts of having to buy the brand new turbo parts to make the turbo work on a non turbo car. but motor for motor. 4k is cheaper than 4500 for turbo vs non turbo. and flat out a better deal. we have already spent 200 bucks on a down pipe and intake. we need to spend another 300 on a front mount intercooler because of the non turbo hood. so theres 500 bucks right there, were already up to 4500. plus yes the rs clutch wont be strong enough. but working for a shop. i can get a clutch at cost. so that wont be that exspensive, not going for anything crazy. just stock. maybe even a slightly weaker wrx clutch for the fact, it would be better to have the clutch go rather than the RS tranny go.

this motor is out of a 06 sti with 20k miles!! Fully assembled and ready to go. why in the world would it need any gaskets, seals, belts, spark plugs, ac recharge or anything like that. its all still brand new. its hardly even broke in yet lol.

yes were swaping cross members, you have too. or it wont clear the downpipe, were also swapping steering racks. fluids are not going to be that exspensive. maybe 50 bucks at max. i think the only fluid we will have to pay for is oil.

Nothing should be missing like brackets or whatnot because its all on the car right now. its not gonna magically disappear. So not worried about that either. Ive got everything like that covered, the only thing that was causing concern was the imobilizer system. but i think i have that covered as well now. i just havnt figure out how much its going to cost yet. there obviously isnt a way to by pass it like i was hoping too. so looks like its going to cost more money. But oh well all part of it.

this isnt the first suby swap ive done before, just the most electronically inclined swap ive had to deal with.
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Old 06-05-2008, 10:43 PM   #8
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have you done a compression test on the motor? how do you know its fine internally?

you WILL need an AC recharge. how do you expect to get the bulkhead harness in without disconnecting and removing the heater/AC core?
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Old 06-05-2008, 10:44 PM   #9
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I think you would be interested in reading this
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/ecu-tuni...and-ready.html

Also post 4 of this http://www.romraider.com/forum/post2...bilizer#p28511

Quote:
pulling it off for 4500 wont happen, for the simple facts of having to buy the brand new turbo parts to make the turbo work on a non turbo car. but motor for motor. 4k is cheaper than 4500 for turbo vs non turbo. and flat out a better deal.
I'm confused by what you said. Turbo a non turbo car? I never said to turbo a non turbo car or get another NA engine.

Last edited by ciper; 06-05-2008 at 11:18 PM.
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Old 06-05-2008, 11:44 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DZnutz View Post
have you done a compression test on the motor? how do you know its fine internally?

you WILL need an AC recharge. how do you expect to get the bulkhead harness in without disconnecting and removing the heater/AC core?
i bought it from silverline automotive, im sure some of you have heard of htem. Leo is a good guy, his stuff is garunteed, so i know it works. thats the last thing im worried about.

thanks for the link on iwsti. ill have to bust out the scanner to get that vin, and hopefully my local dealer wont have a problem with flashing the ecu for me and getting me new keys.

Last edited by STIKindaGUY; 06-05-2008 at 11:57 PM.
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Old 06-05-2008, 11:49 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ciper View Post

I'm confused by what you said. Turbo a non turbo car? I never said to turbo a non turbo car or get another NA engine.

oh, and what i ment was. no your right were not going to come in at less than 4500 dollars. for the main reason, were taking a naturally none turbo car (2.5rs) and turning it into a turbo car. So it needs either a front mount intercooler or a turbo hood with scoop so the top mount can function. it needs the turbo cross member to clear the down pipe. it needs a downpipe, and it needs an intake for a turbo motor.

we got the turbo cross member with the swap, but we still need a fmic/turbo hood, down pipe, and intake. after buying the intake and downpipe, and knowing the cost of a fmic (will be ordered when we have the 300 bucks for it, cuz its cheaper than a hood) the price alone just getting hte parts to make a turbo motor function in a non turbo car already pushed the cost over the 4500 of replacing the motor with another stock non turbo motor.

so yes i know it was going to cost more in the long run... but over all its a better deal. and the price of the sti motor swapped in was cheaper than the price of the 2.5rs motor technically. if i didnt have the factors of needing parts to change a non turbo car into a turbo one.
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Old 06-10-2008, 03:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DZnutz View Post
have you done a compression test on the motor? how do you know its fine internally?

you WILL need an AC recharge. how do you expect to get the bulkhead harness in without disconnecting and removing the heater/AC core?
we have an AC recharge at the shop... we got that one covered too.
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Old 06-10-2008, 04:33 PM   #13
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i dont get why you didnt just get a rs long block and put it in.
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Old 06-10-2008, 07:27 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxpunk View Post
i dont get why you didnt just get a rs long block and put it in.
because if i were to do that i wouldve just let the dealer do it to keep the warranty, but since that woulve cost me 4500, why not just buy the sti motor for 4000 and do it myself??
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Old 06-11-2008, 10:39 AM   #15
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Back in January I swapped an 06 WRX drivetrain into my 05RS, and that stuff also originated from Leo at Silverline.

I ran into serious immobilizer trouble with my swap. Here's the short of what I learned from the whole ordeal: The main components of the immobilizer system are the chipped keys, antenna on the steering column, immobilizer control unit, and the ECU. The antenna in the keyring on the column is a standalone thing, and only reads the code programmed into the key. Therefore any steering column from an immobilizer equipped car will work. The keys and the immobilizer control unit, however, have to come from the same car. The antenna reads the code from the the key and sends it to the immobilizer control unit to be compared. If the codes match, then the immobilizer control unit sends the "ok to start" signal to the ECU. If the codes
don't match, the car wont start.

I could not get the car to crank and ran out of ideas so I took it to a dealership. The tech told me that the keys were not communicating with the immobilizer control unit, and thought that a new immobilizer setup (keys, control unit) would fix the problem. Keys and control unit needed to have the same code programmed into them, and in order to do that a security code was needed from subaru of america. The security code is obtained from SOA when the registered tech calls in the VIN number. The VIN came from an ECU that I got from another car after I slipped up and most likely fried the ECU that came with my swap setup. But even after programming the keys and control unit, the car still wouldn't do anything.

This is what really got me and something that no one saw coming. The Body Integrated Unit on the 06+ is a main component of a new CAN system, which keeps track of all the main parts in the car. Apparently it was very upset that I had an 06 WRX ECU and an 05 RS gauge cluster. The tech told me that the cluster needed to be VIN matching with the ECU. It must be like that to prevent someone from switching the cluster out for one reading lower miles or otherwise messing around with the car. I thought it was ridiculous but managed to get the gauge cluster from the car I got that second ECU from, the tech installed it, everything registered with the BIU, and the car started.

I hope this helps some, the full story is in the link below, decent info starts around post #20
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1429610
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Old 06-11-2008, 02:59 PM   #16
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I hope I don't run into this being that it's an 05 harness and ECU but thanks for the advise... I'll know where to turn if this thing doesnt work
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Old 06-11-2008, 05:17 PM   #17
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LightningXC20 Thank you for the post. I agree totally with your first two paragraphs since I experienced essentially the same things with my recent swap. Going forward experiences like yours will help MANY people. I know when I was researching immobilizer problems there was VERY little information.

I think the CAN issue is currently only specific to non STI swaps. From what I have heard the 04-07 STI doesn't have CAN (yet.....)
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Old 06-11-2008, 06:37 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majik ninja View Post
because if i were to do that i wouldve just let the dealer do it to keep the warranty, but since that woulve cost me 4500, why not just buy the sti motor for 4000 and do it myself??
some warranty that is. im sure if u looked around u could of found a block for $500 or somethin'
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Old 06-11-2008, 09:51 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxpunk View Post
im sure if u looked around u could of found a block for $500 or somethin'
No. Most of the 2.5 blocks that are out of cars have rod knock or are warped/cracked. The cheapest working set you can find reliably are the JDM engines on ebay which need to be tapped for the EGR port.

On a side note you might be surprised how many Forester/Outback/RS there are for sale with an EJ22 shortblock installed without the buyers knowledge....
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Old 06-14-2008, 07:48 PM   #20
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Just curious, when are you getting started on this? Also did you say you're using an 05 STi harness and ECU?
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Old 06-15-2008, 03:42 AM   #21
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were pretty much done already actually.

and were still trying to figure out if we have a 04 or 05 harness and ecu or what. So were down to the wiring. Should be running soon. im going to figure out what year our stuff is from here very shortly and get things on the road.

heres a build thread.

http://www.rs25.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81698
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Old 06-19-2014, 09:03 PM   #22
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Did you find a way to start the engine?
I am with the same problem than you, I bought a Subaru WRX engine to assembly in my old beetle and I found the imobilizer system in my harness.
I donīt have the key, steering column ring and cluster....

I am thinking to buy after market ECU, but my harness is almost done...

BIG TROUBLE!!
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